The end is near

[MoonShadow]

Selfsufficient communities within Dunbar's Number are always nuclear, related by blood.

While that is generally true, it's not absolutely true.  There have been some very real 'intentional communites' that have come together with only a common idea, and did fine.  Still, your opinion seems valid here, as any community with any staying power is certain to develop said blood relations over time, regardless of how they start out.

But the civilizing of the homines sapientes destroyed these nuclear communities and replaced them with a Society (organised violence). To rebuild them would be a long, painfull process. Even in this forum you'll find collectivists only: trade-collectivists (homo oeconomicus), education-collectivists, progress-collectivists, capital-collectivists etc., but zero people who are interested in freedom and selfsufficiency.

Once again, you have a strange notion of both "society" and of "collectivists", IMHO.

[Raize]

This thread is ultra depressing.

Even if the natural course of things has shown us that the powers that be are corrupt, can't we replace them with others that are honest? At some point "society" will start again, regardless of how much doom and gloom takes place, so I suppose my question is, do we really have to just give up entirely? Can't we just replace the trust using Bitcoin? There are plenty of people here on the forums I could say I "trust", and we even have a system for recording it, too.

Even if the elite aren't worth saving, isn't society itself worth it?

[Anenome5]

This thread is ultra depressing.

Even if the natural course of things has shown us that the powers that be are corrupt, can't we replace them with others that are honest?

This is the trap of thinking we can hire better politicians.

The reason the outcome is always the same isn't because of good or bad people in politics necessarily, but rather that the system has constraints and incentives built into it, and this is why politicians tend to act as they do, and this won't change unless the incentives on politicians are changed, and that can only happen by a completely structural change in the system, by something radical like abandoning democracy. Trying merely to elect benevolent masters doesn't change the fact that they are being continually given illegitimate and arbitrary power over everyone. That they haven't yet chosen to create a total tyranny with the power given to them is purely due to momentum and tradition, and is slowly chipped away at every year and every election and every crisis.

We have a political system which is predicated on communalistic principles and thus tends towards communalism over time, regardless of the people running the system the structure itself is communalistic and will continue to produce communalist outcomes as time goes on. Isn't that after all why we went from Social Security to Obamacare. There was no major legal change needed in the constitution to make that happen, only the collection of enough political power and will to force it through.

At some point "society" will start again, regardless of how much doom and gloom takes place, so I suppose my question is, do we really have to just give up entirely?

Course not, but if you have a system falling off a cliff you can either try to save it and risk going down with it, most likely, or you can start a new society elsewhere. When Rome fell other societies were still on the way up, naturally.

Can't we just replace the trust using Bitcoin? There are plenty of people here on the forums I could say I "trust", and we even have a system for recording it, too.

Even if the elite aren't worth saving, isn't society itself worth it?

Society is, sure, we derive many benefits from associating together, naturally. But it doesn't have to be in any one place. People have this attachment to the idea of America, but that idea is in today's world largely an anachronism. "Home of the free?" Hardly.

[DPoS]

At some point "society" will start again, regardless of how much doom and gloom takes place, so I suppose my question is, do we really have to just give up entirely?
Course not, but if you have a system falling off a cliff you can either try to save it and risk going down with it, most likely, or you can start a new society elsewhere. When Rome fell other societies were still on the way up, naturally.

There is no correction without debt jubilee and a banishment on usury

JFK was America's last hope... Andrew Jackson was the last true American hero

[NewLiberty]

JFK was America's last hope... Andrew Jackson was the last true American hero

JFK:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_11110

Andrew Jackson; the only president to abolish the Central Bank and the only president who got rid of the national debt:
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/ajveto01.asp

Satoshi is a global hero.

[marcus_of_augustus]

This thread is ultra depressing.

Even if the natural course of things has shown us that the powers that be are corrupt, can't we replace them with others that are honest? At some point "society" will start again, regardless of how much doom and gloom takes place, so I suppose my question is, do we really have to just give up entirely? Can't we just replace the trust using Bitcoin? There are plenty of people here on the forums I could say I "trust", and we even have a system for recording it, too.

Even if the elite aren't worth saving, isn't society itself worth it?

No, this has many elements of wrong thinking in it also. When the system becomes so corrupted and complex that it has to coerce and compulse to get work and effort out of individuals to contribute then the only action of defiance left is to dis-engage completely. Working within the dysfunctional system to make it better is actually only making things worse and prolonging the collapse and necessary carthartic events that will allow the new system to begin and rebuild.

It will only be when a large enough percentage of individuals take it into their minds and hearts that the collapse is a necessary evil we must go through before will it happen. We are now stuck in a twilight zone where there are still enough committed and enamoured with the bad old ways to prevent letting it go but a portion has awoken and see the way to future. We can't do much but wake others up to the necessity of the collapse and wait, when the threshold is reached it will be like a switch has been flipped and then no one will even remember what it was like now. Take a look at the events in Eastern Europe 1989 for how quickly the mindset of whole societies can change in weeks when the threshold of the wall of denial is breached.

Order through chaos.

[Zarathustra]

This thread is ultra depressing.

Even if the natural course of things has shown us that the powers that be are corrupt, can't we replace them with others that are honest? At some point "society" will start again, regardless of how much doom and gloom takes place, so I suppose my question is, do we really have to just give up entirely? Can't we just replace the trust using Bitcoin? There are plenty of people here on the forums I could say I "trust", and we even have a system for recording it, too.

Even if the elite aren't worth saving, isn't society itself worth it?

The functional nuclear communities have been replaced by the dysfunctional society (collectivism/organised violence). Why should it be worth saving? The society itself is the problem and therefore the overcoming of it is the solution. It's that simple.
The End of the Citizen (who is a cartoon of the human) is the rebirth of the real human.

[HollowIP]

People just need to pull their heads out their asses. We can't just run off and complain about what other people are doing constantly. We all put an impression and intent on the Universe every waking (and perhaps unconscious) second. I know I'm guilty of not trying my hardest, and I'm sure everyone else here is too. Shit is just plain fucked up in the world because everyone has the same damn attitude towards everything. Everyone is void of hope, glued to some mysterious belief, and avoiding anything 'real' about the world.

We bitch about how ugly the world is becoming, then throw trash on the floor.
We say its sad that people starve, then we order fast food.
We say money sucks, then get sucked into a different currency.
We say people are mean, but then act completely hostile to new faces.

We have the power to change, it's just that we don't.

[arbitrage001]

Andrew Jackson; the only president to abolish the Central Bank and the only president who got rid of the national debt:

He is also the first president to introduce spoiled system in a major way (aka crony government appointee).

[lophie]

Another guy realising this......   Welcome to the party. Sit down. Get some bitcoins and popcorn. Lets watch the world burn together. Then lets rebuild it without all the shit the previous generations imposed on us.

[triib4l]

BITCOIN FOR president, i love BITCOIN

[DPoS]

Andrew Jackson; the only president to abolish the Central Bank and the only president who got rid of the national debt:

He is also the first president to introduce spoiled system in a major way (aka crony government appointee).

facts or sit down....  and whatever facts you have let's test them against previous presidents. (since you also say first)

your move

[Raize]

Well, Andrew Jackson was responsible for the Trail of Tears... But I would still agree he was the best president for the right decision to end the central bank. Someone in the media once asked him after he was out of office what the best thing was that he accomplished in his administration, and before he could finish the question, Jackson interrupted him with "I killed the Bank!"

We need politicians that understand who the enemy actually is in this country. I don't think I'm willing to give up on the country itself. We just need to hold them actually accountable for breaking the law, something the Judicial Branch is sitting on its ass on right now for no clear reason. Maybe there needs to be 12 randomly-appointed "jurors" in this country that can unequivocally vote to fire any government employee for any reason whatsoever. It seems the democracy portion, the legislators, are now fully-corrupt, ala what Alexis de Tocqueville feared could happen with a Tyranny of the Majority. No one questions the Iron Triangle of bureaucrats, lobbyists, and lawyers, or realizes they work towards destroying the country instead of restoring it.

I guess I blame fundamentalism whether through God or in the name of equality. The only reason democracy worked in America for so long was because all the different Christian denominations hated each other. Once that stopped happening, seemingly around the time of Roe vs. Wade, they consolidated, then the left formed coalitions in opposition, and we have what we have today... This extremely absurd idea that the entire nation has to pursue some specified "moral good" be it "God" or "Equality", with next to nothing in the way of actually pursuing liberty for those subject to its laws.

[juca]

Don't worry, bitcoin come to rescue 

+1

[DPoS]

Well, Andrew Jackson was responsible for the Trail of Tears... But I would still agree he was the best president for the right decision to end the central bank. Someone in the media once asked him after he was out of office what the best thing was that he accomplished in his administration, and before he could finish the question, Jackson interrupted him with "I killed the Bank!"

We need politicians that understand who the enemy actually is in this country. I don't think I'm willing to give up on the country itself. We just need to hold them actually accountable for breaking the law, something the Judicial Branch is sitting on its ass on right now for no clear reason. Maybe there needs to be 12 randomly-appointed "jurors" in this country that can unequivocally vote to fire any government employee for any reason whatsoever. It seems the democracy portion, the legislators, are now fully-corrupt, ala what Alexis de Tocqueville feared could happen with a Tyranny of the Majority. No one questions the Iron Triangle of bureaucrats, lobbyists, and lawyers, or realizes they work towards destroying the country instead of restoring it.

I guess I blame fundamentalism whether through God or in the name of equality. The only reason democracy worked in America for so long was because all the different Christian denominations hated each other. Once that stopped happening, seemingly around the time of Roe vs. Wade, they consolidated, then the left formed coalitions in opposition, and we have what we have today... This extremely absurd idea that the entire nation has to either be defended for some specified "moral good" be it "God" or "Equality", with next to nothing in the way of actually pursuing liberty for those subject to its laws.

You need to read up more.. it takes a few years but if you study history, the expansion and demise of empires you will see where the rot comes from

there is a mighty reason why the christians banned usury for as long as they could...

The best cliff notes I ever read is this passage.. explaining how war & vices are controlled by finance to bring down nations..   from Rome to now you see the pattern over and over

"The mode of government which is the most propitious for the full development of the class war, is the demagogic regime which is equally favorable to the two fold intrigues of Finance (usury) and Revolution. When this struggle is let loose in a violent form, the leaders of the masses are kings, but money is god: the demagogues are the masters of the passions of the mob, but the financiers are the master of the demagogues, and it is in the last resort the widely spread riches of the country, rural property, real estate, which, for as long as they last, must pay for the movement. When the demagogues prosper amongst the ruins of social and political order, and overthrown traditions, gold is the only power which counts, it is the measure of everything; it can do everything and reigns without hindrance in opposition to all countries, to the detriment of the city of the nation, or of the empire which are finally ruined. In doing this, do not financiers work against themselves? It may be asked: in destroying the established order do not they destroy the source of all riches? This is perhaps true in the end; but whilst states which count their years by human generations, are obliged in order to insure their existence to conceive and conduct a far-sighted policy in view of a distant future, Finance which gets its living from what is present and tangible, always follows a short-sighted policy, in view of rapid results and success without troubling itself about the morrows of history." (G. Batault, Le probleme juif, p. 257; The Secret Powers Behind Revolution, by Vicomte Leon De Poncins, pp. 135-136)