Bitcoin Forum
July 17, 2018, 01:15:35 AM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.16.1  [Torrent]. (New!)
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3 [4]  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Ledger nano S or Trezor T?  (Read 2904 times)
codewench
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 93
Merit: 29


View Profile
February 20, 2018, 10:50:35 AM
Merited by gentlemand (2)
 #61

So basically if you buy a nano ledger s, make sure you buy it from manufacturer.  But with trezor, it doesn't matter?  I haven't heard of cases where a compromised trezor was bought.  Anyone read about that?

It is more important to buy the Trezor direct from the manufacturer. In theory, someone could load compromised firmware into a Trezor, repackage it, and sell it on to an unsuspecting buyer. Trezors come from the factory containing only a bootloader, forcing buyers to load fresh firmware. If the device arrived already loaded, then something is wrong! However, a clever hacker could still get around this protection.

The Ledger apparently performs a validity check with every use. Thus, you can have a higher confidence that the firmware isn't compromised. Plus, Ledger's use of a Secure Element (an I/O limited 2nd microcontroller) makes it a lot harder to hack.

Both devices can fall victim to social engineering. A crook could preload a seed and trick people into using it by including an "updated" manual. To protect against this, a user should spend time on the Trezor and Ledger sites and learn about how the device should work. If the received device acts differently, then something is wrong.

...

The two devices have vastly different approaches to security:

Trezor has security through an open source design. This has allowed "white hats" to discover flaws. Conversely, it also allows "black hats" to create malicious clones.

Ledger has security through obscurity. Nobody outside of Ledger knows fully what is going on inside the Secure Element. But what happens when the secret leaks...
1531790135
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1531790135

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1531790135
Reply with quote  #2

1531790135
Report to moderator
The World's Betting Exchange

Bet with play money. Win real Bitcoin. 5BTC Prize Fund for World Cup 2018.

Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
Connemara
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 35
Merit: 0


View Profile
February 21, 2018, 09:13:00 PM
 #62

My Ledger did arrive (apart from all invoice stuff) and after initial problems I was able to initialize it, create a new wallet and secure it.

Question: I have several ERC20 tokens, currently hold in Coinomi mobile wallet.
I want to transfer them to Ledger - is there a way to scan/replicate/teleport/sweep my funds from Coinomi to Ledger OTHER than simply send tokens?
I'm asking, cause transfer fees for ERC20 are awfully expensive comparing to other coins...

Initial impression - it's a very complicated ecosystem with veeeeery bad UX/UI in my subjective opinion.
Chrome apps? Really? Why there is not a native Windows/Linux/Mac app with all the accounts holds together?
Separate apps for almost each coin is super counterintuitive.
Also, the system, when you have to close one "wallet" chromium app to launch manager for example is hyper stupid.
From UX point of view, also launching app is stupid - the app should initiate the connection, not the device itself - device should only confirm PIN/password.
Last but not least - why 2 buttons only? Was third button really so expensive to add?

I know, that human can get used to almost everything and maybe (I'm not engineer) there are some technical specification that force this kind of "stupidity" but for me, as a UX designer (I'm not bragging here, just trying to say, that I'm not a "rookie" in computer tech) and a normal user this is just plain stupid. And calling hardware wallets "easy" to use
- as I saw in some websites - are waaaaaaaaaaaaay exaggerated.
HCP
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 658
Merit: 874

<insert witty quote here>


View Profile
February 21, 2018, 10:45:27 PM
 #63

Chrome apps? Really? Why there is not a native Windows/Linux/Mac app with all the accounts holds together?
Most likely because it is already cross-platform... and easier to maintain ONE codebase than three.


Quote
Separate apps for almost each coin is super counterintuitive.
Why? It helps keeps thing segregated. The number of people who seem to like loading up BCH addresses and sending BTC when on exchanges that have everything in one place would indicate that this may not be such a bad thing.

Also, it means from a development perspective, there are less likely to be issues when updating/adding new coins... you change something in BTC app you only need to test BTC app, you don't have to do regression testing on EVERYTHING to make sure you haven't screwed up another part of the codebase... makes testing faster and means they can release updates faster, which is good for users Smiley


Quote
Also, the system, when you have to close one "wallet" chromium app to launch manager for example is hyper stupid.
No, it isn't... can you imagine the problems that might occur should you happen to start "managing" apps while the wallet is busy communicating with one?

Ensuring that only ONE process is using the device at a time is a good thing in my opinion.


Quote
From UX point of view, also launching app is stupid - the app should initiate the connection, not the device itself - device should only confirm PIN/password.
I'm not sure I follow, you launch the wallet app in Chrome and it opens and waits. You then select the coin you want to use on the device and it "pairs" with the Chrome wallet app. Not really any different to connecting say your phone to a WiFi hotspot is it?


Quote
Last but not least - why 2 buttons only? Was third button really so expensive to add?
I'd say it was more about "space"... I think a 3rd button would have been a bit of a "tight" fit and could have lead to accidental clicking of buttons.

And, to be honest, I don't see the need for a third button... is it really that hard to click both buttons together as "select"? Huh


Mind you, I've been using it for a while now... so it might just be an experience thing.

Connemara
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 35
Merit: 0


View Profile
February 22, 2018, 09:27:50 AM
 #64

Chrome apps? Really? Why there is not a native Windows/Linux/Mac app with all the accounts holds together?
Most likely because it is already cross-platform... and easier to maintain ONE codebase than three.
Quote
Separate apps for almost each coin is super counterintuitive.
Why? It helps keeps thing segregated. The number of people who seem to like loading up BCH addresses and sending BTC when on exchanges that have everything in one place would indicate that this may not be such a bad thing.
Also, it means from a development perspective, there are less likely to be issues when updating/adding new coins... you change something in BTC app you only need to test BTC app, you don't have to do regression testing on EVERYTHING to make sure you haven't screwed up another part of the codebase... makes testing faster and means they can release updates faster, which is good for users Smiley
Quote
Also, the system, when you have to close one "wallet" chromium app to launch manager for example is hyper stupid.
No, it isn't... can you imagine the problems that might occur should you happen to start "managing" apps while the wallet is busy communicating with one?
Ensuring that only ONE process is using the device at a time is a good thing in my opinion.
Quote
From UX point of view, also launching app is stupid - the app should initiate the connection, not the device itself - device should only confirm PIN/password.
I'm not sure I follow, you launch the wallet app in Chrome and it opens and waits. You then select the coin you want to use on the device and it "pairs" with the Chrome wallet app. Not really any different to connecting say your phone to a WiFi hotspot is it?
Quote
Last but not least - why 2 buttons only? Was third button really so expensive to add?
I'd say it was more about "space"... I think a 3rd button would have been a bit of a "tight" fit and could have lead to accidental clicking of buttons.
And, to be honest, I don't see the need for a third button... is it really that hard to click both buttons together as "select"? Huh
Mind you, I've been using it for a while now... so it might just be an experience thing.

Thank you for your answer. The important thing here is to understand, that I was posting only MY PERSONAL OPINION as a brand new/fresh user (what I've stated in my original post, but maybe not clearly enough).
Anyway, I tend to value opinions of every other person, cause that's help me to understand other points of view and update (at some points) my assumptions in terms of better UX designing.

As I wrote, I'm not an engineer and probably there are solid TECHNICAL reasons this is constructed in a way it is now, I'm not arguing on that.
The only thing I'm arguing is the stupidity of some solutions that Ledger is imprinting here - and ONLY as a new user!
I also wrote (which you also pointed) that probably after weeks of using Ledger you just get use to it and treat it like a "normal". These were only my initial impressions.

Still, I beg to disagree in some points.

[Chrome apps]
You're right with cross-platforming, but then you've got a Ripple Wallet, which is... Windows native app, not Chrome app as others.

[separate apps]
Still believe that one "main" app, even if it will have separate "subprograms" for each wallet will benefit for UX/UI.

[additional buttons]
Yes, I still believe adding third button would benefit to UX.
There are several ways to implement it, f.e. there could be a button on the other side of the device, there could be a "flat" button on the side where the LCD is, and so on...
The whole device could be a little bit bigger to hold 3 or even 4 buttons (next, prev, OK, exit).

KEEP IN MIND:
I'm not trying to convince you or anyone to my point of view!
I just like to broaden my horizons through discussion and all of these opinions are only my subjective, personal opinion after using the gear for the first time for like 60 minutes for now Wink

Have a good day and thank you for your input.
HCP
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 658
Merit: 874

<insert witty quote here>


View Profile
February 22, 2018, 05:21:15 PM
 #65

All good mate... as you say, just pointing out some things from *my* perspective Smiley

Wasn't meant to come across as definitive statements for why things are as they are, but more "I think it is like that because...". Honestly, the only people who REALLY know for sure are the Ledger peeps... maybe go hit them up directly and provide some feedback, I'm sure they appreciate the thoughts from a new user.

Connemara
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 35
Merit: 0


View Profile
February 22, 2018, 08:17:23 PM
 #66

All good mate... as you say, just pointing out some things from *my* perspective Smiley

Wasn't meant to come across as definitive statements for why things are as they are, but more "I think it is like that because...". Honestly, the only people who REALLY know for sure are the Ledger peeps... maybe go hit them up directly and provide some feedback, I'm sure they appreciate the thoughts from a new user.
Yeah, sure, I'm mailing them back & forth for a week now to get an invoice, so I rather pass.
HCP
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 658
Merit: 874

<insert witty quote here>


View Profile
February 23, 2018, 06:06:30 PM
 #67

Looks like you're getting your "one app to rule them all" Wink

https://www.ledger.fr/2018/02/23/announcing-new-ledger-wallet-desktop-mobile-applications/

Quote
Initial released feature: One unique App for all currencies

Our initial release will bring all the current set of features supported by all our different apps, but in a unified and multi currency unique application.

You’ll find the full list of features of this first release below

  • Native desktop application (Windows, macOS, Linux)
  • Multi currencies (23 cryptos including Bitcoin, Altcoins, Ethereum, Ripple…)
  • Multi devices (Ledger Nano S, Ledger Blue)
  • Read only consultation of accounts without device (protected by optional password)
  • Dashboard view of all assets
  • Counter values: choice of currency & exchanges
  • Send, receive, account balances & history
  • Confirmation before sending funds
  • On device verification of the receive address
  • Faster account synchronisation engine

Connemara
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 35
Merit: 0


View Profile
February 23, 2018, 08:41:41 PM
 #68

Praise the Lord!  Grin
I'm truly amazed and in fact (which is rare in my case) I'm not being sarcastic right now  Wink


Cheers!


PS. a very good move, in my (modest) opinion.
HCP
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 658
Merit: 874

<insert witty quote here>


View Profile
February 23, 2018, 09:12:04 PM
 #69

To be honest, it *had* to happen... Google are removing Chrome Apps, so it wasn't a long term solution...

I'm looking forward to checking them out, especially the mobile app... as unfortunately the "best" Android solution we currently have (Mycelium) has become a bit of a nightmare following their decisions to try and turn the wallet into an ad platform and/or dodgy Russian ICO marketing platform Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

It will be be nice to have an alternative.

t1Zona
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 243
Merit: 14


View Profile
February 27, 2018, 07:47:24 AM
 #70

I've been waiting for some weeks to see if finally Trezor starts selling Trezor T for anyone, but I see little movement with that. Now I'm doubting between keep waiting or buy Ledger Nano S now, since nano is available again.
Same question as the subject of the thread but a few months later. It annoys me that I finally decide to buy Ledger Nano and then they begin to sell Trezor T  Grin
ThePunisher49X
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 204
Merit: 14


View Profile
March 01, 2018, 06:31:43 PM
 #71

I've been waiting for some weeks to see if finally Trezor starts selling Trezor T for anyone, but I see little movement with that. Now I'm doubting between keep waiting or buy Ledger Nano S now, since nano is available again.
Same question as the subject of the thread but a few months later. It annoys me that I finally decide to buy Ledger Nano and then they begin to sell Trezor T  Grin
The preorders have already been sent out from what you can read up on their official company website
https://blog.trezor.io/first-trezor-model-t-dispatched-warehouse-shipping-preorder-86615b55ffd3

and they are telling of the shipments of those individuals to expect an email to be received once they are shipped to them just released about 2 hours ago
https://twitter.com/TREZOR/status/969233175783333889
BitCryptex
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 266
Merit: 90

Polish translation service https://bit.ly/2K7snsh


View Profile WWW
March 01, 2018, 07:13:10 PM
 #72

The preorders have already been sent out from what you can read up on their official company website
https://blog.trezor.io/first-trezor-model-t-dispatched-warehouse-shipping-preorder-86615b55ffd3

and they are telling of the shipments of those individuals to expect an email to be received once they are shipped to them just released about 2 hours ago
https://twitter.com/TREZOR/status/969233175783333889

I hope they will finish shipping out pre-orders by the end of the next week. Did anyone here pre-ordered their new device? What batch are you in? I'm in the third batch. Magnetic dock is a nice thing to have but I have no idea where I should place it. What a pity that SD card features are not ready yet, hopefully they will release proper updates to enable such things as encrypting, labeling etc. According to TREZOR's twitter, regular sales should start in Q2 2018.

★  PLAY BITCOIN GAMES  ★          Deposit, Play & Cashout INSTANTLY!          | ANN ThreadFacebook  |
[ 100% Deposit BONUS ]  [ Bitcoin & Litecoin ACCEPTED ]  [   REFERRAL Program   ]
●    TABLE & CARD    ●    SLOTS    ●    SKILL    ●    SCRATCH    ●    JACKPOT    ●    RANDOM NUMBERS    ●
Pages: « 1 2 3 [4]  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!