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Author Topic: CanaryInTheMine refuses to pay for won auction  (Read 3428 times)
vortex1878
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June 24, 2013, 04:09:21 PM
 #1

CanaryInTheMine refuses to pay despite him being the winning bidder of my auction:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=235864.0

Requesting a scammer tag for CanaryInTheMine.

Thanks.
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Korbman
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June 24, 2013, 04:14:19 PM
Last edit: June 24, 2013, 04:24:24 PM by Korbman
 #2

CanaryInTheMine refuses to pay despite him being the winning bidder of my auction:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=235864.0

Requesting a scammer tag for CanaryInTheMine.

Thanks.

Did you send him the codes?

Good god man, just use escrow..it's really not that big of a deal if you're legit.

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June 24, 2013, 04:26:02 PM
 #3

CanaryInTheMine refuses to pay despite him being the winning bidder of my auction:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=235864.0

Requesting a scammer tag for CanaryInTheMine.

Thanks.

Did you send him the codes?

He shouldn't have to send the codes first. Canary should be paying vortex first and then the codes would be sent. That's how it should work. The offer of escrow has been noted, so if there's problems why is it not being used? Not honouring your side of the deal is just stupid.

Scammer? No.
Making a mountain of a molehill and not going through a deal just because there's a small disagreement on who goes first? Yes.

Both of you are just as bad as each other, vortex for creating a scam report when there was no actual scam and for something that could have been dealt with over PM and a mutual agreement on escrow and Canary for not honouring his side of the deal just because he doesn't want to go first. Use escrow if you don't want to go first, it's not hard.

[AUTOBUY] [CHEAP] $2 Account Shop -> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4611147
Rampion
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June 24, 2013, 04:29:40 PM
 #4

CanaryInTheMine refuses to pay despite him being the winning bidder of my auction:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=235864.0

Requesting a scammer tag for CanaryInTheMine.

Thanks.

Sorry, but check this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=238474.0

You will learn that in these forums auctions are nothing but "a device to assist in price negotiation" (literal quote from the admin). You can aritificially raise the price with alt-accounts (aka "shill bidding"), not honor bids, not honor winners, etc. etc. etc. and you will never get a scammer tag.

The only way for CanaryInTheMine to get a scammer tag would be him to have signed a binding GPG contract with you, stating that he would have honored his bids if he won.

Sounds like a joke? Unfortunately I agree but these are not my rules, but the official forum's policy regarding auctions and scammer tags.

Rawted
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June 24, 2013, 04:44:11 PM
 #5

just send canary the damn codes and get paid. these stupid bfl discount codes are near worthless now (due to the thousands being dumped, and the fact that there are no chips to sell at the moment, and the fact you have to order 100 chips min when they are available).

You delaying your end of the deal just causes their price to drop even more.
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June 24, 2013, 05:09:03 PM
 #6

CanaryInTheMine refuses to pay despite him being the winning bidder of my auction:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=235864.0

Requesting a scammer tag for CanaryInTheMine.

Thanks.

Sorry, but check this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=238474.0

You will learn that in these forums auctions are nothing but "a device to assist in price negotiation" (literal quote from the admin). You can aritificially raise the price with alt-accounts (aka "shill bidding"), not honor bids, not honor winners, etc. etc. etc. and you will never get a scammer tag.

The only way for CanaryInTheMine to get a scammer tag would be him to have signed a binding GPG contract with you, stating that he would have honored his bids if he won.

Sounds like a joke? Unfortunately I agree but these are not my rules, but the official forum's policy regarding auctions and scammer tags.

   +101  It's mornin'!  Mmmm, smell that coffee.
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June 24, 2013, 05:29:14 PM
 #7

CanaryInTheMine refuses to pay despite him being the winning bidder of my auction:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=235864.0

Requesting a scammer tag for CanaryInTheMine.

Thanks.

Sorry, but check this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=238474.0

You will learn that in these forums auctions are nothing but "a device to assist in price negotiation" (literal quote from the admin). You can aritificially raise the price with alt-accounts (aka "shill bidding"), not honor bids, not honor winners, etc. etc. etc. and you will never get a scammer tag.

The only way for CanaryInTheMine to get a scammer tag would be him to have signed a binding GPG contract with you, stating that he would have honored his bids if he won.

Sounds like a joke? Unfortunately I agree but these are not my rules, but the official forum's policy regarding auctions and scammer tags.

+1
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June 24, 2013, 05:56:31 PM
 #8

CanaryInTheMine refuses to pay despite him being the winning bidder of my auction:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=235864.0

Requesting a scammer tag for CanaryInTheMine.

Thanks.

Sorry, but check this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=238474.0

You will learn that in these forums auctions are nothing but "a device to assist in price negotiation" (literal quote from the admin). You can aritificially raise the price with alt-accounts (aka "shill bidding"), not honor bids, not honor winners, etc. etc. etc. and you will never get a scammer tag.

The only way for CanaryInTheMine to get a scammer tag would be him to have signed a binding GPG contract with you, stating that he would have honored his bids if he won.

Sounds like a joke? Unfortunately I agree but these are not my rules, but the official forum's policy regarding auctions and scammer tags.

+1

This is a good summary of theymos' opinion on the matter. Probably just need a written agreement though, not GPG. Unless I missed something Tongue
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June 24, 2013, 09:57:56 PM
 #9

CanaryInTheMine refuses to pay despite him being the winning bidder of my auction:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=235864.0

Requesting a scammer tag for CanaryInTheMine.

Thanks.

Did you send him the codes?

He shouldn't have to send the codes first. Canary should be paying vortex first and then the codes would be sent. That's how it should work. The offer of escrow has been noted, so if there's problems why is it not being used?

It was a general question, I wasn't implying either way. I presumed that, given this thread was in the 'Scam Accusations' category, someone had made a move and the other party failed to reciprocate. Turns out it's just the OP not getting their way and complaining about it..

vortex1878
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June 25, 2013, 12:28:58 PM
 #10

CanaryInTheMine still has not paid.

Here is the PM conversation. After that he posted in the thread (to become even insulting) where I then replied.

Hi,

Please send 0.5 BTC to 1DzyijHwUsa1BbYefVyTfbCaVSdRQ3xij3 and inform me your email address the credits shall be transferred to.

Cheers

vortex1878
Thanks! But I have a better offer already

That's great. And you also won my auction. So pay, please. Smiley
Ah!! Ok. Link to auction please and I need a signed message for you 1DzyijHwUsa1BbYefVyTfbCaVSdRQ3xij3 address
Thanks,
Canary

Link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=235864.0

Message:

Code:
BFL Chip Credits for CanaryInTheMine.

Signature:

Code:
H3dfiBqy87eKbyqZjGec5zdmaZjzxD5GkrDUggbwftJLLSqxUQg13jK0xOm85qngkCK+GMZMsWwsjxquYirm7ZU=

Cheers

vortex1878
you sending? I gotta go... have somewhere to be for the evening... would like to complete our transaction plz

Yes, me too. I am just waiting for your payment to complete the transaction.
you need to send first buddy.

So I signed a message for him with my address, I offered that he can use escrow, but still he refuses to pay and comes up with insulting bs.

I don't think this is the way anybody should behave here.

And regarding any written agreement: To bid in an auction is a written agreement itself. Plus CanaryInTheMine even endorsed that by posting:

lucky you... they're going for $1.25 now... I will keep my word however... but I do hope I get outbid.

And that he then later publicly said he would not honour his bid, I better leave uncommented...

If he doesn't trust me - fine. That's what escrow is for. But why would I send first, especially after all this dickhead behaviour?!
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June 25, 2013, 12:35:42 PM
 #11

[...]And regarding any written agreement: To bid in an auction is a written agreement itself. Plus CanaryInTheMine even endorsed that by posting:
lucky you... they're going for $1.25 now... I will keep my word however... but I do hope I get outbid.
And that he then later publicly said he would not honour his bid, I better leave uncommented...
If he doesn't trust me - fine. That's what escrow is for. But why would I send first, especially after all this dickhead behaviour?!

Lying is yet another "device to assist in price negotiation," i don't see any problems.
Rampion
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June 25, 2013, 12:37:35 PM
 #12

"To bid in an auction is an agreement by itself"?

Maybe in the outside world, but in this forum an auction is only a "device to assist in price negotiations". Everything is allowed unless there is a signed agreement between you two, for example where you state that canary would have honoured his winning bids.

No scammer tag will be applied.

Please read the thread I linked in my first post.

vortex1878
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June 25, 2013, 12:44:46 PM
 #13

Yeah, forget about the scammer tag.

It just cannot be that somebody gets away with this. And there is no other place (I know of) in this forum to make such matters public.
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June 25, 2013, 12:47:59 PM
 #14

Well,I guess if people actually took the time to learn the rules, these things would not have happened, but seriously, based on Canary's previous ventures, I seriously doubt he would scam 0.5 BTCs (or whatever was the amount here), I sent him over 10 BTC without escrow... just my observation.
Rampion
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June 25, 2013, 12:49:54 PM
 #15

Yeah, forget about the scammer tag.

It just cannot be that somebody gets away with this. And there is no other place (I know of) in this forum to make such matters public.

I understand. It feels bad to lose time in joke auctions. In my opinion and due to the recent events, this is definitely not a good place to run or participate in auctions. Shill bidding is officially tolerated, bids are not binding... Auctions subofurums are just scammer paradise and a very ugly way to lose time.

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June 25, 2013, 12:50:26 PM
 #16

So I signed a message for him with my address, I offered that he can use escrow, but still he refuses to pay and comes up with insulting bs.

[...]

And regarding any written agreement: To bid in an auction is a written agreement itself. Plus CanaryInTheMine even endorsed that by posting:

Auctions here are a bit different than eBay or at an auction house; They're non-binding. Even normal auctions you have the ability to turn down the purchase, though it's heavily frowned upon.

Point is, you seemed to have missed this gem:
You will learn that in these forums auctions are nothing but "a device to assist in price negotiation" (literal quote from the admin). You can artificially raise the price with alt-accounts (aka "shill bidding"), not honor bids, not honor winners, etc. etc. etc. and you will never get a scammer tag.

The only way for CanaryInTheMine to get a scammer tag would be him to have signed a binding GPG contract with you, stating that he would have honored his bids if he won.

You two need to work something out. There is absolutely nothing that will be done otherwise.


EDIT: Ah, Rampion seems to be on top of it this morning with his other posts Cheesy

vortex1878
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June 25, 2013, 12:51:34 PM
 #17

Yes, I have also not expected such behaviour (nor have I ever had to experience something similar before in this forum)...

EDIT: And work what out exactly? The case is clear, and so is the solution..!
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June 25, 2013, 01:52:42 PM
 #18

Yes, I have also not expected such behaviour (nor have I ever had to experience something similar before in this forum)...

EDIT: And work what out exactly? The case is clear, and so is the solution..!

Curiously, the solution that's clear to theymos is clearly different from yours.
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June 26, 2013, 10:56:53 AM
 #19

This is a good summary of theymos' opinion on the matter. Probably just need a written agreement though, not GPG. Unless I missed something Tongue
There was a written agreement (evidenced by the thread).

Forum policy has nothing to do with anything (especially now that scammer tags don't exist).

Forum policy does not dictate that there was no agreement; rather it says the mods won't act to enforce the agreement.

There was an agreement and the winner refuses to pay. There are (much!) worse examples but I say leave neg rep if you feel strongly enough. That's what it's there for.
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June 26, 2013, 12:35:03 PM
 #20

This is a good summary of theymos' opinion on the matter. Probably just need a written agreement though, not GPG. Unless I missed something Tongue
There was a written agreement (evidenced by the thread)..

I'm not entirely sure you know how written agreements work...

Find, on the main auction page, where a binding agreement is created prior to bidding. This sort of agreement would state how both parties should proceed once bidding has ended and a winner has been chosen.

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