[Archived] Profit tracking.

[Lutpin]

This thread has been discontinued and has been archived.

[1715692773]

1715692773

[1715692773]

1715692773

[1715692773]

1715692773

[Lutpin]

This thread has been discontinued and has been archived.

[Muttley]

Nice @Lutpin
Following this new thread.

 

[Parodium]

Just to set some expectations, I've been invested for approximately 2 weeks (BTC) and have generated approximately 0.16% interest in that time.

This works out around 4.16% interest per year, not to mention the divest fee. This leads me to believe that atleast one of the following must be true;

1. Bankroll turnover is slowing
2. Investment growth is accelerating
3. Profitability is decreasing (or recent high rollers have been hitting the bankroll).

[TheQuin]

Just to set some expectations, I've been invested for approximately 2 weeks (BTC) and have generated approximately 0.16% interest in that time.

This works out around 4.16% interest per year, not to mention the divest fee. This leads me to believe that atleast one of the following must be true;

1. Bankroll turnover is slowing
2. Investment growth is accelerating
3. Profitability is decreasing (or recent high rollers have been hitting the bankroll).

Two weeks really isn't long enough to come to any of those conclusions.

1. You can regularly check the turnover for each coin and each game on the statistic tab. I cannot see any sign of a slow down.

2. If you look at the chart provided on the investments tab you can see the history of the total invested in each coin. Again none of them seem to have increased unusually in the last two weeks.

3. Profit is variable due to luck.

My first BTC investment made on 12th September is up 5.86% so far, but I wouldn't extrapolate that out for a full year as there is no merit in doing so.

[Lutpin]

Just to set some expectations, I've been invested for approximately 2 weeks (BTC) and have generated approximately 0.16% interest in that time.

Two weeks really isn't long enough to come to any of those conclusions.

Seconded, one of the reason for the switch to monthly numbers is that imo weekly ones have way too much variance, a single high roller can influence them easily in both directions.
Of course, the same is true for monthly stats, but they are a bit less prone to it.

3. Profit is variable due to luck.

Maybe I should pin that at the beginning of the thread

2. Investment growth is accelerating

Not really, the bankroll is fairly stable, it's currently sitting at 1816BTC, with the high this year being 2007BTC in May (meaning overall investments have decreased).
Unless you factor in the bitcoin exchange rate, at which point the bankroll has increased big time over the year due to bitcoin climbing over 800% in price.

1. Bankroll turnover is slowing
~snip~
3. Profitability is decreasing

Same thing, isn't it?
Your expected profit results from wagers over your bankroll share, which really is just the turnover.

Right now, that would be 1,447BTC wagered the last 30 days over 1816BTC invested (~80% monthly turnover),
Compared to the numbers from August (2811 over 1630, 172%) and June (3524 over 1566, 225%).
Bit of a slow month, but I'd say anything close to full turnover in a months time still has a decent profit potential.

[NobFox]

This works out around 4.16% interest per year, not to mention the divest fee. This leads me to believe that atleast one of the following must be true;

After 21 days when the investment has matured, the divest fee is wavered. It also drops slowly over the course of the 21 days should you need to withdraw those funds.

I'm very pleased with all my investments in CG so far, with the exception of PPC which only ever seems to drop.

[TheQuin]

I'm very pleased with all my investments in CG so far, with the exception of PPC which only ever seems to drop.

The chart tells a different story.



I did notice a high roller enjoying the 1.02x recently. If that run of luck comes to an abrupt end your investment is likely to spike.

[Lutpin]

(Quoting from the old thread, would prefer to keep all discussion in a single one now)

Hi, I was wondering if different investments in the same coin are separate or if they are added like in a fund.
Let’s say you have an investment in Bitcoin and you want to add another BTC0.01. Are your first investment and this second one treated separately? I’ve tried to find this info in FAQ and this thread but can’t find it.
I know there is a divestment fee, so that makes me think they are separate but the fee could be calculated even if they are joined.

Investments are treated seperately due to the divest fee.
Regardless, two investments of 0.01BTC wil make the same profit one investment of 0.02BTC makes, since they all are part of the same bankroll.
If you want to increase your investments, adding another one is an option,
however the amount of investments you can have on a single coin is limited to 4 (I think, could be 5).

[Don Pedro Dinero]

If you want to increase your investments, adding another one is an option,
however the amount of investments you can have on a single coin is limited to 4 (I think, could be 5).

I guess that limit wouldn’t be a problem if I wanted to invest more in the same coin.

Let’s suppose than I had four 0.01BTC investments (plus interest) and I wanted to invest 0.05 more. I can divest out one of them and then add a new investment for 0.05BTC plus the amount I had divested. I suppose that isn't forbidden or anything.

Edit: I’ve replaced “cash out” by “divest” after reading @minifrij’s comment because I think it sounds more natural and correct.

[minifrij]

Let’s suppose than I had four 0.01BTC investments (plus interest) and I wanted to invest 0.05 more. I could cash out one of them (to my crypto-games.net account) and then add a new investment for 0.05BTC plus the amount I had cashed out. I suppose that isn't forbidden or anything.

Correct. If you want to increase an investment on a particular then you can simply divest that coin, then reinvest on the same coin with a higher value. So long as you wait long enough for the divestment fee to disappear, there is no downside to doing this.

[pinkman12345]

What is estimated daily profit on 100 ETH bankroll?

[NobFox]

I'm very pleased with all my investments in CG so far, with the exception of PPC which only ever seems to drop.

The chart tells a different story.



I did notice a high roller enjoying the 1.02x recently. If that run of luck comes to an abrupt end your investment is likely to spike.

Please point this chart out to my active investment. It hasn't heard that it should be going up yet.


Also, that chart is over two years - not the week I've had it in so far and the two weeks I tried last time before getting weak hands and pulling it out.

[Don Pedro Dinero]

I'm very pleased with all my investments in CG so far, with the exception of PPC which only ever seems to drop.

The chart tells a different story.



I did notice a high roller enjoying the 1.02x recently. If that run of luck comes to an abrupt end your investment is likely to spike.

Please point this chart out to my active investment. It hasn't heard that it should be going up yet.


Also, that chart is over two years - not the week I've had it in so far and the two weeks I tried last time before getting weak hands and pulling it out.

The shorter your investment, the more likely it is that you are going to have a loss, due to variance, especially with those coins.

It is normal that the most common coins, like Bitcoin or Ethereum get a higher number of bets than coins like PPC during a one or two or week period, so variance is higher with the latter.

[robodude]

Has anyone had problems making deposits recently?

[chris200x9]

What is estimated daily profit on 100 ETH bankroll?

I think it is very hard to predict profits in bankroll investments because in some days you may make a good profit and sometimes you may lose some of your investments so if you're expecting steady profits then bankroll investments are not an option for you. No one can give you an accurate answer to your question. But in the long run, we can make a good profit from these investments.

[veleten]

What is estimated daily profit on 100 ETH bankroll?

I think it is very hard to predict profits in bankroll investments because in some days you may make a good profit and sometimes you may lose some of your investments so if you're expecting steady profits then bankroll investments are not an option for you. No one can give you an accurate answer to your question. But in the long run, we can make a good profit from these investments.

according to the stats in the table,an average ETH investment (think you meant investment,not the bankroll in your question)
brings around 0.7% profit weekly,if you invest 100 ETH you will be getting 0.1% of that sum daily
i.e. your average profit would be 0.1 ETH,factor in variance and such,because luck may change and the exact time you invest
there could appear a wild ETH whale who wins and leaves you in  the red

[TheQuin]

brings around 0.7% profit weekly,if you invest 100 ETH you will be getting 0.1% of that sum daily
i.e. your average profit would be 0.1 ETH,factor in variance and such,

Variance is the main issue here, you really can't look at it as being x much per day, you need to look at it as a long-term investment.

Just to give some figures to illustrate that even on a weekly basis how variable it is I made my first investment in the BTC bankroll back on the 12th September and made a note of the value each week since:

+1.66%
+0.70%
+0.11%
+0.05%
-0.04%
+0.14%
+0.12%
+2.40%
+0.09%
-0.04%
+0.24%

Giving a total return of 6.03% so far.

[Lutpin]

Variance on daily returns is way too high to use average numbers as "expected" returns.

(On top of that, I'd consider the theoretical number calculated from house edge, wagering volume and bankroll share as expected profit,
not the one calculated based on past profit.)

Has anyone had problems making deposits recently?

Havent seen anyone having problems.

[eternalgloom]

Are you also going to provide us with some nice graphs and tables like on the previous thread?
It would be nice if you could keep the format similar, it was a very nice looking overview in the OP.

Good that you're continuing this, I've always found it handy to use the previous thread as an example of possible investment with Bitcoin and/or altcoins.
I think I must have linked to that one dozens of times

Edit: either you've added the stats after my post or they were not loading for me before. Anyway, nice to see them there!

[Timetwister]

I'd add some more columns to the table: EV since you invested ((wagered*edge)/bankroll), and then a column for annualized returns (both for EV and actual profit).

[hatshepsut93]

Variance on daily returns is way too high to use average numbers as "expected" returns.

(On top of that, I'd consider the theoretical number calculated from house edge, wagering volume and bankroll share as expected profit,
not the one calculated based on past profit.)

But wagering volume and bankroll share are also past data, and they can change over time for various reasons. Wagering volume may be driven downwards to some extent by rising prices, while increase in casino's popularity will drive it upwards. Bankroll share can also have its own dynamic. So, even without variance it's not so easy to calculate "expected" return and it would probably require some economic modelling. But I'm not sure if it's really necessary for investors to do it, because they don't lose a single satoshi of their investment, except to potential variance, so there's no need to calculate if it's profitable or not - the math tells that it is expected to be profitable. The only reason for making  such deep analysis is if potential investor tries to compare future performance of different casinos.

[Lutpin]

But wagering volume and bankroll share are also past data, and they can change over time for various reasons. So, even without variance it's not so easy to calculate "expected" return and it would probably require some economic modelling.

As nobody can predict the future, expected return can only be calculated for past periods.
It's a way to measure actual (past) performance with theoretical values, not one to assess current or future possibilities.

[coindetective]

What is your affiliation to this website? I ask this I really like the website but there s always that question what happens if something goes wrong. I d like to know more about the people who run it.

[Lutpin]

I'm tracking my personal investments via a publicly available investment option.

[Don Pedro Dinero]

Looking forward to seeing those stats. I think there has been a decrease in the bitcoin profit percentage for the past two weeks, or at least that is what I have seen in my particular investment. I’d like to know if this has something to do with the current fees problem, so people are not depositing so much bitcoin, or if it’s just due to normal variance. However, if I wanted to play with bitcoin and also to avoid that problem, I could exchange the amount I wanted to deposit for Dogecoin (for example), deposit, and exchange it again for bitcoin in the site.

[Lutpin]

Looking forward to seeing those stats.

Numbers for this month are as following:

BTC investment: 0.192% increase.
ETH investment: 1.472% increase.
LTC investment: 1.623% increase.
XMR investment: 1.255% increase.
STRAT investment: 0.315% increase.
DOGE investment: 2.348% increase.
DASH investment: 2.304% increase.
PPC investment: 4.820% increase.
GRC investment: 2.212% increase.

Average return assuming same investment in all coins: 1.838% increase.

I'd add some more columns to the table: EV since you invested ((wagered*edge)/bankroll), and then a column for annualized returns (both for EV and actual profit).

Annualized returns have been added.
The direct EV I don't want to do, but I did calculate rollovers for each bankrolls, which loosely correspond to your expected returns.

I’d like to know if this has something to do with the current fees problem, so people are not depositing so much bitcoin, or if it’s just due to normal variance.

Both BTC and ETH have seen a pretty low rollover this month, with 46% and 66% (both of them have scaling problems, we're coming out of the CryptoKitties month after all).
However, both coins also have a huge bankroll compared to the other coins available at CG, so this might be a factor as well.
LTC, which shortly had fee problems as well, in comparison shows a decent rollover (120%).

[seekoin]

Hello,

Is it still possible to invest ? I've been promoting Crypto Games for a while but can't find the way to invest money in their bankroll.

[MinerHQ]

Hello,

Is it still possible to invest ? I've been promoting Crypto Games for a while but can't find the way to invest money in their bankroll.

Yes, it is still possible to invest in their bankroll. After you log in you need to look for invest button on a right-hand top corner. If you already have funds in your account then you can move them to invest. You should know that for short term there will be disinvestment fee but after few weeks there is no disinvestment fee. It is one of the good casino giving consistently profit to investors.

[TheQuin]

Yes, it is still possible to invest in their bankroll. After you log in you need to look for invest button on a right-hand top corner.  

It is temporarily closed to new investors. If you do not have an existing investment in the bankroll then the investment tab is now hidden.

http://blog.crypto-games.net/2017/12/temporarily-limiting-investment-feature.html

[MadZ]

Yes, it is still possible to invest in their bankroll. After you log in you need to look for invest button on a right-hand top corner.  

It is temporarily closed to new investors. If you do not have an existing investment in the bankroll then the investment tab is now hidden.

http://blog.crypto-games.net/2017/12/temporarily-limiting-investment-feature.html

This is rather upsetting, I was planning on making a non-trivial investment after seeing this thread. Is there any stated reason for this change or any indication that new investors will be allowed again?

[TheQuin]

Is there any stated reason for this change

With the recent dramatic increase in the value of cryptos, the bankroll has become extremely large in USD terms. There simply is no need to have a larger one for an online casino.

any indication that new investors will be allowed again?

I take the use of the word "temporarily" in the blog announcement to indicate that new investors will be allowed again at some point in the future.

[MadZ]

Is there any stated reason for this change

With the recent dramatic increase in the value of cryptos, the bankroll has become extremely large in USD terms. There simply is no need to have a larger one for an online casino.

any indication that new investors will be allowed again?

I take the use of the word "temporarily" in the blog announcement to indicate that new investors will be allowed again at some point in the future.

Understandable I suppose. To be honest, temporarily sounds more like indefinitely, which sounds a lot like never. I guess I could buy an account, but I'm not sure if that's against the ToS. Is 2FA removable?

[TheQuin]

Understandable I suppose. To be honest, temporarily sounds more like indefinitely, which sounds a lot like never.

I'd take a guess that circumstances would have to change. For example, if a number of large investors decided to divest to cash out profits.

I guess I could buy an account, but I'm not sure if that's against the ToS. Is 2FA removable?

From the ToS:

4.6. It is prohibited for players to sell, transfer and/or acquire accounts to/from other players.

2FA is removable but that's a moot point after checking the ToS.

[Lutpin]

Is there any stated reason for this change or any indication that new investors will be allowed again?

I expect investments to be opened up for everyone again once a new currency is being added, which might not be that far away.

I'll keep you updated on changes in this regard.

[Lutpin]

The original post has been updated with the current table and chart.
Numbers for January are as following:

BTC investment: 0.872% increase.
ETH investment: 0.271% increase.
LTC investment: 1.086% increase.
XMR investment: 0.244% increase.
STRAT investment: 1.553% increase.
DOGE investment: 1.585% increase.
DASH investment: 0.051% increase.
PPC investment: 0.720% decrease.
GRC investment: 3.613% decrease.

Average return assuming same investment in all coins: 0.148% increase.

[SyGambler]

did you stop tracking Lutpin or you planning to post February stats later ??
would like to see how other coins are doing since I have only some bitcoin , litecoin and dash invested

[Lutpin]

Numbers for February are as following:

BTC investment: 1.085% increase.
ETH investment: 1.775% increase.
LTC investment: 1.797% increase.
XMR investment: 0.682% increase.
STRAT investment: 1.122% increase.
DOGE investment: 1.041% increase.
DASH investment: 1.654% decrease.
PPC investment: 0.272% increase.
GRC investment: Delisted.
GAS investment: 0.207% increase. (Investment started on the 14th)

Average return assuming same investment in all coins: 0.703% increase.

Charts and in-detail update to the OP will follow in a bit have been added as well.
As GRC has been removed and GAS has been added, I think it would be best to create a GRC/GAS line in the chart, to keep things simple for comparison.

did you stop tracking Lutpin or you planning to post February stats later ??
would like to see how other coins are doing since I have only some bitcoin , litecoin and dash invested

I'm using the 30 day stats to determine rollovers. As February has only 28 days and March has 31,
I have done these calculations 1 day later (-> February 29 / March 30), to be more accurate with the stats I use.

[Lutpin]

First off, the good news: Investment are open again (they should be available for everyone and all coins right now).
Also, there will be two additional coins available in the next months, starting with BCH coming very soon.


Now the numbers for March (Month #4), they are as following:

BTC investment: 0.221% increase.
ETH investment: 2.823% increase.
LTC investment: 0.919% increase.
XMR investment: 0.011% decrease.
STRAT investment: 2.122% increase.
DOGE investment: 1.283% increase.
DASH investment: 0.038% decrease.
PPC investment: 4.779% increase.
GAS investment: 0.185% increase.

Average return assuming same investment in all coins: 1.365% increase.

[legendster]

First off, the good news: Investment are open again (they should be available for everyone and all coins right now).

+1 I was randomly browsing and landed here to learn about this piece of information.
And just confirming that as of today the investment feature for new users is still available.

[Lutpin]

Here are the numbers for April (Month #5), as following:

BTC investment: 0.563% increase.
ETH investment: 0.467% increase.
LTC investment: 0.142% increase.
XMR investment: 0.408% increase.
STRAT investment: 3.217% increase.
DOGE investment: 1.146% increase.
DASH investment: 0.643% decrease.
PPC investment: 1.459% increase.
GAS investment: 0.688% decrease.
BCH investment: 0.337% increase. (stats from 25th to 1st)

Average return assuming same investment in all coins: 0.650% increase.


The OP has been updated with the current chart summarizing all months so far and table containing more information (eg rollovers).
BCH has been added and will be fully tracked from this month onward, not quite sure how to integrate it into the chart, yet.

[SimplyRouge2]

These seems to be quite an interesting investment, and I like the tracking you have provided. 

Could I please know what the current bank rolls are to get an idea of % of ownership in each of the coins?

[TheQuin]

The current bankrolls are:

BCH      BitCoinCash   370.78694202   
BTC      BitCoin      1,546.75483643   
DASH   Dash         1,187.15579082   
DOGE   DogeCoin      137,486,796.69857965   
ETH      Ethereum      23,394.99347065   
GAS      NeoGas      6,222.17365689   
LTC      LiteCoin      16,740.14130770   
PPC      PeerCoin      14,399.06206053   
STRAT   Stratis      36,318.28009347   
XMR      Monero      5,763.86438054

[Lutpin]

Could I please know what the current bank rolls are to get an idea of % of ownership in each of the coins?

I've used rollover in my table, as I consider this a more important stat than the plain bankroll size.
Eg having a 5% share or a 10% share in a coin with 100% monthly rollover will give you the same expected profit (compared to your investment).
However having a 5% share in a 50% monthly rollover coin and a 250% monthly rollover coin results in very different expected returns.
You can see this eg with PPC and BTC this month, where I hold a similar share of the bankroll, PPC has a way higher profit due to its constantly higher rollover.

The current bankrolls are

Or sorted by value (denominated in BTC):

ETH - 23,395 (1806 BTC)
BTC - 1,547 (1546 BTC)
LTC - 16,739 (276 BTC)
XMR - 5,764 (154 BTC)
DOGE - 137.5M (82 BTC)
DASH - 1,187 (62 BTC)
BCH - 371 (59 BTC)
STRAT - 36,318 (30 BTC)
GAS - 6,222 (20.6 BTC)
PPC - 14,401 (4.26 BTC)

[DarkStar_]

BTC - 1,547 (1546 BTC)

:thinking:

[Lutpin]

BTC - 1,547 (1546 BTC)

:thinking:

That's what happens when you suck at rounding

[coincruncher1982]

Is it still possible to invest? I'm interested in investing in crypto gambling.

[TheQuin]

Is it still possible to invest? I'm interested in investing in crypto gambling.

Yes, investments were reopened to new investors when they added Bcash.

https://blog.crypto-games.net/2018/04/added-bitcoincash.html

[coincruncher1982]

Is it still possible to invest? I'm interested in investing in crypto gambling.

Yes, investments were reopened to new investors when they added Bcash.

https://blog.crypto-games.net/2018/04/added-bitcoincash.html

I see. How do I join as an investor?

[Lutpin]

I see. How do I join as an investor?

You deposit the coins you want to invest, wait for enough confirmations and then visit

Your account -> Invest

Click Add investment, enter the details, click +add and you're done.

[squatz1]

I see. How do I join as an investor?

You deposit the coins you want to invest, wait for enough confirmations and then visit

Your account -> Invest

Click Add investment, enter the details, click +add and you're done.

Don't know if you're still doing this now, but if so -- what's the investments looking like -- profit wise?

[Lutpin]

Don't know if you're still doing this now, but if so -- what's the investments looking like -- profit wise?

As the title says, this is a monthly thread.
The stats for the months December to April (the last full month) are in the original post, that's how the investments are looking like right now.
The next update will happen in early June with the stats for this month, May, no new stats before that.

[yogib]

Since I got no reply from coingamblingreviews after posting in his thread, could you please check if I got my numbers right, Lutpin? From what I've seen in my own investments, his recent numbers for Crypto-Games should be much higher instead of almost stagnating for the last ten weeks or so.

[squatz1]

Ah, sorry about that -- missed that part in the thread.

Is there anything you would want to advise people if they were to get involved with gambling investments? Is there anything you wish you knew when you started?

[Lutpin]

Since I got no reply from coingamblingreviews after posting in his thread, could you please check if I got my numbers right, Lutpin? From what I've seen in my own investments, his recent numbers for Crypto-Games should be much higher instead of almost stagnating for the last ten weeks or so.

My investment since the 1st is up by 0.35% which is in line with your 4 week and 5 week results of 0.29% and 0.37%

Is there anything you would want to advise people if they were to get involved with gambling investments? Is there anything you wish you knew when you started?

A lot of people only compare based on one factor, eg they look for the highest house edge, or the highest total wagers, but ignore other things that have an impact on your profits.
One number I feel is very important but doesn't get looked at as much is the rollovers (bankroll to wager ratio), which is eg why PPC has a way higher profit than BTC, even though having little traffic.
So my advice would be to take a look at all numbers when comparing investments, not just a single aspect of them.

[Lutpin]

Time files and it's already been half a year since I started tracking.
The OP has been updated with the current chart summarizing all months so far and table containing more information (eg rollovers).

Here are the numbers for May (Month #6):

BTC investment: 0.350% increase.
ETH investment: 0.159% increase.
LTC investment: 0.670% increase.
XMR investment: 0.947% increase.
STRAT investment: 0.787% increase.
DOGE investment: 0.964% increase.
DASH investment: 6.152% increase.
PPC investment: 0.882% increase.
GAS investment: 0.053% increase.
BCH investment: 1.011% increase.

Average return assuming same investment in all coins: 1.198% increase.

Despite a slightly lower average rollover (79.65% compared to 103.49% the month before), the average investment increase has almost doubled from 0.65% to 1.198%.
In May, all tracked investments have been showing positive returns (last time this happened was December / Month 1), and they have mostly been in the same/expected area.
Visible exception is DASH, which jumped by over 6.15%, bringing it from a previously negative to now 6.133% total increase. Which leaves GAS/GRC as only coin being down overall in the 6 month period.

[Lutpin]

Chart and Table in the OP have been updated, I've slightly improved styling on both of them.
(eg the time invested now fits the month, it previously started at 1, now starts at 0 as it's supposed to)

Here are the numbers for June (Month #7):

BTC investment: 0.342% increase.
ETH investment: 0.152% increase.
LTC investment: 2.168% increase.
XMR investment: 0.466% increase.
STRAT investment: 1.769% increase.
DOGE investment: 3.983% increase.
DASH investment: 0.078% increase.
PPC investment: 3.001% increase.
GAS investment: 2.833% increase.
BCH investment: 4.089% increase.

Average return assuming same investment in all coins: 1.888% increase.

The average rollover has improved a little, but is still below the previous months (79.65% improved to 88.22%).
Regardless, the average investment increase has significantly increased once again (been at 0.65% two months ago) from 1.198% to 1.888%.
Like in May, this month all tracked investments have been showing positive returns, and all investments are now positive over the whole tracked period, with DASH and GAS leaving the red numbers.
Visible exception this month is BCH, which jumped by over 4.089% and provided the best return to investors, besides having a below average rollover with ~80%.

[Muttley]

Awesome returns Lutpin. Congrats all investors.

[Lutpin]

As I've been asked to provide the rollovers for all months (not just the current one) for better comparison, I've figured I'd make a small post with a table including all rollovers so far based on coin/month.



(The dark blue bars might be a bit confusing, as their size is based on comparison to the biggest rollover that month only, so 50% bars are bigger in some months and smaller in others.)

[Lutpin]

Cross-posting this from the official thread as it should be interesting to investors as well (especially those with a bigger investment amount that might be affected by the limits once divested and withdrawn).

Just a quick question. Do you also get instant withdraws when you win (and cash out) like 500 ETH or more?

The main limitation there is hot wallet size, big transactions like that can quickly reach the full amount of the available hot wallet (as the hot wallet size is limited for security reasons),
and thus be delayed simply by the fact there aren't enough funds in the automatic system to be processed, which then needs manual interference of someone moving funds to refill the hot wallets.

Determining the full hot wallet for most coins is hard, as all funds are spread over many different addresses, with ETH however, there is just one main address,
so we can plot the balance of that one to guesstimate the "instantly available" funds.
Doing so from block 1,012,078 (Feb 2016) results in the following graph:



As you can see, at one point, there were almost 10k ETH in the hot wallet (though that spike is just short, as the funds of course were quickly moved into a more secure storage location).
While that historic chart is nice to look at, it doesn't give us much information about the current situation (numbers from 2 years ago are kinda outdated, especially with all the price changes since).
So let's zoom in a little, and look at a graph for the last 4 months:



While the wallet balance fell below 100 ETH a few times, most of the time withdrawals of at least 200 ETH could be processed instantly from the available funds in the hot wallet,
with there being at least 500 ETH or at least 1000 ETH available a fair amount of time as well.

I have no way to know about Mayson's transactions, but I would guess the latest drop in hot funds from cca 450 to cca 50 comes from them withdrawing what they had won at one point.
Which also means their withdrawals have been processed instantly from the hot wallet, but that is (as already mentioned) just a guess.

I was planning to do more extensive charts/stats in higher intervals, eg every 6 months or every year.
If you have suggestions about what additional information you would find interesting to be included in those, let me know.

[thenerdyone314]

A lot of people only compare based on one factor, eg they look for the highest house edge, or the highest total wagers, but ignore other things that have an impact on your profits.
One number I feel is very important but doesn't get looked at as much is the rollovers (bankroll to wager ratio), which is eg why PPC has a way higher profit than BTC, even though having little traffic.
So my advice would be to take a look at all numbers when comparing investments, not just a single aspect of them.

To make sure I'm understanding the rollover correctly, if you say you have a 50% rollover, that means that if the bankroll is 100 coin then 50 coin were wagered that month?

[Lutpin]

To make sure I'm understanding the rollover correctly, if you say you have a 50% rollover, that means that if the bankroll is 100 coin then 50 coin were wagered that month?

That's correct, as explained in the original post, rollover is a simple comparison between all combined wagers in a month and the current bankroll.

Explanations:

Rollover: The rollover is calculated based on total wagers and bankroll size, it ignores different house edges and is shown in percent.

[Lutpin]

I've written down the numbers and stats for last month, however the update to the thread will be a bit delayed
due to a hardware error and me not keeping an external backup of the exel file I use to do the table/charts.

I'll go buy a screwdriver tomorrow and get an update out by the end of the week month.


ETC has been added and will be tracked from this month going forward.
With ETC coming into the chart, I'll also take a second look at how to integrate BCH and might be adjusting the GRC/GAS line.

[Muttley]

Think it changed some time ago: Minimum investment is: 25.00000000 STRAT  (init. post says 5 STRAT)   

[Timetwister]

If I understand correctly, the posted stats in the first message refer to a 7 months investment period, right?

Does that take into account the 30% comission that the casino takes on investors profit?

Thanks.

[Lutpin]

Think it changed some time ago: Minimum investment is: 25.00000000 STRAT  (init. post says 5 STRAT)

Yes, I forgot to update it, thanks for the headsup. Done now.

If I understand correctly, the posted stats in the first message refer to a 7 months investment period, right?

The chart in the first post currently covers returns for the months December to June (so 7 months).
The table in the first post includes stats for the total period (those 7 months), as well as detailed stats for just the last month (June).

An update for the numbers for July is upcoming in the next days, it was (/is) delayed by a few problems I've had to face over here.

Does that take into account the 30% comission that the casino takes on investors profit?

The numbers I provide are directly taken from my own investments as a player/user of the site.
As such, they are (almost) 100% identical with the returns other investors get, and thus verifiable by everyone who runs an investment themselves,
should someone see a discepancy between the stats I report and their own numbers, I hope they inform me about my mistake so I can correct it.

With that being said, yes the 70% factor (not a direct commission, as the house takes 30% of investors profit, but also carries 30% of the loses, should there be any) is included in my tracking.
Numbers reported here are directly representative of my own and other investors profit.

[Timetwister]

Thanks Lutpin. Please keep updating this thread, it’s very useful.

[Lutpin]

It's been a delay of nearly a month, but I managed to reconstruct the data I have used in previous tracking and everything should be the same from now on.
The chart and table in the OP have been updated with the numbers for July, another update with numbers for August will follow in the next days.

Here are the numbers for July (Month #8):

BTC investment: 0.232% increase.
ETH investment: 5.850% increase.
LTC investment: 1.143% increase.
XMR investment: 0.013% decrease.
STRAT investment: 1.664% increase.
DOGE investment: 2.414% increase.
DASH investment: 0.182% decrease.
PPC investment: 1.185% decrease.
GAS investment: 0.015% increase.
BCH investment: 0.285% increase.

Average return assuming same investment in all coins: 1.022% increase.

The average rollover has once again improved a little, and in July was almost exactly the average bankroll size (100% rollover).
The average investment increase is at 1%, which is a bit more than expected based on rollover, and a decent result (especially seeing how the averag returns are steady at or above 1%).
Clear story of July (and probably of August as well) is ETH and the big rollover there, together with the huge increase in investments (5,85%) which helps offset some of the smaller decreases eg on DAS and XMR.
I didn't run the numbers, but if I were to do a weighted average, the number would have an even bigger impact, since ETHs bankroll is the biggest and makes up for almost 50% of the total combined bankroll.

Once again, sorry for the delay. I hope I can provide all further tracking on time. Thanks for sticking with us

[Timetwister]

It would be great if you added also the expected return in the investment period, to have a better idea of what can be expected in the future.

For example, Dogecoin has had the biggest returns, but it seems that's because it's running way over EV: https://dicesites.com/crypto-games/doge

[Lutpin]

It would be great if you added also the expected return in the investment period, to have a better idea of what can be expected in the future.
For example, Dogecoin has had the biggest returns, but it seems that's because it's running way over EV: https://dicesites.com/crypto-games/doge

Ok, there's a few things to unpack here.

I've gone with bankroll rollover numbers because they are easy to calculate (combined monthly wagers / bankroll on the 1st * 100), and give you a fair idea of how active a coin is being played,
as well as what to expect in terms of profit. For a simplified overview, imho, this stat is both quick to retrieve and good for comparison.
 
To calculate actual EV numbers however, collecting only a combined wager stat is not enough.
As the EV calculates based on what players are expected to lose (together with the 70% factor,...) and this is based on the house edge of the games they play, I'd need to collect dedicated stats for all games.
This would bring the wager numbers I'm tracking from 1 per coin to 6 per coin (so roughly 50 additional stats to be tracked and calculated).


Now why does DOGE show numbers way over EV (currently 160%) on dicesites? From my previous answer, you can probably already guess the reason.
Similar to how I do it, dicesites only collects the combined total wagers from CryptoGames (there is no API for wagers per game yet, afaik).
The way they calculate EV is based on that combined total stat and the house edge on dice (given their name, that makes sense), 0.8%.
What's being ignored there is that other games have higher house edges, most of them in the 1%-2% area, roulette even at 2.7%.

If the EV was calculated based on every game with the correct house edge for that game, the number would come down and be near the 100%, where it is expected to be.

This is nothing exclusive to DOGE, as most other coins show similar numbers:
STRAT at 200%, PPC at 180%, XMR at 170%, DASH at 200%, LTC at 190%, ETH at 150% and BTC at 200%

If you take ETH for example, out of 140k ETH wagered last month, only 56k are on dice, and over 85k are on roulette.
Given the higher house edge on roulette, higher profit for this month is not an anomaly, but something you would expect.

[Timetwister]

Now why does DOGE show numbers way over EV (currently 160%) on dicesites? From my previous answer, you can probably already guess the reason.
Similar to how I do it, dicesites only collects the combined total wagers from CryptoGames (there is no API for wagers per game yet, afaik).
The way they calculate EV is based on that combined total stat and the house edge on dice (given their name, that makes sense), 0.8%.
What's being ignored there is that other games have higher house edges, most of them in the 1%-2% area, roulette even at 2.7%.

If the EV was calculated based on every game with the correct house edge for that game, the number would come down and be near the 100%, where it is expected to be.

This is nothing exclusive to DOGE, as most other coins show similar numbers:
STRAT at 200%, PPC at 180%, XMR at 170%, DASH at 200%, LTC at 190%, ETH at 150% and BTC at 200%

If you take ETH for example, out of 140k ETH wagered last month, only 56k are on dice, and over 85k are on roulette.
Given the higher house edge on roulette, higher profit for this month is not an anomaly, but something you would expect.

I didn't know that, that makes investing quite more attractive than I thought at first (although after Dogecoin doubling in a few days it will be better to wait some time to get any).

I'd suggest adding the annualized return since you started investing, not just last month's annualized return.

[Kasperiko]

An excellent review and what is more gratifying is that now much has become clear before our eyes. Sorry I can not put merit for such an excellent job!
What do you think from your understanding of the market, the graphs fully prove the theory that once a month, in proportion to the prices on the market, you need to calibrate the portfolio of crypto-currencies? Or is it better to leave almost all of the money in the top three and leave 10% for speculation?

[Lutpin]

I've missed out on doing an update for August, so there's two sets of numbers incoming, first off, the catching up for the missed update, the numbers for the prior month, August.
And shortly after, I'll also do the September update, so we're back on track. Due to this, the August update will only be in text (and included in the September chart), but I won't update the OP for it.

Here are the numbers for August (Month #9):

BTC investment: 0.540% increase.
ETH investment: 10.787% increase.
LTC investment: 1.720% increase.
XMR investment: 0.433% increase.
STRAT investment: 5.972% increase.
DOGE investment: 2.834% increase.
DASH investment: 0.716% decrease.
PPC investment: 4.957% decrease.
GAS investment: 14.687% increase.
BCH investment: 19.129% increase.
And the newly added ETC investment: 2.632% increase.

Average return assuming same investment in all coins: 4.824% increase.

And some rollover numbers since there is no table for this month:
The average rollover was 382.96%, by far the highest since I started tracking monthly rollovers.
Biggest percentage on a single coin had BCH with 1,611% rollover, followed by ETH with 650% and PPC with 615%.
Lowest rollovers were at Dash and BTC (55%).

The big surprise that month is certainly ETH, which has a big bankroll, and yet also provided big returns.
GAS and BCH had even bigger gains, but have lower bankrolls, so a breakout is not that surprising.
BTC has been slow for a few months now, in part due to low bankroll rollover, and in equal parts due to players being lucky on BTC for the last months.


For better navigation, I have added a quicklink section to the first reply. Currently, there are links to all monthly update posts for quick browsing there.
I will also list posts or particular interest in the list, like the monthly rollover comparison, or the ETH hotwallet chart.

I hope this helps people finding the things they are searching for more quickly.

Monthly updates:

December [1]: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2445163.msg27312374#msg27312374
January [2]: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2445163.msg29405814#msg29405814
February [3]: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2445163.msg31449414#msg31449414
March [4]: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2445163.msg33872922#msg33872922
April [5]: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2445163.msg36085478#msg36085478
May [6]: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2445163.msg39245245#msg39245245
June [7]: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2445163.msg41336068#msg41336068
July [8]: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2445163.msg44995393#msg44995393
August [9]: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2445163.msg46443989#msg46443989

Special posts:

Rollovers: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2445163.msg42120737#msg42120737
ETH Hot-Wallet monitoring: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2445163.msg42552847#msg42552847

[eternalgloom]

There's something I've been meaning to ask you.

I was planning on writing an article about the investments on Crypto Games, I'd like to also mention this thread, add a short summary and a link to the thread of course.
Now I was wondering if I could use one of your charts as a (secondary) image in that article. I'll add proper references to you and your thread.

Let me know if that's something you'd be comfortable with, me using the image, I mean.

Replying here instead of sending a pm, just so the possible permission is publicly visible.

[pingpongball]

Unfortunately it seems as if BTC and ETH are no longer options for investing.

[Lutpin]

We're missing one month of stats, so here's those for September (Month #10):

BTC investment: 0.130% decrease.
ETH investment: 3.212% increase.
LTC investment: 0.807% increase.
XMR investment: 4.140% increase.
STRAT investment: 2.500% increase.
DOGE investment: 5.891% increase.
DASH investment: 0.144% decrease.
PPC investment: 9.731% increase.
GAS investment: 0.479% increase.
BCH investment: 1.663% decrease.
ETC investment: 2.794% increase.

Average return assuming same investment in all coins: 2.511% increase.

Biggest rollover was on Doge with 550%, resulting due to a big decrease in the bankroll size (doge prizes increased, some investors opted to sell their holdings).
The average rollover was 207%, around half the average rollover of the month before, and the average investment increase is also roughly half the one of the previous month.
For the first time in 10 tracked months, the BTC investment has shown negative returns. I don't think I spoil too much for next month when I say this is not going to stay the case.

I was planning on writing an article about the investments on Crypto Games, I'd like to also mention this thread, add a short summary and a link to the thread of course.
Now I was wondering if I could use one of your charts as a (secondary) image in that article. I'll add proper references to you and your thread.

I'm currently working on a way to better present the charts and tables.
Ideally something that would be interactive, letting you compare selected coins to each other, or browse only a certain timeframe.
As the images like they are now are outdated and going to be replaced soon with that upgrade, you can use them in whatever way you wish.
Once I've done the new version, and if you want to further use my investment overview in your articles, we can discuss if and how you can use those new charts and tables.

I translated your thread into Russian. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5032640.0

Thanks for giving those that aren't able to speak english a chance to understand/access my information as well.

Unfortunately it seems as if BTC and ETH are no longer options for investing.

Indeed, investments for BTC and ETH are closed for new investors right now, the topic has been discussed earlier in this thread already, I think,
and I continue tracking all my investments for the sake of completion.

[NJB18]

Hmm. Some of those altcoin investor gains are looking good. Bitcoin gains aren't really that big since most investors are into it. I might invest most of my sleeping altcoins while the market is still waiting for a recovery.

[Lutpin]

Closing in on on year worth of stats, here's those for October (Month #11):

BTC investment: 3.667% increase.
ETH investment: 1.043% increase.
LTC investment: 3.421% increase.
XMR investment: 1.275% increase.
STRAT investment: 0.427% increase.
DOGE investment: 7.942% increase.
DASH investment: 0.680% decrease.
PPC investment: 8.909% increase.
GAS investment: 1.284% increase.
BCH investment: 8.611% decrease.
ETC investment: 4.772% increase.

Average return assuming same investment in all coins: 3.697% increase.

A really good month again, overall. The average increase is almost 4% and with just one month missing for the first full year, we're nearing a 20% total increase on average.
Notable this month was a huge rollover on doge (over 1200%). Another thing worth pointing out is the continue of DASH's underperformance. Despite having alright rollovers and a relatively small bankroll, dash investments are by far the poorest performing ones over the full period (yet still up 4%, which is an alright apr).

[NJB18]

Cool decent numbers. Mr. Lutpin I can see your name with some huge investments there. Are you the owner or partially? Or just someone with big investments there? You know the owner/s personally? Thanks.

[eternalgloom]

Once I've done the new version, and if you want to further use my investment overview in your articles, we can discuss if and how you can use those new charts and tables

Okay, that's completely fine by me. Thanks!

Sorry for the late reply, only just noticed.

[statdude]

Cool decent numbers. Mr. Lutpin I can see your name with some huge investments there. Are you the owner or partially? Or just someone with big investments there? You know the owner/s personally? Thanks.

Did this every get answered, or are the owners of this site public in any way? Do investors "own" anything or are they essentially just gambling by sending funds for a bankroll?

[Timetwister]

Cool decent numbers. Mr. Lutpin I can see your name with some huge investments there. Are you the owner or partially? Or just someone with big investments there? You know the owner/s personally? Thanks.

Did this every get answered, or are the owners of this site public in any way? Do investors "own" anything or are they essentially just gambling by sending funds for a bankroll?

Everything in life is "gambling", there's nothing 100% safe. Investors are part of the bankroll, and get 65% of the winnings that part of the bankroll generates.

[TheQuin]

Cool decent numbers. Mr. Lutpin I can see your name with some huge investments there. Are you the owner or partially? Or just someone with big investments there? You know the owner/s personally? Thanks.

Did this every get answered, or are the owners of this site public in any way? Do investors "own" anything or are they essentially just gambling by sending funds for a bankroll?

The owners of the site both have accounts on this forum and regularly post in their service thread. As an investor, you own a share of the bankroll. Doing that means you are taking the other side of customers bets which is very much the definition of gambling. The difference is the investors have the house edge on their side and a positive outcome is statistically likely but not guaranteed.

[squatz1]

Might be grave-digging here, but is there any-chance you'd be able to update this Lutpin?

Very interesting to see the growth.

[Lutpin]

Might be grave-digging here, but is there any-chance you'd be able to update this Lutpin?

Very interesting to see the growth.

I do still make monthly snapshots of my investments, so no data is lost while this thread isn't being updated. However, I currently do not have that raw data prepared and presentable in any form.

The main reason I stopped doing updates here is because I really didn't like the way I was presenting the returns.
My plan is to transition to an interactive chart that allows all readers to gain more information and value from it than the previous screenshots of a chart and table do.
I've occasionally worked on preparing that and on carrying over the data from the old format to the new one, but that's low priority for me and I've been kept busy by other things.
If I have some surplus free time, maybe once summer vacations come along, I'd be more than happy to finish that up and add the months currently missing.
Updates should also be easier for me to make, once everything is set in the new place.

If there's a huge demand for the data meanwhile, I could also make some limited updates to this thread until the new format is ready, eg only do updates on BTC and ETH.
Let me know what you think about both, and how many people would be interested in it, if anyone.

[Timetwister]

Might be grave-digging here, but is there any-chance you'd be able to update this Lutpin?

Very interesting to see the growth.

I do still make monthly snapshots of my investments, so no data is lost while this thread isn't being updated. However, I currently do not have that raw data prepared and presentable in any form.

The main reason I stopped doing updates here is because I really didn't like the way I was presenting the returns.
My plan is to transition to an interactive chart that allows all readers to gain more information and value from it than the previous screenshots of a chart and table do.
I've occasionally worked on preparing that and on carrying over the data from the old format to the new one, but that's low priority for me and I've been kept busy by other things.
If I have some surplus free time, maybe once summer vacations come along, I'd be more than happy to finish that up and add the months currently missing.
Updates should also be easier for me to make, once everything is set in the new place.

If there's a huge demand for the data meanwhile, I could also make some limited updates to this thread until the new format is ready, eg only do updates on BTC and ETH.
Let me know what you think about both, and how many people would be interested in it, if anyone.

I'd love to see updates. Even just BTC would be fine. DOGE could be interesting too as it had the highest returns I think.

I personally keep a small investment since July last year to track how profitable investing here has been (which is useful to estimate how much it will be in the future too).

[Timetwister]

After having found out in the main thread that the graph doesn't really show profits, but "profits" before some expenses, your work is even more appreciated, Lutpin, so it would be great if you kept updating it.

You could simply show a table with all coins in a column and then one column every month, with the invested balance at that time. Therefore we could see how profitable would it had been to invest in each coin since you started tracking them (and how volatile the investment was).

[squatz1]

Might be grave-digging here, but is there any-chance you'd be able to update this Lutpin?

Very interesting to see the growth.

I do still make monthly snapshots of my investments, so no data is lost while this thread isn't being updated. However, I currently do not have that raw data prepared and presentable in any form.

The main reason I stopped doing updates here is because I really didn't like the way I was presenting the returns.
My plan is to transition to an interactive chart that allows all readers to gain more information and value from it than the previous screenshots of a chart and table do.
I've occasionally worked on preparing that and on carrying over the data from the old format to the new one, but that's low priority for me and I've been kept busy by other things.
If I have some surplus free time, maybe once summer vacations come along, I'd be more than happy to finish that up and add the months currently missing.
Updates should also be easier for me to make, once everything is set in the new place.

If there's a huge demand for the data meanwhile, I could also make some limited updates to this thread until the new format is ready, eg only do updates on BTC and ETH.
Let me know what you think about both, and how many people would be interested in it, if anyone.

Would without a doubt just like to see BTC personally. I would think there is some demand here either way! For anything really.

[squatz1]

Not trying to rush you or anything buddy, just wanted to know if we'd be getting an update at some point?

Even a ballpark percentage is fine for BTC/BCH or whatever is easiest for you. Just like to see if this would be worth it to get involved in!

[demure]

Are they open for new investors at the moment? Where can I find investors area on their website? What is the minimum amount of BTC can I invest in?

[batang_bitcoin]

Where can I find investors area on their website?

Play Now > Your account > Invest

What is the minimum amount of BTC can I invest in?

This is shown in the FAQ. 0.01 for BTC and you can also see the other altcoins minimum investment there.

[stomachgrowls]

Where can I find investors area on their website?

Play Now > Your account > Invest

What is the minimum amount of BTC can I invest in?

This is shown in the FAQ. 0.01 for BTC and you can also see the other altcoins minimum investment there.

Okay lets put up some image here;



These are the coins which you do able to invest on.

"Minimum investment amounts are: 0.01 Bitcoin, 0.25 Ethereum, 0.5 Dash, 1 Litecoin, 1 Monero, 20,000 Dogecoin, 0.1 Bitcoin Cash, 15 NeoGas, 5 Ethereum Classic and 100 Stratis."

[squatz1]

Not trying to rush you or anything buddy, just wanted to know if we'd be getting an update at some point?

Even a ballpark percentage is fine for BTC/BCH or whatever is easiest for you. Just like to see if this would be worth it to get involved in!

Just going to bump this again, would love to see the info.