150k USD startup budget. Help needed!

[kendog77]

Essentially If you had 150k to spend on bitcoin machines what would you do?

I would wait.
(i'm extremely serious).

I would buy 150k$ worth of BTC, then wait.
(i'm extremely serious too).

I wouldn't at all, not for the short term. Lot's of idiots have ignored repeated advice not to use debt to finance mining.

Do you realise what this means when companies start to deliver and the hashrate is a lot greater?

A lot of coins being sold to recoup ROI, and cover debt.

This equals a likely fall in BTC price, unless mainstream adoption causes more parties to buy.

I would be bricking myself right now if I'd got into debt for ASIC development and pre-orders.

Of course this scenario may not happen like this, but market pricing is dependant on sellers vs. buyers, and blatantly there will be a sudden rush of sellers.

There is nothing courageous about using debt in this situation, or more than one can afford to lose. Only a total idiot would be buying ASIC pre-orders with borrowed money!

$100 is a very psychological number, a milestone, it's the reason we are bouncing around it now.

Agreed. Each bitcoin was only worth 10$ at the beginning of the year, so it's not impossible for it to go back to $10 in the near term which would destroy the profitability of ASIC pre-orders paid for in USD. The $100 BTC is the main reason for the insane ASIC ROI at the moment.

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[Rora]

And what about bitfury? Arent they expected to deliver in July?

[dwdoc]

There is no difference in the logic behind investing $15,000 or $150,000 in bitcoin.

I would invest 1/4 in BTC.

I would spend 1/4 on a mining stock (e.g. ASICminer).

I would spend 1/4 on the most promising pre-order (probably currently KNCminer unless you live in Russia-then consider Bitfury/Metabank).

I would keep 1/4 in fiat and wait for the next best new opportunity to appear (bitgarden? labcoins?).

[dogie]

There is no difference in the logic behind investing $15,000 or $150,000 in bitcoin.

I would invest 1/4 in BTC.

I would spend 1/4 on a mining stock (e.g. ASICminer).

I would spend 1/4 on the most promising pre-order (probably currently KNCminer unless you live in Russia-then consider Bitfury/Metabank).

I would keep 1/4 in fiat and wait for the next best new opportunity to appear (bitgarden? labcoins?).

I don't think he is looking to gamble (relatively) on preorders. I wouldn't with that amount of money.

[Bitcoinorama]

There is no difference in the logic behind investing $15,000 or $150,000 in bitcoin.

I would invest 1/4 in BTC.

I would spend 1/4 on a mining stock (e.g. ASICminer).

I would spend 1/4 on the most promising pre-order (probably currently KNCminer unless you live in Russia-then consider Bitfury/Metabank).

I would keep 1/4 in fiat and wait for the next best new opportunity to appear (bitgarden? labcoins?).

I certainly wouldn't go anywhere near BTCGarden/Aiwill/BTCMan, the guy is a xenophobic ars*hole.

[xcrowd]

New players with better offerings will be joining the party in July.  

My advice... a little bit of patients might uncover a lot more options.

Hi guys!

I am currently in the process of planning a bitcoin mining operation. I have a start-up budget of roughly 150k USD. What do you recommend? Im not going with ANY pre-order start-up company as until such time that they prove to distribute product, Im not interested in sinking FIAT into any non established operation.

Essentially If you had 150k to spend on bitcoin machines what would you do?

Thanks. 

[Bitcoinorama]

New players with better offerings will be joining the party in July.  

My advice... a little bit of patients might uncover a lot more options.

Hi guys!

I am currently in the process of planning a bitcoin mining operation. I have a start-up budget of roughly 150k USD. What do you recommend? Im not going with ANY pre-order start-up company as until such time that they prove to distribute product, Im not interested in sinking FIAT into any non established operation.

Essentially If you had 150k to spend on bitcoin machines what would you do?

Thanks.  

No disrespect to XCrowd, we'll have to see what they have on offer, but last time they surfaced they were making some wild claims, which may well be proven, but had snatched a logo from XCrowd.com (not affiliated to them) and were using it as their own, which set alarm bells off in my mind at the time...site is totally different now though, with an original logo (presumably).

Also the owner checked out as a Muslim Lady's fashion store owner based in Birmingham, UK (definitely not a tech hub by any means), with no relevant tech experience to be seen, though he said he had Silicon Valley contacts...

[PaperClip]

And what about bitfury? Arent they expected to deliver in July?

Quote from their page: "Expected delivery date is early August, but not later that October".
Batch #1 preorder is closed, and there is no info about batch #2.
They promised to deliver full device specification in early June. There is almost July already, but no specifications provided. Only thing they can demonstrate are chip prototypes, which they have promised to ship to anybody interested. But I have not heard any feedback about them yet. Basically, they now are developing electronic board for these chips, software, run into overheat problems, etc. Like a BFL last year. So, in half a year they probably will provide something.
Its a something like Russian KNCminer, but with unknown info about next batch order date and problems with delivery (they do not ship outside Russia, you have to find somebody who will pass your order to them and ship it to you). Now I would just stick with KNC.

[xcrowd]

These concerns have already been addressed on the thread linked below.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=192519.0

FYI it's my clothing line, but that doesn't matter anyways since I'm no longer involved with it.

Extraordinary claims requires extraordinary evidence and we'd be happy to
provide it once we're ready. Not that we plan to take on customers pre-order funds.

New players with better offerings will be joining the party in July.  

My advice... a little bit of patients might uncover a lot more options.

Hi guys!

I am currently in the process of planning a bitcoin mining operation. I have a start-up budget of roughly 150k USD. What do you recommend? Im not going with ANY pre-order start-up company as until such time that they prove to distribute product, Im not interested in sinking FIAT into any non established operation.

Essentially If you had 150k to spend on bitcoin machines what would you do?

Thanks. 

No disrespect to XCrowd, we'll have to see what they have on offer, but last time they surfaced they were making some wild claims, which may well be proven, but had snatched a logo from XCrowd.com (not affiliated to them) and were using it as their own, which set alarm bells off in my mind at the time...

Also the owner checked out as a Muslim Lady's fashion store owner, though he said he had Silicon Valley contacts.

[Bitcoinorama]

These concerns have already been addressed on the thread linked below.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=192519.0

FYI it's my clothing line, but that doesn't matter anyways since I'm no longer involved with it.

Extraordinary claims requires extraordinary evidence and we'd be happy to
provide it once we're ready. Not that we plan to take on customers pre-order funds.

New players with better offerings will be joining the party in July.  

My advice... a little bit of patients might uncover a lot more options.

Hi guys!

I am currently in the process of planning a bitcoin mining operation. I have a start-up budget of roughly 150k USD. What do you recommend? Im not going with ANY pre-order start-up company as until such time that they prove to distribute product, Im not interested in sinking FIAT into any non established operation.

Essentially If you had 150k to spend on bitcoin machines what would you do?

Thanks. 

No disrespect to XCrowd, we'll have to see what they have on offer, but last time they surfaced they were making some wild claims, which may well be proven, but had snatched a logo from XCrowd.com (not affiliated to them) and were using it as their own, which set alarm bells off in my mind at the time...

Also the owner checked out as a Muslim Lady's fashion store owner, though he said he had Silicon Valley contacts.

Cool buddy, as I said, no disrespect, keen to see a UK player on board, but the forum need transparency as to who they are dealing with. You made some grand claims before...

[xcrowd]

If I was bothered I'd ask what these grand claims were since we haven't claimed anything yet. When we do; we'll be more than happy to assist in reasonable due diligence inquiries and invite others who aren't vested in KNC and etc to meet us at the trade shows we attend.

These concerns have already been addressed on the thread linked below.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=192519.0

FYI it's my clothing line, but that doesn't matter anyways since I'm no longer involved with it.

Extraordinary claims requires extraordinary evidence and we'd be happy to
provide it once we're ready. Not that we plan to take on customers pre-order funds.

New players with better offerings will be joining the party in July.  

My advice... a little bit of patients might uncover a lot more options.

Hi guys!

I am currently in the process of planning a bitcoin mining operation. I have a start-up budget of roughly 150k USD. What do you recommend? Im not going with ANY pre-order start-up company as until such time that they prove to distribute product, Im not interested in sinking FIAT into any non established operation.

Essentially If you had 150k to spend on bitcoin machines what would you do?

Thanks.  

No disrespect to XCrowd, we'll have to see what they have on offer, but last time they surfaced they were making some wild claims, which may well be proven, but had snatched a logo from XCrowd.com (not affiliated to them) and were using it as their own, which set alarm bells off in my mind at the time...

Also the owner checked out as a Muslim Lady's fashion store owner, though he said he had Silicon Valley contacts.

Cool buddy, as I said, no disrespect, keen to see a UK player on board, but the forum need transparency as to who they are dealing with. You made some grand claims before...

[Rora]

Care to provide some information to those who are interested?

For now it seems I will be holding onto my lovely FIAT until such time someone can convince me that they have a good product.

Thank you for all the feedback, really appreciate it.

[Bitcoinorama]

I was polite, but I'll take that as a snipe.

So what if I have a vested interest in KnC?! I've been encouraging wherever else is legitimate, and have a 100% success rate at calling out scams so far.

I'm not saying you are a scam, yet. I am saying I'd genuinely like to see a UK entrant 'Abdi Mahamud'.

As for your grand claims, you're a retail clothing re-seller (apparently now an ex-retail clothing re-seller) from Birmingham that, in your own words have promised;

- 5-6 months when working on 28nm ASIC designs and 3d packaging ip cores.

- Sub $1, 000 products will be in the same range of hashing power as Avalon and BFL current releases.

- Products that will return a ROI in 30-45 days depending on the network.

By all means deflect any interest I have in seeing a genuinely competitive ASIC development environment proven to exist without scamming other members, by alleging my sole allegiance is to that of one of the few credible entrants. Which is total bullshit.

I rate Bitfury, I admire Yifu, I'm happy to see BFL customers finally start to receive goods. Your above claims are wild to say the least unless you have a real engineering firm working with you on this. I don't see where you experience has forged those connections. Prove that to us if you want investment, and don't snub me from a trade show because I'm keen to see the scams with ASICs laid to rest!

You were happy to speak with me a couple of months backs when I expressed interest. You appeared on the scene around the same time as asicrigs.com, asic-technologies.com, and Cedartec. All of which I busted. If you've got nothing to hide, I'll happily write a positive report to the contrary, just like I did when I attended KnC's open day as long as the evidence stacks up. I certainly did not to that for KnC, wasn't paid by KnC, it was part if my iterative process in deciding to proceed with a vested interest, and I wanted to give something back to the Bitcointalk forum after becoming excited with what they had to offer, and likewise would be the same for you, as I live in the UK. Besides which, my attention to detail has kinda gone down pretty well with the community here...

Scams are still very much prevalent, the following appears to be asicrigs.com all over again. They were also UK based;  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=241380.0

If I was bothered I'd ask what these grand claims were since we haven't claimed anything yet. When we do; we'll be more than happy to assist in reasonable due diligence inquiries and invite others who aren't vested in KNC and etc to meet us at the trade shows we attend.

These concerns have already been addressed on the thread linked below.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=192519.0

FYI it's my clothing line, but that doesn't matter anyways since I'm no longer involved with it.

Extraordinary claims requires extraordinary evidence and we'd be happy to
provide it once we're ready. Not that we plan to take on customers pre-order funds.

New players with better offerings will be joining the party in July.  

My advice... a little bit of patients might uncover a lot more options.

Hi guys!

I am currently in the process of planning a bitcoin mining operation. I have a start-up budget of roughly 150k USD. What do you recommend? Im not going with ANY pre-order start-up company as until such time that they prove to distribute product, Im not interested in sinking FIAT into any non established operation.

Essentially If you had 150k to spend on bitcoin machines what would you do?

Thanks.  

No disrespect to XCrowd, we'll have to see what they have on offer, but last time they surfaced they were making some wild claims, which may well be proven, but had snatched a logo from XCrowd.com (not affiliated to them) and were using it as their own, which set alarm bells off in my mind at the time...

Also the owner checked out as a Muslim Lady's fashion store owner, though he said he had Silicon Valley contacts.

Cool buddy, as I said, no disrespect, keen to see a UK player on board, but the forum need transparency as to who they are dealing with. You made some grand claims before...

[blackarrow]

Hi!

You can join us if you want to make a new ASIC. We are currently developing one and would accept investors.

PM us if you're interested.

Regards!

[Trongersoll]

The power of ASICs over GPUs is the Elec. that the GPUs use. Find a crazy stupid, almost free source of Elec. and video cards could more than hold their own against ASICs and could be in service right now. Think outside the box.

[xcrowd]

I'd genuinely like to see a UK entrant 'Abdi Mohammed'.

Quite a bit underhand there. By the way, that wasn't meant as a snipe but that got under your skin for some reason.

Working on anything below 65nm isn't a garage operation and we worked that out quite a long time ago. Most the R&D is currently being outsourced to a design partner with close ties to the foundry we'll be using.

All that matters is time to market and price and with the added value of a lack of a risky pre-order deposit we haven't got much to worry about.

[Bitcoinorama]

Personally my belief, and I've said this several times, but as it requires some start-up capital to afford a developer. Be creative and think of a way to offer products and services (does not have to be mining related) that will accept Bitcoins as payment.

That is still very much virgin territory with respect to mainstream acceptance, get that first mover advantage in place and help increase and stabilise Bitcoins value as a currency. You could potentially profit wayy more than becoming another ASIC player.

Look at what other websites exist online that except soley fiat and look for opportunities and improvements in having such ideas embrace crypticurrencies...

[cp1]

How did you get $150k without having any idea what you were going to do with it?  Pay me some % as a consultant and I'll give you some advice.

[Bitcoinorama]

I'd genuinely like to see a UK entrant 'Abdi Mohammed'.

Quite a bit underhand there. By the way, that wasn't meant as a snipe but that got under your skin for some reason.

Working on anything below 65nm isn't a garage operation and we worked that out quite a long time ago. Most the R&D is currently being outsourced to a design partner with close ties to the foundry we'll be using.

All that matters is time to market and price and with the added value of a lack of a risky pre-order deposit we haven't got much to worry about.

Who was underhand, me, or you? I know I wasn't. I just stated facts. You just alluded to me having a less than innocent intention, which is crap, and totally underhand. Follow my posting history. I started out on this forum busting scams. There's nothing to bust with KnC, so don't cry foul play on my part there. Me visiting them is just my commitment to due diligence on my part. My sharing of that info, is nothing more than I attended and others have a right to know what went down. Nothing untoward there, they have talent, fact. I'd sure as hell visit you before investing, because you're appearing on this scene as a nobody. If you're not a scam, there is nothing to worry about, and you'll undoubtedly do your best to provide evidence to the contrary. Just be aware that people are jaded with BS, and no one knows who you are, or your intentions. You've yet to meet Phinneaus Gage and have him scrutinise you...

28nm, in a few months, with sub $1,000 products is a bold claim from Industry experts, let alone a rag trader from Birmingham. Why do you have an issue with me questioning that?

If you think that's someone being anything less than cautious, I suggest you be less sensitive, because any proposal you follow through here will be torn to pieces and every minor aspect questioned. Your partners better be comfortable with that as well, as people are going to want to know everything you care to share that is not sensitive competitively speaking.

Good luck, genuinely I want to see more European representation, and being British as well am waiting with anticipation and an open mind...

[xcrowd]

I genuinely wasn't hinting at anything. I think the amount of hours you've spent on this forum is clouding your judgement. We'll welcome the scrutiny once we start marketing anything. The reason why I've invested in our own chip development is simply because none of the previous suppliers were up to the standards we usually expect in the world outside of Bitcoin.

I'd genuinely like to see a UK entrant 'Abdi Mohammed'.

Quite a bit underhand there. By the way, that wasn't meant as a snipe but that got under your skin for some reason.

Working on anything below 65nm isn't a garage operation and we worked that out quite a long time ago. Most the R&D is currently being outsourced to a design partner with close ties to the foundry we'll be using.

All that matters is time to market and price and with the added value of a lack of a risky pre-order deposit we haven't got much to worry about.

Who was underhand, me, or you? I know I wasn't. I just stated facts. You just alluded to me having a less than innocent intention, which is crap, and totally underhand. Follow my posting history. I started out on this forum busting scams. There's nothing to bust with KnC, so don't cry foul play on my part there. Me visiting them is just my commitment to due diligence on my part. My sharing of that info, is nothing more than I attended and others have a right to know what went down. Nothing untoward there, they have talent, fact. I'd sure as hell visit you before investing, because you're appearing on this scene as a nobody. If you're not a scam, there is nothing to worry about, and you'll undoubtedly do your best to provide evidence to the contrary. Just be aware that people are jaded with BS, and no one knows who you are, or your intentions. You've yet to meet Phinneaus Gage and have him scrutinise you...

28nm, in a few months, with sub $1,000 products is a bold claim from Industry experts, let alone a rag trader from Birmingham. Why do you have an issue with me questioning that?

If you think that's someone being anything less than cautious, I suggest you be less sensitive, because any proposal you follow through here will be torn to pieces and every minor aspect questioned. Your partners better be comfortable with that as well, as people are going to want to know everything you care to share that is not sensitive competitively speaking.

Good luck, genuinely...