US BITCOIN REGULATION "FOR" or "AGAINST"

[threeip]

On 5 January 2012, indictments were filed in Virginia in the United States against Dotcom and other company executives with crimes related to online piracy, including racketeering, conspiring to commit copyright infringement, and conspiring to commit money laundering.
Two weeks later (20 January), Kim Dotcom, Finn Batato, Mathias Ortmann and Bram van der Kolk were arrested in Coatesville, Auckland, New Zealand, by New Zealand Police, in an armed raid on Dotcom's house involving 76 officers and two helicopters.

Box gets ticked in US, raid happens in NZ. Maybe their domain was purchased from a US company or something, i don't know.

[BCB]

Just to add a point a clairty.  The US government doesn't HATE liberty reserve or Bitcoin.

What the US government is concerned about is allowing Liberty Reserve or Bitcoin to be a conduit for illicit funds used for things like Money Laundering, Terrorist Financing and Kiddie Porn.

Another case in point.  The US government will also hold YOU responsible if you allow these type of funds into the system.  

Just ask the guys who ran Liberty Reserve or E-Gold.  Kim Dotcom is a similar situation.  The US Goverment's complaint was that he was allowing his system to be used for illegal activity.

Now the fact of whether these actions were excessive or over-reach are another point to be discussed.

But the fundamental issues is that if you trade in illicit funds whether as a user or an exchanger etc, The US government considers you just as guilty as the perpetrators of those crimes that generated those illicit funds.

Financial Privacy is understandable and acceptable and should be everyone's right.  Total anonymity is the financial system and even in bitcoin is the problem.  Turning a blind eye to it still doesn't make it acceptable.

  

[DannyM]

USA is illegal.

[BCB]

USA is illegal.

What country are you from?

[TheKoziTwo]

People who believe bitcoin should be regulated should just go back to use e-gold. It's fully legit now, maybe thats why nobody uses it.

[CasinoBit]

Lol, BITCOIN?! REGULATED?! It's only worth anything because people are fed up with USD, why turn Bitcoins into USD?

[hmmmstrange]

Why not have bitcoin regulate the banks that want to do business with bitcoin?

A good project for the bitcoin foundation would be to regulate banks. Maybe start with a set of guidelines for the banks who want to engage in BTC transmitting, making sure that transfers between  BTC and fiat are sudo anonymous.

[BCB]

Why not have bitcoin regulate the banks that want to do business with bitcoin?

A good project for the bitcoin foundation would be to regulate banks. Maybe start with a set of guidelines for the banks who want to engage in BTC transmitting, making sure that transfers between  BTC and fiat are sudo anonymous.

That is a GREAT idea.  Unfortunately the Banks and the Regulators currently control the legacy fiat financial system.  The Bitcoin Foundation is currently making efforts to engage and education the legislators and regulators so that maybe in the future we can affect what you are suggesting.

Bitcoin is still a DEVELOPMENTAL protocol.   There is not reason that as the protocol evolves that it can not meet the needs of maintain our financial privacy while assistant governments in keeping illicit funds out of the system.

I am not a developer nor a technologist, and I have no idea if or how that could happen but unless we figure out how to legally interface with the fiat banking system, Bitcoin will end up like E-Gold and Liberty Reserve.

[QuestionAuthority]

Why not have bitcoin regulate the banks that want to do business with bitcoin?

A good project for the bitcoin foundation would be to regulate banks. Maybe start with a set of guidelines for the banks who want to engage in BTC transmitting, making sure that transfers between  BTC and fiat are sudo anonymous.

That is a GREAT idea.  Unfortunately the Banks and the Regulators currently control the legacy fiat financial system.  The Bitcoin Foundation is currently making efforts to engage and education the legislators and regulators so that maybe in the future we can affect what you are suggesting.

Bitcoin is still a DEVELOPMENTAL protocol.   There is not reason that as the protocol evolves that it can not meet the needs of maintain our financial privacy while assistant governments in keeping illicit funds out of the system.

I am not a developer nor a technologist, and I have no idea if or how that could happen but unless we figure out how to legally interface with the fiat banking system, Bitcoin will end up like E-Gold and Liberty Reserve.

That's a pretty bold statement. You know if you get in bed with them and pull the covers up their gonna fuck you and their gonna have babies with you and keep you in the kitchen serving up what ever they want.

[malevolent]

Just to add a point a clairty.  The US government doesn't HATE liberty reserve or Bitcoin.

What the US government is concerned about is allowing Liberty Reserve or Bitcoin to be a conduit for illicit funds used for things like Money Laundering, Terrorist Financing and Kiddie Porn.

Another case in point.  The US government will also hold YOU responsible if you allow these type of funds into the system.  

The US government doesn't like anything that is beyond its control. One does not have to use medium and use it for conducting illicit transactions.
It is enough if one uses a medium that can facilitate the conducting of illicit transactions, even if none are made.

Financial privacy is already a crime. Transactions over $10k require extra paper shuffling even if they are not used to fund drugs or kiddie porn.

unless we figure out how to legally interface with the fiat banking system, Bitcoin will end up like E-Gold and Liberty Reserve.

Fortunately Bitcoin is somewhat-decenetralized and while it may be killed by red tape in US, it should thrive in countries with less financial regulation once more people are aware of its potential.

If Bitcoin is to adjust to the current legal and financial system what value will it have for the remaining financially-aware people if it's another tool in the hands of unpredictable thugs?

[BCB]

malevolent,

Good points.  I'm in the US and while no one is happy about this new "guidance" I'm trying to figure out how to continue to operate my bitcoin business legally here.  And any bitcoin business that wants to (legally) deal with US customers will have to figure that out too.

Unfortunately, I feel pretty certain that bitcoin will begin to be more widely adopted and thrive outside of the US in a jurisdiction with less onerous regulation and more intelligence and understanding on how this technology will impact the worlds financial future.

[BitcoinBarrel]

Bitcoin is doing mighty fine, around $100 per BTC, without Regulation.

[bernard75]

In Germany its official:
After holding BTC for over 1 year makes them tax free. \o/

[Viceroy]

Bitcoin is doing mighty fine, around $100 per BTC, without Regulation.

Imagine how well it would do with regulation! Large investors might actually start to take it seriously.  Instead of thinking it to be play money.

earlier in the thread:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=245689.msg2606301#msg2606301

[TheKoziTwo]

Bitcoin is doing mighty fine, around $100 per BTC, without Regulation.

Imagine how well it would do with regulation! Large investors might actually start to take it seriously.  Instead of thinking it to be play money.

earlier in the thread:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=245689.msg2606301#msg2606301

One those not simply... "regulate" bitcoin.

But take a look at how successful regulation has been on crypto-currencies competition: namly e-gold and liberty reserve. I would rate the regularity success to be 100%, as they are both dead.

[Viceroy]

I'm in the US and while no one is happy about this new "guidance"

Don't assume, my young Padawan.  Like 33% of the poll takers I appreciate the guidance.  The more bitcoin becomes part of the system the harder it will be to remove it from the system.  Any law abiding citizen who wants bitcoin to succeed must work against illegal money laundering and other more serious crimes.

* Viceroy smokes a big fat doobie because he helped change the "drug" law where he lives

[cryptoanarchist]

I'm in the US and while no one is happy about this new "guidance"

Don't assume, my young Padawan.  Like 33% of the poll takers I appreciate the guidance.  The more bitcoin becomes part of the system the harder it will be to remove it from the system.  Any law abiding citizen who wants bitcoin to succeed must work against illegal money laundering and other more serious crimes.

* Viceroy smokes a big fat doobie because he helped change the "drug" law where he lives

Gay. I smoke big fat doobies regardless of the local "laws". Unlike Viceroy, I'm no slave begging for freedom's from my master. I do what I want.

[Viceroy]

Dear homophobe,

You must not be black or mexican and you must live in a liberal place, else you risk much to fight the drug war the way I spent the first half of my life fighting the drug war.  I prefer to live free and without risk of incarceration for something I choose to do so we simply changed the rules.  

I do what I want.

Go to Bali and smoke a joint in the town center.  I'd like to see you do that.  I know you want to.  Will you videotape it for me so I can laugh at your nonsense?  

http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/news/japanese-tourist-sentenced-to-5-months-in-bali-jail-for-marijuana-consumption/

 

[cryptoanarchist]

Dear homophobe,

You must not be black or mexican and you must live in a liberal place, else you risk much to fight the drug war the way I spent the first half of my life fighting the drug war.  I prefer to live free and without risk of incarceration for something I choose to do so we simply changed the rules.  

I do what I want.

Go to Bali and smoke a joint in the town center.  I'd like to see you do that.  I know you want to.  Will you videotape it for me so I can laugh at your nonsense?  

http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/news/japanese-tourist-sentenced-to-5-months-in-bali-jail-for-marijuana-consumption/

 

Your post reads like this:

"wahhh, I'm a slave, wahhhh. Massa's gonna git you, you keep talkin like dat!"

[Viceroy]

Your post reads like:

"I'm a 13 year old white kid who lives in California and my daddy lets me drive his BMW up and down the driveway".
   - cryptoanarchist



amirite?