Zealots and Criminals, Is no one using bitcoin for legitimate purchases?

[AliceWonder]

But he is correct.  The biggest problem Bitcoin has right now is the difficulty of getting Bitcoin with fiat, especially in North America (I am assuming).  I hyped my friend on Bitcoin, and he wanted to grab his credit card and buy a few coins right now.  What we found out is if you don't have a miner, you have to go through several hoops in order to actually buy into the market.  I believe North America needs a registered company where you can easily exchange fiat for Bitcoins, and back again.  All anonymity would be lost, but I think that is what gives politicians ect the grounds for saying Bitcoin is only for criminals and Zealots.

Paypal would actually be the big winner if this happened, so I don't think they would be wanting this not to happen, as it would be the easiest way to transfer Fiat into Bitcoins.

In the end my friend never did end up purchasing any Bitcoins to use in the Bitcoin economy.  If we can't make it so even someone that is sold on the idea can't get in, how do we expect others to follow?

https://www.bitinstant.com/ this is what your looking for.

Nope - no credit cards, have to be registered with some service called zipmark or something (I've never heard of it) to then have your bank send money over.

Obtaining bitcoin in the United States is a hurdle.

[1714062747]

1714062747

[FiatKiller]

People hoard their bitcoins. They are reluctant to spend because they think the price will go up and they don't want to lose out - they don't want to be that pizza guy paying $2million for his dinner.

I still don't get this hoarder-argument.
You can hoard and still spend coins without any problem, just rebuy any coins you have used right after that.

That follows if you have fiat to convert. But what if you are mining or earning your coins? Then the coins are your salary - maybe your only salary - and you need to decide whether to spend or save - if the purchasing power of the coins looks likely to rise due to the coin design, then the urge is to save.

If you are earning alt-coins - say merge mining an alt-coin along with your bitcoins - then the tendency is to save the bitcoins and use the alt-coins for expenses. But because no ecommerce site takes alt-coins, folk are forced to go to an exchange, sell them and then send the fiat to their bank minus hefty bank charges, to buy their dinner. So why not allow these folk to spend the coins directly, that way no exchange and bank costs.

The above scenario is pretty common - there are loads of threads asking why people merge-mine alt-coins - and the answer is that the alt coins pay for expenses. Now we just need an ecommerce person to exploit that...

Litecoins are being accepted at more & more sites.

On the conversion to fiat... you buy precious metals and take them to your local dealer to convert back into fiat.

[QuestionAuthority]

But he is correct.  The biggest problem Bitcoin has right now is the difficulty of getting Bitcoin with fiat, especially in North America (I am assuming).  I hyped my friend on Bitcoin, and he wanted to grab his credit card and buy a few coins right now.  What we found out is if you don't have a miner, you have to go through several hoops in order to actually buy into the market.  I believe North America needs a registered company where you can easily exchange fiat for Bitcoins, and back again.  All anonymity would be lost, but I think that is what gives politicians ect the grounds for saying Bitcoin is only for criminals and Zealots.

Paypal would actually be the big winner if this happened, so I don't think they would be wanting this not to happen, as it would be the easiest way to transfer Fiat into Bitcoins.

In the end my friend never did end up purchasing any Bitcoins to use in the Bitcoin economy.  If we can't make it so even someone that is sold on the idea can't get in, how do we expect others to follow?

https://www.bitinstant.com/ this is what your looking for.

Nope - no credit cards, have to be registered with some service called zipmark or something (I've never heard of it) to then have your bank send money over.

Obtaining bitcoin in the United States is a hurdle.

It's difficult but possible. Just as systems were getting in place and easier the regulators moved in and screwed everything up.

[benjamindees]

Until there are at least a few local economies using Bitcoin amongst themselves, Bitcoin will remain primarily a toy for speculators and, yes, zealots and criminals.  That's just how currencies work.

[bluemeanie1]

Until there are at least a few local economies using Bitcoin amongst themselves, Bitcoin will remain primarily a toy for speculators and, yes, zealots and criminals.  That's just how currencies work.

who is going to invest in a currency that can be produced out of thin air by anyone with a computer?

[farlack]

You also get sales by making a post about something unrelated about what you have to offer.

I will probably use your service if I have btc to spare since you're offering zero commission right now.

[Razick]

Yes, http://www.txtpaintball.com

[Razick]

It was Paypal President David Marcus that said "The big question is whether [Bitcoin] is going to go mainstream or stay limited to just a few zealots and criminals."

i use bitcoin and not in a criminal way.

Maybe the article would be better written as "Zealots and Criminals, Is it possible for anyone anywhere to pay or get paid without breaking any laws?". Technically if you get cash out of an ATM and spend it in a shop somewhere else your a money transmitter and need to be registered as such. That's the way the fascist states like it, everyone's guilty of something.

yep. america has become its own oppressor.

America is not a fascist state. It's a republic. The problem is that public opinion has swung so far toward the extreme of security over freedom that the public is oppressing themselves. Either things will change, or the public will "get used to" less freedom and keep demanding more and more security.

Everyone is talking about the 1% oppressing the 99%, but the real issue is the 51% oppressing the 49%, and that has nothing to do with wealth.

[r3wt]

It was Paypal President David Marcus that said "The big question is whether [Bitcoin] is going to go mainstream or stay limited to just a few zealots and criminals."

i use bitcoin and not in a criminal way.

Maybe the article would be better written as "Zealots and Criminals, Is it possible for anyone anywhere to pay or get paid without breaking any laws?". Technically if you get cash out of an ATM and spend it in a shop somewhere else your a money transmitter and need to be registered as such. That's the way the fascist states like it, everyone's guilty of something.

yep. america has become its own oppressor.

America is not a fascist state. It's a republic. The problem is that public opinion has swung so far toward the extreme of security over freedom that the public is oppressing themselves. Either things will change, or the public will "get used to" less freedom and keep demanding more and more security.

Everyone is talking about the 1% oppressing the 99%, but the real issue is the 51% oppressing the 49%, and that has nothing to do with wealth.

that's the dumbest shit i've ever heard anyone say.

[Stampbit]

It was Paypal President David Marcus that said "The big question is whether [Bitcoin] is going to go mainstream or stay limited to just a few zealots and criminals." I started my bitcoin business, stampbit.com, with the intention of finding out for myself. Its been two months since i have started and have seen very little interest for this bitcoin version of USPS click'n'ship. No its not instant like clicknship, nor can i reasonably compete with my supplier on price, but then again i am trying to provide something that may prove inaccessible to anyone without a paypal account or credit card, and do it in a way thats much more convenient that how USPS does.

now what sort of person doesn't have a paypal account or credit card?

either 1) very poor people. 2) criminals who don't want to divulge their identity.  can you think of anyone else?  if so please let us know.

I dont have a paypal account (by choice) nor do i want a credit card. I do have a debit card however thats only because i am a US citizen and have at least $500 to put into a bank. So to address your question of who doesnt have either:

1. Very poor people who cant afford a bank account.
2. Criminals who dont want to divulge their identity but dont wish to steal someone elses.
3. Foreigners who do not have a US bank account.
4. People who by principle do not wish to support our current system.
5. People who have been shut out of the current system by credit rating agencies.

There are many case scenarios as to why a paypal/cc only business would prevent someone from being able to use it.

[Stampbit]

Just a couple of thoughts:

I see at Stampbit you need to download a spreadsheet and input data that way. Make it all web-based, so it's easier.

Hi, ive seen this suggested a few times and have considered it, and agree that this would certainly make it more accessible, not needing local software to process an order, however at the moment since i am doing this all manually and dont have any way to implement a shopping cart email is the best way to keep track of all of this. And of course this prevents anyone from accidentally submitting a wrong email address which would prevent me from fulfilling an order. With an automated solution i would make this entirely web based but until then i must continue with this slightly clunkier method. Thanks for the advice.

[farlack]

It was Paypal President David Marcus that said "The big question is whether [Bitcoin] is going to go mainstream or stay limited to just a few zealots and criminals."

i use bitcoin and not in a criminal way.

Maybe the article would be better written as "Zealots and Criminals, Is it possible for anyone anywhere to pay or get paid without breaking any laws?". Technically if you get cash out of an ATM and spend it in a shop somewhere else your a money transmitter and need to be registered as such. That's the way the fascist states like it, everyone's guilty of something.

yep. america has become its own oppressor.

America is not a fascist state. It's a republic. The problem is that public opinion has swung so far toward the extreme of security over freedom that the public is oppressing themselves. Either things will change, or the public will "get used to" less freedom and keep demanding more and more security.

Everyone is talking about the 1% oppressing the 99%, but the real issue is the 51% oppressing the 49%, and that has nothing to do with wealth.

... wrong 49% just don't pay taxes at the end of the year.. You don't have to make that much to begin paying taxes. Those making a few million a year are not oppressing anyone.

[Stampbit]

I ran my own small business for over 20 years.

Here's some free advice.
 
You haven't given your business enough time to succeed or fail. Success could still happen but you have to really believe in it and work hard for it.

True, ive been told 6 months is a minimum, often for brick and mortar a year is a good measure.

Have enough capital behind you to survive.

If i knew a rich guy to fund my projects id probably be doing something a bit more fun than computer work, though i would still work on this as i really do want bitcoin to succeed and feel that a strong business community will be the only way.

Find out what your product is worth at retail and if you can live on the profit. Don't sell it for less.

When your customer can buy from your supplier its hard to ask retail.

Never tell your customer base that you're on hard times or having difficulty with your business. This causes them to lose faith in you and your doomed. Even if your living on beans and sawdust bread your customers need to think your driving a limo everywhere you go.

Ill take that to heart. This isnt my main job of course but it is a neat experiment.

[johnyj]

Don't worry, when bitcoin price reaches $1K+, there will be lots of users using bitcoin. Currently bitcoin just worth too little that if you spend your precious coin you will have little left (suppose most of the users have 1-100 coin), but if one bitcoin worth a lot, then lots of people will start to spend them

Gavin said that if the price double every year then you can always spend half of your coins and still maintain the same purchase power. Suppose that you need 30K USD each year to have a decent life, you have to spend $30K worth of coin each year, and that is 300 bitcoin in today's price, means 600 coins at hand, maximum 10000 users have that amount of coin

But if that figure dropped to 30 bitcoin, things will be very different

It takes time to distribute the bitcoin first, currently it is through mining, but later when there are lot of people spending coins and the coin supply is shrinking, selling goods/services will become the main method to get coins

[DoomDumas]

Bought and sold a lot of stuff in BTC.

Fiat currency, XBox360, GPUs, Chevy 95 Pickup, Shirts, Trinket, etc etc..

[DoomDumas]

Don't worry, when bitcoin price reaches $1K+, there will be lots of users using bitcoin. Currently bitcoin just worth too little that if you spend your precious coin you will have little left (suppose most of the users have 1-100 coin), but if one bitcoin worth a lot, then lots of people will start to spend them

Gavin said that if the price double every year then you can always spend half of your coins and still maintain the same purchase power. Suppose that you need 30K USD each year to have a decent life, you have to spend $30K worth of coin each year, and that is 300 bitcoin in today's price, means 600 coins at hand, maximum 10000 users have that amount of coin

But if that figure dropped to 30 bitcoin, things will be very different

It takes time to distribute the bitcoin first, currently it is through mining, but later when there are lot of people spending coins and the coin supply is shrinking, selling goods/services will become the main method to get coins

Very nice tought !  +1

I totally agree to this enlighted vision

[Razick]

It was Paypal President David Marcus that said "The big question is whether [Bitcoin] is going to go mainstream or stay limited to just a few zealots and criminals."

i use bitcoin and not in a criminal way.

Maybe the article would be better written as "Zealots and Criminals, Is it possible for anyone anywhere to pay or get paid without breaking any laws?". Technically if you get cash out of an ATM and spend it in a shop somewhere else your a money transmitter and need to be registered as such. That's the way the fascist states like it, everyone's guilty of something.

yep. america has become its own oppressor.

America is not a fascist state. It's a republic. The problem is that public opinion has swung so far toward the extreme of security over freedom that the public is oppressing themselves. Either things will change, or the public will "get used to" less freedom and keep demanding more and more security.

Everyone is talking about the 1% oppressing the 99%, but the real issue is the 51% oppressing the 49%, and that has nothing to do with wealth.

that's the dumbest shit i've ever heard anyone say.

Deal with it. Go live in Hong Kong and enjoy your ~20 years of greater freedom until China resumes control and crushed individual liberty.

What's the "dumbest shit" part?  Look up fascist before you call someone an idiot.

[Stampbit]

Don't worry, when bitcoin price reaches $1K+, there will be lots of users using bitcoin. Currently bitcoin just worth too little that if you spend your precious coin you will have little left (suppose most of the users have 1-100 coin), but if one bitcoin worth a lot, then lots of people will start to spend them

If users can overcome the idea of having fractions of a coin for their hard earned money. Or maybe they will forget what its worth and perceive fractions of a coin as being trivial.

[glitch003]

Just a couple of thoughts:

I see at Stampbit you need to download a spreadsheet and input data that way. Make it all web-based, so it's easier.

Hi, ive seen this suggested a few times and have considered it, and agree that this would certainly make it more accessible, not needing local software to process an order, however at the moment since i am doing this all manually and dont have any way to implement a shopping cart email is the best way to keep track of all of this.

You have a server, you have a brain, build the HTML form that you need to make it work.  You can easily set up an HTML form that uses PHP to send you an email with the form contents. 

Here's a link to some code that you can use to do it: http://www.freecontactform.com/email_form.php

Have problems?  Post on a PHP forum if it's a PHP problem, post on an HTML forum if it's an HTML problem.  Or PM me, I'm happy to help you with this.  Bitcoiners should help eachother.  Heck, the reason I'm on this forum right now is procrastinating working on an HTML/PHP form for my own bitcoin project  

[sdp]

There is another group that cannot use credit cards:  People living outside their own countries.  Credit doesn't follow you outside of your home country.  If you are visiting on a temporary basis you may pay it when you get back or over the Internet but in the long term credit cards are not convenient for say an Indian Exchange Student studying in Australia.  How does he pay his credit card?  He must leave a large amount in India that he might need in Australia or pay large fees to transfer if he needs to make a purchase over the Internet.

Now there's Bitcoin.