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Author Topic: Is Bitcoin legally a Currency?  (Read 3673 times)
BitcoinBarrel
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June 27, 2013, 01:16:36 PM
 #1

I just don't get it.... why people are getting into legal trouble with Bitcoin. How can they say you need a Money transmitter license for Bitcoin? What is the difference between Bitcoin and Swagbucks or XBox points? To me it's just a digital product with no need for Government regulation at all.



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BitcoinBarrel
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June 27, 2013, 04:00:28 PM
 #2

And I don't want to hear about that "Cash equivalent" nonsense. Every THING is a cash equivalent.



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crumbs
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June 27, 2013, 04:21:15 PM
 #3

TL;DR: yes.
It is a virtual currency as defined by by FinCen.  The reason it was defined as such is FinCen wanted control over it.  By virtue of being defined as currency, presently FinCen does.  The exactingly codified body of law exists to avoid ambiguity & need of deferral to "common sense."  If you disagree with the law, you can disobey it or work to change it.  If you choose the latter, appealing to logic & analogies usually ends in tears & fail.
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June 27, 2013, 05:16:10 PM
 #4

It is a virtual currency as defined by by FinCen.  The reason it was defined as such is FinCen wanted control over it.  By virtue of being defined as currency, presently FinCen does.  The exactingly codified body of law exists to avoid ambiguity & need of deferral to "common sense."  If you disagree with the law, you can disobey it or work to change it.  If you choose the latter, appealing to logic & analogies usually ends in tears & fail.
Fortunately U.S. is not the single country on the Earth! Grin
MSantori
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June 27, 2013, 07:39:19 PM
 #5

FinCen has chosen to - practically speaking - disregard any differences between virtual currency and fiat.  With very few exceptions, if your business would be a money transmitter for its use of fiat, it is a money transmitter for its use of BTC, LTC, etc.

Marco Santori is a lawyer, but not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.  If you do have specific questions, though, please don't hesitate to PM me.  We've learned this forum isn't 100% secure, so you might prefer to email me.  Maybe I can help!  Depending upon your jurisdiction, this post might be construed as attorney advertising, so: attorney advertising Smiley
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June 27, 2013, 07:41:56 PM
 #6

It is a virtual currency as defined by by FinCen.  The reason it was defined as such is FinCen wanted control over it.  By virtue of being defined as currency, presently FinCen does.  The exactingly codified body of law exists to avoid ambiguity & need of deferral to "common sense."  If you disagree with the law, you can disobey it or work to change it.  If you choose the latter, appealing to logic & analogies usually ends in tears & fail.
Fortunately U.S. is not the single country on the Earth! Grin
Amen to that. If I lived in the US right now I would be pretty intent on getting the hell out of there. And I'm not saying anything against the people, I am talking about the government.
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bool eval(bool b){return b ? b==true : b==false;}


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June 27, 2013, 07:59:51 PM
 #7

So bitcoin is considered a currency? That is good news, I suppose!

The paining (sic!) is done with the QPainter class inside the paintEvent() method.
(source: my internet)
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June 28, 2013, 12:33:21 AM
 #8

I just don't get it.... why people are getting into legal trouble with Bitcoin. How can they say you need a Money transmitter license for Bitcoin? What is the difference between Bitcoin and Swagbucks or XBox points? To me it's just a digital product with no need for Government regulation at all.


Fiat in, fiat out. There is your simple answer..

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BitcoinBarrel
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July 04, 2013, 08:05:16 PM
 #9

Quote
   c. De-Centralized Virtual Currencies

            A final type of convertible virtual currency activity involves a de-centralized convertible virtual currency (1) that has no central repository and no single administrator, and (2) that persons may obtain by their own computing or manufacturing effort.

            A person that creates units of this convertible virtual currency and uses it to purchase real or virtual goods and services is a user of the convertible virtual currency and not subject to regulation as a money transmitter. By contrast, a person that creates units of convertible virtual currency and sells those units to another person for real currency or its equivalent is engaged in transmission to another location and is a money transmitter. In addition, a person is an exchanger and a money transmitter if the person accepts such de-centralized convertible virtual currency from one person and transmits it to another person as part of the acceptance and transfer of currency, funds, or other value that substitutes for currency.

From http://fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidance/html/FIN-2013-G001.html



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rayfloyd
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July 05, 2013, 05:42:22 PM
 #10

I just don't get it.... why people are getting into legal trouble with Bitcoin. How can they say you need a Money transmitter license for Bitcoin? What is the difference between Bitcoin and Swagbucks or XBox points? To me it's just a digital product with no need for Government regulation at all.


Fiat in, fiat out. There is your simple answer..

Buy unusual hat (TF2) with USD, sell unusual hat.

Everything can be defined as "Fiat in, fiat out" as soon as it have a value.

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July 05, 2013, 08:46:31 PM
 #11

I just don't get it.... why people are getting into legal trouble with Bitcoin. How can they say you need a Money transmitter license for Bitcoin? What is the difference between Bitcoin and Swagbucks or XBox points? To me it's just a digital product with no need for Government regulation at all.


Fiat in, fiat out. There is your simple answer..

That is WAY oversimplified. If that was the case, then PayPal would not need to be licensed. Same with MoneyGram, Western Union, Square, etc. Using fiat has nothing to do with it.
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July 06, 2013, 04:23:45 PM
 #12

good morning, Expanding demand and growing widespread adoption has forced the hand of regulators. Bitcoin is defined as an open sourced project which presents a number of challenges and opportunities. We are working around the clock to address many of these issues especially relating to the blockchain integrity. If you have any questions i'd be more than happy to answer them for you.. Ira

Who are you Huh
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July 06, 2013, 04:29:26 PM
 #13

Unlike Xbox points, you can take your Crypto coins and convert them back into Fiat.  This is the reason the US gov't has a target on everything crypto at the moment.  All Crypto currency is atm, is a means to digitally transmit Fiat.  It may in time grow to become something more.  Which is the main reason I am here, not to make money, but would be awesome to be in on something as it is coming out of creation.

And doesn't matter what country in the world you are in (aside from maybe North Korea).  Once they put the label that Crypto coins are being used by terrorists to transfer funds, they pretty much will attack cryptocurrencies in no matter what country you happen to be doing business.

Check out AC3  @ https://ac3.io/
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July 06, 2013, 04:30:29 PM
 #14

good morning, Expanding demand and growing widespread adoption has forced the hand of regulators. Bitcoin is defined as an open sourced project which presents a number of challenges and opportunities. We are working around the clock to address many of these issues especially relating to the blockchain integrity. If you have any questions i'd be more than happy to answer them for you.. Ira

Who are you Huh


My bet is that he is Dank.

Buy bitcoins with cash from somebody near you: LocalBitcoins
Buy stuff on Amazon at a discount with bitcoins: Purse.io
Join an anti-signature campaign: DannyHamilton's ignore list
Vivisector999
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July 06, 2013, 04:46:11 PM
 #15

I just don't get it.... why people are getting into legal trouble with Bitcoin. How can they say you need a Money transmitter license for Bitcoin? What is the difference between Bitcoin and Swagbucks or XBox points? To me it's just a digital product with no need for Government regulation at all.


Fiat in, fiat out. There is your simple answer..

That is WAY oversimplified. If that was the case, then PayPal would not need to be licensed. Same with MoneyGram, Western Union, Square, etc. Using fiat has nothing to do with it.

That's the problem.  All those other companies you mention are licensed, and follow strict gov't guidelines when it comes to anonymity to those transferring large amounts (Over $10,000).  There have been a few Bitcoin companies that went legit/are going legit, so you won't have any more problems using them legally then you would using PayPal.  But the Cryptocurrency users have been nailing these companies in the forums, and stop doing business with them as using them is "The reason they use Cryptocurrency in the first place for complete anonymity"  MtGox is I believe currently going down the route of going legit.  It's not hard to find posts on this forum nailing them for doing so.

Check out AC3  @ https://ac3.io/
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July 06, 2013, 05:13:10 PM
 #16

good morning, Expanding demand and growing widespread adoption has forced the hand of regulators. Bitcoin is defined as an open sourced project which presents a number of challenges and opportunities. We are working around the clock to address many of these issues especially relating to the blockchain integrity. If you have any questions i'd be more than happy to answer them for you.. Ira

Who are you Huh



good day, check out the projects we are working on. Happy to help anyway I can..Ira

Welcome aboard, good to see you here.

FREE MONEY1 Bitcoin for Silver and Gold NewLibertyDollar.com and now BITCOIN SPECIE (silver 1 ozt) shows value by QR
Bulk premiums as low as .0012 BTC "BETTER, MORE COLLECTIBLE, AND CHEAPER THAN SILVER EAGLES" 1Free of Government
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July 06, 2013, 07:25:40 PM
 #17

good morning, Expanding demand and growing widespread adoption has forced the hand of regulators. Bitcoin is defined as an open sourced project which presents a number of challenges and opportunities. We are working around the clock to address many of these issues especially relating to the blockchain integrity. If you have any questions i'd be more than happy to answer them for you.. Ira

Who are you Huh



good day, check out the projects we are working on. Happy to help anyway I can..Ira

And I'm still stuck on the "who are you" part.  Who is this "we" you keep referring to?

Looked through the link in your profile, but did not see your name anywhere on that website, unless your profile name is not your real name.  Keep in mind that this community is VERY skeptical of newbies since they tend to turn out to be scammers more often lately.


Wanna send coins my way? 1BY2rZduB9j8Exa4158QXPFJoJ2NWU1NGf or just scan the QR code in my avatar.  :-)
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July 06, 2013, 07:33:08 PM
 #18

good morning, Expanding demand and growing widespread adoption has forced the hand of regulators. Bitcoin is defined as an open sourced project which presents a number of challenges and opportunities. We are working around the clock to address many of these issues especially relating to the blockchain integrity. If you have any questions i'd be more than happy to answer them for you.. Ira

Who are you Huh



good day, check out the projects we are working on. Happy to help anyway I can..Ira

And I'm still stuck on the "who are you" part.  Who is this "we" you keep referring to?

Looked through the link in your profile, but did not see your name anywhere on that website, unless your profile name is not your real name.  Keep in mind that this community is VERY skeptical of newbies since they tend to turn out to be scammers more often lately.

If he is who he appears to be, he's one of our heroes.
Or at least for those of us old enough to remember BITNET.
My former company, Infonet, was also a founding member of the Internet Society.
So, either he's one of the good guys, or wearing the mask of one.

FREE MONEY1 Bitcoin for Silver and Gold NewLibertyDollar.com and now BITCOIN SPECIE (silver 1 ozt) shows value by QR
Bulk premiums as low as .0012 BTC "BETTER, MORE COLLECTIBLE, AND CHEAPER THAN SILVER EAGLES" 1Free of Government
dwolfman
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July 06, 2013, 07:35:59 PM
 #19

If he is who he appears to be, he's one of our heroes.
Or at least for those of us old enough to remember BITNET.

Still, I found the exact picture used in the profile in a Google Images search.  This forum doesn't verify you are who you say you are when you sign up.

Plus it's unusual for someone to actually use their real name.

Wanna send coins my way? 1BY2rZduB9j8Exa4158QXPFJoJ2NWU1NGf or just scan the QR code in my avatar.  :-)
BitcoinBarrel
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July 06, 2013, 07:39:28 PM
 #20

The thing is, just because Bitcoin is popular is no reason to start forcing regulation on a digital commodity. Bitcoin is essentially a number on a computer screen. I can write a number on a piece of paper and sell it to you for $500. It's the same thing in my opinion.



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