Butterfly Labs refusing refunds?

[Odin50]

I need miner not refund

[knightlife999]

I asked for a refund and was refused here is a copy of the email for your amusement.

I am going to challenge paypal even though it has passed the 45 days because according to their terms you can not take money for products that they do not have to sell.

So I will see what happens - not holding my breath though

From: Butterfly Labs Inc [office@butterflylabs.com]
Sent: Friday, July 05, 2013 5:49 PM
To: Chris J R******
Subject: Re: Order Number 100034910

Thank you for contacting Butterfly Labs.  According to the terms you agreed to on checkout, all sales are final.  Now that shipping of orders has begun, refunds will not be processed.  Your order will be shipped per your position in the order queue.  Thank you for your patience and understanding.


For Jody's Customer Service Blog, and more, please visit our new BFL Forums at <https://forums.butterflylabs.com/blogs/bfl_jody/>

Best regards,
Sabina
BF Labs, Inc. Customer Service


On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 11:02 PM, Chris R**** <Chris.*****.co.uk> wrote:

Hello,

I placed my order on the 6th Arpil order number 100034910, I was aware it was a pre order item - but you did state that it would be 2 months! I can not wait any longer and I require the money due to a change in circumstances.

Therefore I would kindly request that you cancel my order and refund the money.

Many thanks

Chris R*****

You know Chris. BFL noted at the bottom of each miner's info page that it could take 2 months or more to ship our miners. I remember reading it months before you even placed your order. Worst case scenario, in a few months you should receive your miner. You can sell it at that point. Or you could try to auction it off.

[btceic]

I asked for a refund and was refused here is a copy of the email for your amusement.

I am going to challenge paypal even though it has passed the 45 days because according to their terms you can not take money for products that they do not have to sell.

So I will see what happens - not holding my breath though

From: Butterfly Labs Inc [office@butterflylabs.com]
Sent: Friday, July 05, 2013 5:49 PM
To: Chris J R******
Subject: Re: Order Number 100034910

Thank you for contacting Butterfly Labs.  According to the terms you agreed to on checkout, all sales are final.  Now that shipping of orders has begun, refunds will not be processed.  Your order will be shipped per your position in the order queue.  Thank you for your patience and understanding.


For Jody's Customer Service Blog, and more, please visit our new BFL Forums at <https://forums.butterflylabs.com/blogs/bfl_jody/>

Best regards,
Sabina
BF Labs, Inc. Customer Service


On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 11:02 PM, Chris R**** <Chris.*****.co.uk> wrote:

Hello,

I placed my order on the 6th Arpil order number 100034910, I was aware it was a pre order item - but you did state that it would be 2 months! I can not wait any longer and I require the money due to a change in circumstances.

Therefore I would kindly request that you cancel my order and refund the money.

Many thanks

Chris R*****

You know Chris. BFL noted at the bottom of each miner's info page that it could take 2 months or more to ship our miners. I remember reading it months before you even placed your order. Worst case scenario, in a few months you should receive your miner. You can sell it at that point. Or you could try to auction it off.

it might be worthless by then

[Flying Hellfish]

I need miner not refund

This is very likely not the thread for you...  Yet!

[rovchris]

I asked for a refund and was refused here is a copy of the email for your amusement.

I am going to challenge paypal even though it has passed the 45 days because according to their terms you can not take money for products that they do not have to sell.

So I will see what happens - not holding my breath though

From: Butterfly Labs Inc [office@butterflylabs.com]
Sent: Friday, July 05, 2013 5:49 PM
To: Chris J R******
Subject: Re: Order Number 100034910

Thank you for contacting Butterfly Labs.  According to the terms you agreed to on checkout, all sales are final.  Now that shipping of orders has begun, refunds will not be processed.  Your order will be shipped per your position in the order queue.  Thank you for your patience and understanding.


For Jody's Customer Service Blog, and more, please visit our new BFL Forums at <https://forums.butterflylabs.com/blogs/bfl_jody/>

Best regards,
Sabina
BF Labs, Inc. Customer Service


On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 11:02 PM, Chris R**** <Chris.*****.co.uk> wrote:

Hello,

I placed my order on the 6th Arpil order number 100034910, I was aware it was a pre order item - but you did state that it would be 2 months! I can not wait any longer and I require the money due to a change in circumstances.

Therefore I would kindly request that you cancel my order and refund the money.

Many thanks

Chris R*****

You know Chris. BFL noted at the bottom of each miner's info page that it could take 2 months or more to ship our miners. I remember reading it months before you even placed your order. Worst case scenario, in a few months you should receive your miner. You can sell it at that point. Or you could try to auction it off.

I was fully aware when I ordered the products  that it said 2 months or more but they can not leave a a notice at the bottom of the order page saying 2 months or more for five months while still taking more orders - the 2 months is just a blatant lie - it is a complete misrepresentation of the facts.

In reality it should say 6 months or more.

I suspect this was put there to get around the 45 day limit on paypal claims.

No one wants to buy it - I have already tried selling it at COST price aka making nothing.

BFL will not give a shipping date or estimated delivery date or even say how many units they have shipped.

Why would a company not refund an order if they were financially stable?

[knightlife999]

I may be interested in purchasing it from you. PM me with what you ordered and what your asking price is.

[Mr.Dreamanonym]

You cant get refunds because BFL is a scam.

Yes scam

[tanya.cryptocurrency]

I need miner not refund

This is very likely not the thread for you...  Yet!

Laughted at this , this is all very interesting.

It easy to see a wave of refunds heading towards BFL in the near future.

I wonder what this will do to thier working capital , who wants to vote /bet that Josh end up doing time?

Unless he has some pretty large backers .

* I have nothing to do with this and never ordered from BFL.
But I don't think BFL has any special friends at the federal level , well maybe not anymore.

[rovchris]

I need miner not refund

This is very likely not the thread for you...  Yet!

Laughted at this , this is all very interesting.

It easy to see a wave of refunds heading towards BFL in the near future.

I wonder what this will do to thier working capital , who wants to vote /bet that Josh end up doing time?

Unless he has some pretty large backers .

* I have nothing to do with this and never ordered from BFL.
But I don't think BFL has any special friends at the federal level , well maybe not anymore.

I don't think they have any working capital left or are running extremely low - otherwise they would just issue refunds.

By not issuing refunds - it is going to raise suspicions, it is doing untold damage to their already poor reputation and people that were on the border line before will now be getting cold feet and no doubt want their money back.

[foobaz]

They need to clearly represent the units take over 6 mos (at least) to turnaround.  Based on the progression of the difficulty level, people would not buy the units as the smaller ones will be mostly obsolete by the time they arrive.   Unless they have already ordered/received the ASICs for your unit, I don't believe they can make any claim of damage or costs incurred.  CC is safer because you can dispute easily (AMEX the best, they side with consumer almost 100% of the time).   

[crumbs]

They need to clearly represent the units take over 6 mos (at least) to turnaround.  Based on the progression of the difficulty level, people would not buy the units as the smaller ones will be mostly obsolete by the time they arrive.   Unless they have already ordered/received the ASICs for your unit, I don't believe they can make any claim of damage or costs incurred.  CC is safer because you can dispute easily (AMEX the best, they side with consumer almost 100% of the time).   

Funny how BTC loyalty goes down the drain as CC with chargeback are called for rescue

[rovchris]

They need to clearly represent the units take over 6 mos (at least) to turnaround.  Based on the progression of the difficulty level, people would not buy the units as the smaller ones will be mostly obsolete by the time they arrive.   Unless they have already ordered/received the ASICs for your unit, I don't believe they can make any claim of damage or costs incurred.  CC is safer because you can dispute easily (AMEX the best, they side with consumer almost 100% of the time).   

Funny how BTC loyalty goes down the drain as CC with chargeback are called for rescue

This is true!

All that will happen going forward is people will just use escrow services.

I think people felt there was a bit more of a community and trust with bitcoins but BFL have completely destroyed that one.

It is companies like BFL that are damaging the reputation of Bitcoins for the exact reason you can not do a chargeback.

I have to say I will never purchase any high value item with bitcoins without an escrow service.

[btceic]

They need to clearly represent the units take over 6 mos (at least) to turnaround.  Based on the progression of the difficulty level, people would not buy the units as the smaller ones will be mostly obsolete by the time they arrive.   Unless they have already ordered/received the ASICs for your unit, I don't believe they can make any claim of damage or costs incurred.  CC is safer because you can dispute easily (AMEX the best, they side with consumer almost 100% of the time).   

Funny how BTC loyalty goes down the drain as CC with chargeback are called for rescue

This is true!

All that will happen going forward is people will just use escrow services.

I think people felt there was a bit more of a community and trust with bitcoins but BFL have completely destroyed that one.

It is companies like BFL that are damaging the reputation of Bitcoins for the exact reason you can not do a chargeback.

I have to say I will never purchase any high value item with bitcoins without an escrow service.

terrahash and avalon are doing this as well, which is a shame.

[LimKopi]

Haven't they shipped out orders already?

[becoin]

I need miner not refund

This is why you'll get neither refund nor miner.

[foobaz]

i don't understand why these companies are selling the ASICs, they should just be building farms and selling shares, much more profitable and less hassle with "customers"

[rovchris]

i don't understand why these companies are selling the ASICs, they should just be building farms and selling shares, much more profitable and less hassle with "customers"

Well if they did that it would centralise the network and defy the entire point of bitcoins which is a decentralised currency.

What would happen when those companies then decide to work together and completely control the money supply - we would basically end up with central banks again. Meet the new boss same as the old boss.

[rovchris]

Haven't they shipped out orders already?

They have probably shipped 1% of the orders in a 1 1/2 year period - at that rate anyone at the end of the order queue will be long dead before it arrives.

[becoin]

Well if they did that it would centralise the network and defy the entire point of bitcoins which is a decentralised currency.

What would happen when those companies then decide to work together and completely control the money supply - we would basically end up with central banks again. Meet the new boss same as the old boss.

Firstly money supply doesn't depend on the extend of bitcoin centralization and secondly, mining pools (not ASIC manufacturers) can work together with much more success to control bitcoin network.

[rovchris]

Well if they did that it would centralise the network and defy the entire point of bitcoins which is a decentralised currency.

What would happen when those companies then decide to work together and completely control the money supply - we would basically end up with central banks again. Meet the new boss same as the old boss.

Firstly money supply doesn't depend on the extend of bitcoin centralization and secondly, mining pools (not ASIC manufacturers) can work together with much more success to control bitcoin network.

Of course money supply can be impacted by centralisation - If the mining cartel decided not to sell their bitcoins for 6 months or a year then there would not be an increase in the money supply for 6 months or a year.

If one of the large cartels data centres catches fire and burns to the ground there would be a massive impact to the network and transaction times would go through the roof. Look what happens when the "mighty" ASICminer has a 30 ths wobble - suddenly the time between blocks increases massively.

Please examine this graph http://www.asicminercharts.com/

The entire point of bitcoins was to decentralise the money supply

So I am unsure what point you are making.

The number of people now mining Bitcoins is reducing massively as it is impossible to make any decent cash. The reason the network hashrate is increasing is because of the few people that have ASICs are cleaning up.

The other thing with mining pools - its only the pool operator that really knows what is going on. Miners just point their rigs at them and forget about it - he could be doing anything.