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Operatr
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June 24, 2013, 10:01:41 AM |
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Quantum cryptography. Problem solved
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Lauda
Legendary
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Activity: 2674
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Terminated.
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June 24, 2013, 04:58:09 PM |
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I wouldn't worry if it presented a risk, developers could patch it up with something more resistant to quantum computers.
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"The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks" 😼 Bitcoin Core ( onion)
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tacotime
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Activity: 1484
Merit: 1005
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June 24, 2013, 05:42:58 PM |
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The search space for private keys via ECDSA is reduced from 2^128 to 2^64 using Shor's algorithm if I recall correctly, so not really.
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XMR: 44GBHzv6ZyQdJkjqZje6KLZ3xSyN1hBSFAnLP6EAqJtCRVzMzZmeXTC2AHKDS9aEDTRKmo6a6o9r9j86pYfhCWDkKjbtcns
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RoadToHell
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June 24, 2013, 06:11:14 PM |
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I want to pre-order USB powered Quavalon mining rig that do 1PH/s Is Butterfly Labs taking preorders for those yet? No, but I am. Send your share bids to the address in my profile. Due to the Heisenberg uncertainty principle, the more we check on the delivery date the harder it will be to lock it down. Right now delivery will be at some point in the future and I don't want to risk anything by trying to be more precise.
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Sam Spade: We were talking about a lot more money than this. Kasper Gutman: Yes, sir, we were, but this is genuine coin of the realm. With a dollar of this, you can buy ten dollars of talk.
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etotheipi
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Activity: 1428
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Core Armory Developer
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June 24, 2013, 06:28:36 PM |
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Unless D-Wave has changed their direction in the last 5 years (the last time I checked in with their progress), nothing they are doing actually constitutes a "real quantum computer". When I say "real," I mean one of those quantum computers that actually leverages quantum interference to solve problems, which could be used to break not just Bitcoin cryptography, but all the cryptography on which the internet is based. If this was a real problem, you can be sure that alarm bells would be ringing around the world, and for much more than just Bitcoin.
Real quantum computers aren't just faster -- they solve problems differently. Shor's algorithm takes integer factorization from O(ecuberoot(N)) on a classical computer to O(N2) on a quantum computer. This isn't just faster -- this makes a whole class of essentially-unsolvable problems, solvable (including the discrete logarithm problem on which Bitcoin crypto is based).
Yes, you can get a speedup on pure-guessing problems using Grover's algorithm -- from O(2N) to O(2N/2). That's a unique capability that QCs can exploit, but the least interesting in terms of breaking cryptosystems. Most crypto systems use key sizes big enough that even if you halved the keysize, it would still be secure. And the defense is to just double your keysizes, once, and the problem goes away. But not with Shor's algorithm -- the whole class of problems is compromised.
D-Wave has always been a joke in the world of QCs. What they are doing is cool, and they may be developing technology that is somewhat related to QCs, but they shouldn't be using the phrase "Quantum Computing" in their product name, because that terms is reserved for a whole new class of computing systems, not classical computers that use quantum bits to do things classically faster.
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bluemeanie1
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June 24, 2013, 06:44:02 PM Last edit: June 24, 2013, 07:14:03 PM by bluemeanie1 |
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Unless D-Wave has changed their direction in the last 5 years (the last time I checked in with their progress), nothing they are doing actually constitutes a "real quantum computer". When I say "real," I mean one of those quantum computers that actually leverages quantum interference to solve problems, which could be used to break not just Bitcoin cryptography, but all the cryptography on which the internet is based. If this was a real problem, you can be sure that alarm bells would be ringing around the world, and for much more than just Bitcoin.
Real quantum computers aren't just faster -- they solve problems differently. Shor's algorithm takes integer factorization from O(ecuberoot(N)) on a classical computer to O(N2) on a quantum computer. This isn't just faster -- this makes a whole class of essentially-unsolvable problems, solvable (including the discrete logarithm problem on which Bitcoin crypto is based).
Yes, you can get a speedup on pure-guessing problems using Grover's algorithm -- from O(2N) to O(2N/2). That's a unique capability that QCs can exploit, but the least interesting in terms of breaking cryptosystems. Most crypto systems use key sizes big enough that even if you halved the keysize, it would still be secure. And the defense is to just double your keysizes, once, and the problem goes away. But not with Shor's algorithm -- the whole class of problems is compromised.
D-Wave has always been a joke in the world of QCs. What they are doing is cool, and they may be developing technology that is somewhat related to QCs, but they shouldn't be using the phrase "Quantum Computing" in their product name, because that terms is reserved for a whole new class of computing systems, not classical computers that use quantum bits to do things classically faster.
etotheipi, an article I just ran into that reflects your comments here : http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=1400It's true that when you cross over into the commercial arena, you typically encounter disjoints between promises and reality. Whenever you get enough public interest in some scientific idea, eg. Quantum Computing, someone will claim to be delivering it despite it being impossible. There are projects being advertised right here in this forum, that claim even to be Open Source, that don't even come close to living up to the claims made about it. because once one slices through all the layers of ugh—the rigged comparisons, the “dramatic announcements” that mean nothing, the lazy journalists cherry-picking what they want to hear and ignoring the inconvenient bits sounds a lot like a project I know...
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jackjack
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May Bitcoin be touched by his Noodly Appendage
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June 26, 2013, 03:23:04 PM |
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Quantum computing is possible
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Own address: 19QkqAza7BHFTuoz9N8UQkryP4E9jHo4N3 - Pywallet support: 1AQDfx22pKGgXnUZFL1e4UKos3QqvRzNh5 - Bitcointalk++ script support: 1Pxeccscj1ygseTdSV1qUqQCanp2B2NMM2 Pywallet: instructions. Encrypted wallet support, export/import keys/addresses, backup wallets, export/import CSV data from/into wallet, merge wallets, delete/import addresses and transactions, recover altcoins sent to bitcoin addresses, sign/verify messages and files with Bitcoin addresses, recover deleted wallets, etc.
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defaced
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Franko is Freedom
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June 26, 2013, 08:50:19 PM |
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dooomed, dump all your btc now
:trlf:
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Lauda
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Terminated.
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June 26, 2013, 08:52:23 PM |
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dooomed, dump all your btc now
:trlf:
Dump to me @1$ each, don't worry it's a good investment the price of $ will rise by 1% psst!
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"The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks" 😼 Bitcoin Core ( onion)
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jackjack
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May Bitcoin be touched by his Noodly Appendage
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June 26, 2013, 09:12:42 PM |
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I'd take them at $20 each Beware they may contain viruses too
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Own address: 19QkqAza7BHFTuoz9N8UQkryP4E9jHo4N3 - Pywallet support: 1AQDfx22pKGgXnUZFL1e4UKos3QqvRzNh5 - Bitcointalk++ script support: 1Pxeccscj1ygseTdSV1qUqQCanp2B2NMM2 Pywallet: instructions. Encrypted wallet support, export/import keys/addresses, backup wallets, export/import CSV data from/into wallet, merge wallets, delete/import addresses and transactions, recover altcoins sent to bitcoin addresses, sign/verify messages and files with Bitcoin addresses, recover deleted wallets, etc.
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psystyle
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July 07, 2013, 11:36:48 PM |
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maybe
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QuestionAuthority
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You lead and I'll watch you walk away.
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July 07, 2013, 11:47:37 PM |
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Yes, Bitcoin is doomed so give me all your coins and run away like a little school girl that had her first period in a white skirt at the school cafeteria.
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freedomno1
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Learning the troll avoidance button :)
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July 08, 2013, 08:49:55 AM Last edit: July 09, 2013, 08:54:59 AM by freedomno1 |
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Yes, Bitcoin is doomed so give me all your coins and run away like a little school girl that had her first period in a white skirt at the school cafeteria.
So detailed Edits In: Question Authority wants to be a little girl (Moot)
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Believing in Bitcoins and it's ability to change the world
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Boussac
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e-ducat.fr
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July 08, 2013, 10:56:06 AM |
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it is both doomed and not doomed at the same time. +1 Best geek joke of the day. Then again quantum computing lends itself to easy geek jokes..
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fenican
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July 09, 2013, 02:06:38 AM |
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Nice quote from Umesh Vazirani, a professor at UC Berkeley on the D-Wave hardware:
"even if it turns out to be a true quantum computer, and even if it can be scaled to thousands of qubits, would likely not be more powerful than a cell phone"
Great skepticism out there as to whether D-Wave is doing anything truly Quantum or, rather, is just building dedicated hardware to create approximate, not exact (i.e. useless for Crypto) solutions to complex problems.
Nothing D-Wave is doing will have any effect of the strength of cryptography they are definitely NOT building general purpose quantum computers or quantum computers that can break high grade cryptography algorithms.
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Cyrus17
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July 10, 2013, 11:24:51 PM |
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No.
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kjj
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July 11, 2013, 05:16:01 AM |
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By now, there are so many threads on quantum computers that to have missed them all is simply impossible. Just typing the word "quantum" into the search box gives 28 pages of results.
We need a time out corner.
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17Np17BSrpnHCZ2pgtiMNnhjnsWJ2TMqq8 I routinely ignore posters with paid advertising in their sigs. You should too.
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StarfishPrime
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July 11, 2013, 03:08:17 PM Last edit: July 11, 2013, 04:07:04 PM by StarfishPrime |
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Quantum computing = the "hydrogen-powered car" of computer research. Always "just around the corner", lots of hype and FUD, but never quite moving beyond a technical curiosity. The only way quantum computing could generate more baseless hype is if someone ports the litecoin client to run on a D-Wave box Quantum computing will be big for many things, but cracking bitcoin keys - or running Windows 8 - are probably not two of them.
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¦ ¦ ¦¦¦ ¦¦ ¦¦¦¦ ¦¦ ¦¦¦¦ ¦ ¦¦ ¦¦¦¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦ ¦¦¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦ ¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦ ¦¦ ¦ ¦¦¦¦ ¦¦ ¦¦¦¦ ¦¦ ¦ ¦¦¦¦ ¦¦¦ ¦ ¦¦¦¦¦ ¦¦¦¦ ¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦ ¦¦¦¦¦ ¦ ¦¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦ ¦¦¦¦¦ ¦ ¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦ ¦¦¦¦ ¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦ ¦¦¦¦ ¦ ¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦ ¦¦¦ ¦¦ ¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦ ¦¦ ¦¦ ¦¦ ¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦ ¦¦ ¦ ¦ ¦¦ ¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦ ¦¦¦ ¦¦ ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦ ¦¦¦ ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦ ¦¦¦ ¦ ¦¦ ¦¦ ¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦ ¦¦¦ ¦¦ ¦¦ ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦ ¦¦¦ ¦ ¦¦ ¦¦¦ ¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦ ¦¦ ¦¦ ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦ ¦¦ ¦ ¦ ¦¦ ¦ ¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦ ¦¦ ¦ ¦¦ ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦ ¦¦ ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦ ¦¦¦ ¦ ¦¦ ¦¦ ¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦ ¦¦¦ ¦ ¦¦ ¦¦ ¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦ ¦¦¦¦ ¦ ¦¦ ¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦ ¦¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦ ¦¦
| . TorCoin.....
| ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦ | Fully Anonymous TOR-integrated Crypto ¦ Windows ¦ Linux ¦ GitHub ¦ macOS
| ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦ | . ANN THREAD | ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦ |
[/center]
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Lauda
Legendary
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Activity: 2674
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Terminated.
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July 11, 2013, 04:32:27 PM |
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Quantum computing = the "hydrogen-powered car" of computer research. Always "just around the corner", lots of hype and FUD, but never quite moving beyond a technical curiosity. The only way quantum computing could generate more baseless hype is if someone ports the litecoin client to run on a D-Wave box Quantum computing will be big for many things, but cracking bitcoin keys - or running Windows 8 - are probably not two of them. last part +1
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"The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks" 😼 Bitcoin Core ( onion)
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