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Author Topic: [ANN][TGE] OriginTrail (TRAC) - First Purpose-Built Protocol for Supply Chains  (Read 34709 times)
Chief__Architect
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May 01, 2018, 06:57:52 AM
Last edit: May 01, 2018, 07:17:37 AM by Chief__Architect
 #241

Dear all,

Unfortunately the OriginTrail(OT) moderators deleted my Reddit post, seems they were not comfortable with my questions.

My key point:
The OT masternode architecture is so complex, that only IT-professionals and IT-staff will be able to operate them.

Therefore there is no use of the tokens for average Joes.

https://github.com/OriginTrail/ot-node/wiki/OriginTrail-Incentive-model-v1

"To mitigate this risk, a node will be required to deposit a stake. This stake will be stored in case it is proven that Data Holder tried to sell the data which is altered while Data Viewers will have a mechanism to check if all the chunks of the data are valid and initiate a litigation procedure in case of any inconsistencies. "




Any thoughts about my points?

I went through the Github Wiki and I would like to share the following questions and findings:

1) Masternodes https://github.com/OriginTrail/ot-node/wiki/Integration-Instructions

Due to the technical complexity of the masternodes architecture, an IT-staff will be required to operate it. It utilizes an ArangoDB database and a database needs an administrator to operate it for mission critical use-cases like food supply chain.

For example if the underlying masternode ArangoDB goes corrupt, will you lose your stacked tokens then because you provided tampered/corrupt data to the protocol?

https://github.com/arangodb/arangodb/issues/2049

If not, will OT establish a forensic IT department to judge if somebody manipulated the data in the database or if the database went corrupt due to software bugs?

In general how will OT rule out that data wasn’t manipulated by software bugs but by the operator of the masternode?

What happens if bugs in OT provided software will cause corrupt/tampered data?

What happens if the masternodes got hacked due to undisclosed exploits?

When will a detailed concept be published how OT plans to implement an arbitration board that decides if data was either tampered by the user or corrupt due to software bugs?

What happens if a masternode operator does not implement critical security upgrades or fixes?

What are the sizing / hardware estimates for a masternode?

As well, when will the OT IT-team publish an operations manual for the masternode software that covers my questions? This includes security hardening, user- and role management, backup and recovery, software upgrades, monitoring and health checks as well as high availability concepts.

2)https://github.com/OriginTrail/ot-node/wiki/Supply-chain-data-sync.. (https://github.com/OriginTrail/ot-node/wiki/Supply-chain-data-sync.)

In my perception the OT developers admit in their wiki, that the OT concept does not work in practise. Why? Because to make the OT concepts work, all suppliers have to establish a synchronized master database for the relevant products-codes, e.g. unique master-data ids, beforehand. Everybody in IT knows that this universal master-data database concept is similar to demanding for the Holy Grail of IT to make a concept work.

“Those DC need to establish the same codes for the same products so ODN can validate them. This brings another new level of issues that we call "master data synchronization". Currently, ODN doesn't have mechanism or tools to resolve this problem. Participants in the supply chain need to establish common master database that will enable them to exchange data.”

Any timeline when a solution for this fundamental issue will be published?

3) The source-code in the Github does even not include a license in the header?

Is the totally free to use or proprietary?

Even Tron has a license in their source-code… :-)

https://github.com/tronprotocol/java-tron/blob/develop/src/main/java/org/tron/core/SpendableOutputs.java

And yes, this is my first Bitcointalk post!

Cheers, Chief Architect
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May 01, 2018, 01:25:23 PM
Last edit: May 01, 2018, 01:54:12 PM by Febo
 #242

Dear all,

Unfortunately the OriginTrail(OT) moderators deleted my Reddit post, seems they were not comfortable with my questions.


I see they delete your posts also on other subreddits. What is your nick there and on github?

Why are you not asking on github? Or just improve the protocol there.

I think most of your question are to early, we will just have to wait test and see. I guess we will all become IT-professionals. At least when testing it. Tongue


And for those that had not need Q1 report is here: https://medium.com/origintrail/origintrail-contributor-report-q1-2018-c224fd46ee17   Ofcourse numbers are huge since this is basicly first quater. ICO was happening in thsi quarter. Next quarter numbers will be way way lower.

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May 01, 2018, 08:57:09 PM
Last edit: May 01, 2018, 09:18:59 PM by Chief__Architect
 #243

    Hi,

    many thanks for your quick response!

  • Same nickname at Reddit as here
  • I think it is beneficial to involve a larger community of OT stakeholder, not only the ones scanning the Github.
    Like I said: Average Joes should be aware about the use or value of their OT tokens.
  • Github is not a place to ask questions, propose change request or roadmap discussions
  • I don't do other people’s home-work by maintaining their Github  Grin
  • The protocol itself is the knowledge and expertise of OT, nothing I could contribute from a domain perspective.
    I am having a look at the more general IT-architecture setup.
  • Proposal: The OT teams updates their inventive model to cover my questions. If my questions sound feasible to the community.
  • Proposal: The OT teams creates a bullet-proof operations manual for their infrastructure to be operated by token holders.
  • Proposal: Like for ICONOMI, an external consulting company like Deloitte will review and audit the technical infrastructure setup and token incentive-model.

    I would recommend the audit before the mainnet go-live.

    I am pretty sure that this audit is exceptionally beneficial for OT to be adopted by large customers.  
    Otherwise every IT-staff at large clients will start to ask the same questions as I did.

    https://www2.deloitte.com/si/en/pages/press/blockchain-industry.html

Cheers, Chief Architect



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May 01, 2018, 10:54:10 PM
 #244

I would recommend the audit before the mainnet go-live.

I am pretty sure that this audit is exceptionally beneficial for OT to be adopted by large customers.  
Otherwise every IT-staff at large clients will start to ask the same questions as I did.
https://www2.deloitte.com/si/en/pages/press/blockchain-industry.html

Cheers, Chief Architect

Origin Trail will have a third-party group review the prediction model to estimate the demand for TRAC token based on the level of usability of the protocol. According to the roadmap, this looks like it will be taking place at the end of this month. I believe this should tackle some of the questions you have.
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May 02, 2018, 08:28:06 AM
 #245

Anything new or upcoming for OriginTrail? One of the most stable (but also dissapointing) coins in my portfolio at the moment. Not much action. Was wondering if there is anything good in the pipeline that I can look forward to.
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May 02, 2018, 08:35:15 AM
 #246

First quarter's report looking good and draws clear imagine in big letters about future at the same time. Some people sometimes are concerned about low price that will be solved with listing on one of the large volume generating exchanges in future. It was good time to accumulate and even still id in fact. Let the whales consolidate first in small tranches and then it will explode. It is seamless accumulation.
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May 02, 2018, 12:29:26 PM
 #247

https://tothemoon.live/?IsPast=False&Page=1&Month=0&Year=0&CoinTypes=OriginTrail+%28TRAC%29&SortBy=0
Hello. Today found that on next week Zond Release v0.7a. Initial version of zero knowledge privacy layer. Neo4j Compatibility. Standardized and documented graph logic.
So keep on eye!!!
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May 02, 2018, 06:40:38 PM
Last edit: May 02, 2018, 06:51:03 PM by Febo
 #248


  • Github is not a place to ask questions, propose change request or roadmap discussions


LOL yes it is. That is how open source projects work. Anyone can help develop. And anyone will develop what he thinks is needed.



Lets hope Deloitte will not find something like this ( scroll to bottom) https://www.iconomi.net/audit/201804  40 millions locked founds because of constant bugs on the Ethereum blockchain.

Chief__Architect
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May 03, 2018, 06:32:26 PM
 #249


  • Github is not a place to ask questions, propose change request or roadmap discussions


LOL yes it is. That is how open source projects work. Anyone can help develop. And anyone will develop what he thinks is needed.



Lets hope Deloitte will not find something like this ( scroll to bottom) https://www.iconomi.net/audit/201804  40 millions locked founds because of constant bugs on the Ethereum blockchain.



First of all is OT not an open-source project until they have the corresponding license model like GPL or Apache in their Github repository.

To learn about the proper setup of a software- and open-source project, the Apache Foundation is probably a good starting point for you.  Grin
https://www.apache.org/foundation/getinvolved.html

Here is how change-request and bugs are discussed and managed w. appropriate tool support:
https://www.apache.org/foundation/mailinglists.html
https://issues.apache.org/

Does OT have tools like Bugzilla, Jira or Jenkins in place in order to scale the project?
As well not sure if everybody should be allowed to contribute to a project:
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/contributing.html

Hope this help to understand that an professionally managed software and open-source project is far more than a Github.


Cheers, Chief Architect

PS: ICONOMI seems to be pretty rich  Wink
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May 04, 2018, 10:24:27 AM
 #250

OriginTrail doing great today. Have I missed some news lately? Or is it just stable and fundamental growth?

I like it  Grin
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May 05, 2018, 02:22:54 PM
 #251

Hope this help to understand that an professionally managed software and open-source project is far more than a Github.


Cheers, Chief Architect

PS: ICONOMI seems to be pretty rich  Wink


I am glad there are people like you on the team.  ICONOMI will stay rich till next Etehreum BUG. Until TRACE will be on Eth will face same treath.  And sadly that threat is certain. Question is just how big loses there will be.
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May 07, 2018, 06:55:18 AM
 #252

https://tothemoon.live/?IsPast=False&Page=1&Month=0&Year=0&CoinTypes=OriginTrail+%28TRAC%29&SortBy=0 - Zond Release Today!!!  Kiss
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May 08, 2018, 01:20:46 AM
 #253

how long does it usually take for ether to show up in your kucoin account? my transaction was confirmed like 20 minutes ago

LOL at the time that kucoin decide to write that amount of ether beside your name. At point you send your coins to a centralized exchange those coins are not yours anymore but theirs to do what pleases them.  
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May 08, 2018, 04:48:49 AM
 #254

The Zond release introduces:

- A standardized and documented OriginTrail graph ontology structure and compatibility with the Neo4j graph database. This compatibility enhances the flexibility in the data layer as it allows for selecting more than one underlying database system.
- The first version of the zero-knowledge privacy protocol for sharing sensitive data in an encrypted, but publicly verifiable form. This makes the OriginTrail protocol more attractive to companies who would like the competitive advantage of increased transparency and efficiency in their supply chains.
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May 08, 2018, 07:26:15 PM
 #255

how long does it usually take for ether to show up in your kucoin account? my transaction was confirmed like 20 minutes ago

LOL at the time that kucoin decide to write that amount of ether beside your name. At point you send your coins to a centralized exchange those coins are not yours anymore but theirs to do what pleases them. 
you're one of those people who doesn't read tos, aren't you?
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May 10, 2018, 03:59:24 PM
 #256

Dear all,

Unfortunately the OriginTrail(OT) moderators deleted my Reddit post, seems they were not comfortable with my questions.

My key point:
The OT masternode architecture is so complex, that only IT-professionals and IT-staff will be able to operate them.

Therefore there is no use of the tokens for average Joes.

https://github.com/OriginTrail/ot-node/wiki/OriginTrail-Incentive-model-v1

"To mitigate this risk, a node will be required to deposit a stake. This stake will be stored in case it is proven that Data Holder tried to sell the data which is altered while Data Viewers will have a mechanism to check if all the chunks of the data are valid and initiate a litigation procedure in case of any inconsistencies. "




Any thoughts about my points?

I went through the Github Wiki and I would like to share the following questions and findings:

1) Masternodes https://github.com/OriginTrail/ot-node/wiki/Integration-Instructions

Due to the technical complexity of the masternodes architecture, an IT-staff will be required to operate it. It utilizes an ArangoDB database and a database needs an administrator to operate it for mission critical use-cases like food supply chain.

For example if the underlying masternode ArangoDB goes corrupt, will you lose your stacked tokens then because you provided tampered/corrupt data to the protocol?

https://github.com/arangodb/arangodb/issues/2049

If not, will OT establish a forensic IT department to judge if somebody manipulated the data in the database or if the database went corrupt due to software bugs?

In general how will OT rule out that data wasn’t manipulated by software bugs but by the operator of the masternode?

What happens if bugs in OT provided software will cause corrupt/tampered data?

What happens if the masternodes got hacked due to undisclosed exploits?

When will a detailed concept be published how OT plans to implement an arbitration board that decides if data was either tampered by the user or corrupt due to software bugs?

What happens if a masternode operator does not implement critical security upgrades or fixes?

What are the sizing / hardware estimates for a masternode?

As well, when will the OT IT-team publish an operations manual for the masternode software that covers my questions? This includes security hardening, user- and role management, backup and recovery, software upgrades, monitoring and health checks as well as high availability concepts.

2)https://github.com/OriginTrail/ot-node/wiki/Supply-chain-data-sync.. (https://github.com/OriginTrail/ot-node/wiki/Supply-chain-data-sync.)

In my perception the OT developers admit in their wiki, that the OT concept does not work in practise. Why? Because to make the OT concepts work, all suppliers have to establish a synchronized master database for the relevant products-codes, e.g. unique master-data ids, beforehand. Everybody in IT knows that this universal master-data database concept is similar to demanding for the Holy Grail of IT to make a concept work.

“Those DC need to establish the same codes for the same products so ODN can validate them. This brings another new level of issues that we call "master data synchronization". Currently, ODN doesn't have mechanism or tools to resolve this problem. Participants in the supply chain need to establish common master database that will enable them to exchange data.”

Any timeline when a solution for this fundamental issue will be published?

3) The source-code in the Github does even not include a license in the header?

Is the totally free to use or proprietary?

Even Tron has a license in their source-code… :-)

https://github.com/tronprotocol/java-tron/blob/develop/src/main/java/org/tron/core/SpendableOutputs.java

And yes, this is my first Bitcointalk post!

Cheers, Chief Architect


Thank you for such a detailed write-up! WOW! Anyway, you know like they say - "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."
Do you think there's a way for IT professionals to explain that stuff to the average Joes? ELI5 style, you know?
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May 10, 2018, 08:59:53 PM
 #257

Interesting project. Do you have any big announcements coming up?
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May 11, 2018, 02:17:43 AM
 #258

Interesting project. Do you have any big announcements coming up?
The nearest event is Surveyor Release v0.8a - May 21st
        Initial version of consensus check with privacy layer (zk)
        V2 of bidding mechanism

Surveyor will be the first release to utilize the consensus check (the validation mechanism for interactions between supply chain parties used in OriginTrail protocol) based on the privacy sublayer of OT protocol. It will also introduce improvements to the bidding mechanism and token utilization.

and TESTNET Apollo Release v1.0b - June 29th
        OriginTrail Test Network Launch
        Live cases using protocol test network
        1st Open Call for use-cases (up to 10 projects voted upon by token holders via a Smart Contract)

Apollo is the first beta version of the testnet protocol and implements all the features set for development. With the growing usage of the protocol and identified improvement proposals, we will be moving towards a mainnet launch in Q3.with first open call for use cases.
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May 11, 2018, 04:46:30 AM
 #259

TGE has a good run.
Think the next double or 10x is Spectrecoin (XSPEC), best undervalued privacy coin.  More private than zcash/dash.  Think it will go from $0.50 to $5.00.
That's 10x. 
Longer term, think it'll be $50. imo.  Get in before others or get missed out.
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May 11, 2018, 07:12:09 AM
 #260

Interesting project. Do you have any big announcements coming up?
The nearest event is Surveyor Release v0.8a - May 21st
        Initial version of consensus check with privacy layer (zk)
        V2 of bidding mechanism

Surveyor will be the first release to utilize the consensus check (the validation mechanism for interactions between supply chain parties used in OriginTrail protocol) based on the privacy sublayer of OT protocol. It will also introduce improvements to the bidding mechanism and token utilization.

and TESTNET Apollo Release v1.0b - June 29th
        OriginTrail Test Network Launch
        Live cases using protocol test network
        1st Open Call for use-cases (up to 10 projects voted upon by token holders via a Smart Contract)

Apollo is the first beta version of the testnet protocol and implements all the features set for development. With the growing usage of the protocol and identified improvement proposals, we will be moving towards a mainnet launch in Q3.with first open call for use cases.

Is this forthcoming Surveyor Release the reason OriginTrail is pumped?
I am glad to see the pump, but it seems that it is hard to reach 0.0004 ETH.
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