Run 'Round FINCEN Rules. Bitcoin Exchanges without Registering

[bitrebel]

If a person buys or sells bitcoins for dollars, they are supposed to register as a Money Transmitter. This is being applied to the average person even Foundations that do not angage in this, based on the associations of their members.

So, I propose nobody ever buys or sells bitcoins for dollars anymore. I propose we give them away for FREE whenever someone buys or sells a piece of blank paper, valued at approx the same price as bitcoins.

If someone is willing to buy my "pet rock" for $105.00, I'll include a FREE Bitcoin!

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[bitrebel]

I heard a story once of people in the depression, who were forbidden by law from selling chickens.
So, they sold chicken feed instead, and gave away a free chicken with every bag sold.

There is always a way around the legal madness.
Because legal writings are nothing more than contrived madness, and so all laws must be "strictly interpreted", without room for error or misunderstanding.

[justusranvier]

If 10000 US Bitcoin users opened accounts on LocalBitcoins and started actively trading, there would be little anyone could do about it.

[atomium]

check out this livestream: http://new.livestream.com/accounts/1409343/events/2202468

"Bitcoin and Beyond: Financial Privacy and Censorship" LiveStream CFP2013

[bluemeanie1]

 Personally I believe they are trying to create legal barriers from exiting the failing USD.

 They won't be successful in the long run.

[TippingPoint]

If 10000 US Bitcoin users opened accounts on LocalBitcoins and started actively trading, there would be little anyone could do about it.

I doubt that would happen unless opening an account on LocalBitcoins and actively trading was transformed into a "cool" social activity (and not a nerdic activity).  A "hero of the revolution" or something.

And Craigslist is another possible fertile field.

[justusranvier]

I doubt that would happen unless opening an account on LocalBitcoins and actively trading was transformed into a "cool" social activity (and not a nerdic activity).  A "hero of the revolution" or something.

I don't think that's impossible to achieve.

[TippingPoint]

I doubt that would happen unless opening an account on LocalBitcoins and actively trading was transformed into a "cool" social activity (and not a nerdic activity).  A "hero of the revolution" or something.

I don't think that's impossible to achieve.

Not impossible.

Imagine thousands of people eager to be an Independent Bitcoin Mercenary.

Identified by a cool logo or graphic on their laptop computer, iPad, cap, or clothing.

Using the free Wifi at thousands of Starbucks, McDonald's, and other locations.

Conducting face-to-face transactions between Bitcoins and cash, with an aura of excitement and adventure.

With well-timed, discounted loss-leaders such as flash drives, android tablets, etc. that can only be purchased with Bitcoins.

Advertised via internet social media.

[Chaoskampf]

If you're interested in legal loopholes...then here's something to think about : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=234731.0

Don't just read the thread. Read the paper! Come to your own conclusions.

[Stephen Gornick]

If you're interested in legal loopholes...

Also, infrequent traders (five times or less per year) not doing it for profit are not money transmitters (at least that's what might be deduced from U.S. federal law):

Limitation On MSB Regulations For Infrequent Trading
 - http://bitcoinmoney.com/post/52305091840

[bitrebel]

If you're interested in legal loopholes...then here's something to think about : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=234731.0

Don't just read the thread. Read the paper! Come to your own conclusions.

Yes, I made this argument a couple years ago, on these boards. I agree, it's Memory and not currency, but if the government wants to fuck with the definition of "currency", then they can try to. If it works for them, then all we have to do is "give them away FREE", with the purchase of something of (=) decided value.

[doom309]

could btc transactions be structured something like, the btc is free of charge, but i charge a ... usd "admin fee" per btc, or part thereof, to "guarantee" i will sent it from my wallet to yours ... ??

make the actual fiat value a "guarantee" of service, the service being delivery of a free bitcoin

[jackthebeanstalk]

The only way that the authorities can control the Bitcoin was at the point of exchanges, I won't be surprise at their rules.

[bluemeanie1]

If a person buys or sells bitcoins for dollars, they are supposed to register as a Money Transmitter. This is being applied to the average person even Foundations that do not angage in this, based on the associations of their members.

So, I propose nobody ever buys or sells bitcoins for dollars anymore. I propose we give them away for FREE whenever someone buys or sells a piece of blank paper, valued at approx the same price as bitcoins.

If someone is willing to buy my "pet rock" for $105.00, I'll include a FREE Bitcoin!

what if you trade them for gold?

[legitnick]

If a person buys or sells bitcoins for dollars, they are supposed to register as a Money Transmitter. This is being applied to the average person even Foundations that do not angage in this, based on the associations of their members.

So, I propose nobody ever buys or sells bitcoins for dollars anymore. I propose we give them away for FREE whenever someone buys or sells a piece of blank paper, valued at approx the same price as bitcoins.

If someone is willing to buy my "pet rock" for $105.00, I'll include a FREE Bitcoin!

I completly ignore FINCEN regulations and I encourage everyone else to do the same.

lol I remember the "Pet Rocks" they were actually a thing when I was a kid and people used to actually buy them.

[bitrebel]

If a person buys or sells bitcoins for dollars, they are supposed to register as a Money Transmitter. This is being applied to the average person even Foundations that do not angage in this, based on the associations of their members.

So, I propose nobody ever buys or sells bitcoins for dollars anymore. I propose we give them away for FREE whenever someone buys or sells a piece of blank paper, valued at approx the same price as bitcoins.

If someone is willing to buy my "pet rock" for $105.00, I'll include a FREE Bitcoin!

I completly ignore FINCEN regulations and I encourage everyone else to do the same.

lol I remember the "Pet Rocks" they were actually a thing when I was a kid and people used to actually buy them.

The Pet Rock was a throwaway idea, for the thought. What we really need is a Digital Good, capable of being sold or transferred. It can be paired with bitcoin, and then all transactions are for that product, not the bitcoins. Could be a e-card or something like that. As long as Bitcoin itself is not the item being sold for dollars, then it can be used as a part of the transaction.

An e-card would be difficult to justify for such a large transaction though. Maybe if someone developed a simple piece of software around bitcoin, made it open source, allowed people to alter and update it, or it could be a simple program, with updates. It could potentially justify the sales transactions. In essence the software would be free, but people could charge any amount they want for it, and that is the product being traded between people, not the currency of bitcoin.

[threeip]

It can be paired with bitcoin, and then all transactions are for that product, not the bitcoins. Could be a e-card or something like that.

Are you saying if someone sold you an iPhone and an ounce of weed for $100, they are not a drug dealer, just a lowly handset merchant?

Edit: I think drug dealers just be drug dealers and not worry about selling eg Amazon vouchers as well.

[bitrebel]

It can be paired with bitcoin, and then all transactions are for that product, not the bitcoins. Could be a e-card or something like that.

Are you saying if someone sold you an iPhone and an ounce of weed for $100, they are not a drug dealer, just a lowly handset merchant?

Edit: I think drug dealers just be drug dealers and not worry about selling eg Amazon vouchers as well.

Bitcoin is not drugs and they are not illegal. This is only for the future event that FINCEN decides all transaction in bitcoins should be money service registered, when trading for dollars.

[threeip]

Drug dealer in this case == someone doing something that the gov has interests in regulating

If a drug dealer registers as a 'pharma services business', they turn into a pharmacy. Or something like that.

[shawshankinmate37927]

The Pet Rock was a throwaway idea, for the thought. What we really need is a Digital Good, capable of being sold or transferred. It can be paired with bitcoin, and then all transactions are for that product, not the bitcoins. Could be a e-card or something like that. As long as Bitcoin itself is not the item being sold for dollars, then it can be used as a part of the transaction.

An e-card would be difficult to justify for such a large transaction though. Maybe if someone developed a simple piece of software around bitcoin, made it open source, allowed people to alter and update it, or it could be a simple program, with updates. It could potentially justify the sales transactions. In essence the software would be free, but people could charge any amount they want for it, and that is the product being traded between people, not the currency of bitcoin.

I have a feeling there are a lot of very artistic individuals in the bitcoin community.  Perhaps these Picassos could create some artwork in Microsoft Paint.  The more fiat that someone is willing to pay for one of these digital masterpieces, then the more free bitcoins they could receive as a bonus.