Why are some international payment companies not allowing Americans to join?

[wmcorless]

I tried to sign up for several payment companies so I could fund my BTC-e account, and each one said that US Citizens accounts will be deleted.
Why are international companies doing this?
Is the US Government trying to disrupt the movement of money?

[Artofficial]

Coz we're cry babies.

[empoweoqwj]

One reason is that some states (California, New York?!?), will come after companies worldwide if they do business "illegally" with people from that State. Bizarre, but hey its US Law, so it must be ok.

[twitami1]

Why are some international payment companies not allowing Americans to join?

Because by doing so they make themselves targets of the USA.

Think Liberty Reserve or Megauploads if you have any doubt.

No US customers, no risk from the USA.


~BCX~

Of course, those two companies WERE in the US

[AliceWonder]

If they do business with us then they have to follow US laws regarding money laundering which means they need identification on all US customers and have to file the right paperwork.

More hassle than it is worth for many of them.

[wmcorless]

One reason is that some states (California, New York?!?), will come after companies worldwide if they do business "illegally" with people from that State. Bizarre, but hey its US Law, so it must be ok.

There's the question of Jurisdiction. Unless the international company has accounts in the US, they cant touch them.

[dwolfman]

Again where does this myth come from?

All it takes it is to do business with a US Citizen, no US accounts needed.

Megauploads and Liberty reserve both were not in the USA and the owners were not US Citizens. The US Dept of Justice seized and shut them down.

Is it right? No but it is the way it is.

It's not a myth.  Both your examples had items that were in the USA that could be seized.  The domain registrations happened to be under a TLD that is US controlled.  And at least in MegaUpload's case, there were quite a few servers physically located in the USA.

For a non-USA business to be able to ignore the USA, they would have to make sure they have NOTHING that the USA can touch.  That means no TLDs under USA control, no physical presence in USA, and no other presence (like bank accounts, etc) in USA.

As it is, they aren't necessarily going to be shut completely down if there isn't much for the USA to take.  Look at the Mt Gox Dwolla account seizure for example.  Since Mt Gox is based in Japan, all they could take was that and maybe the small company that was set up to run that account.

[QuestionAuthority]

Not allowing Americans to join? Not allowing Americans to join? Let's go kick their ass!

Team America World Police - Fuck Yeah!

[Patzek]

You can say whatever you want and criticize the United States, but this is the Only country in the world that have such a policy against worldwide Cyber Crime and actually DO something!
It may be uncomfortable to US citizens, but the government is sure doing what it suppose to do, and going all over the world to accomplish its goals.

Liberty Reserve, as easy as it was to use for 7 years, was a well-built laundering machine. Not everyone used it to criminal \ 'grey' activity, but sure a whole lot did.

The US have a clear policy, they will go after everyone everywhere who has a connection to US citizens \ bussineses.
This policy affects their treatments of exchangers as well as cyber criminals who operate Botnets around the world.
Botnets who has not affected US citizens, will not be touched by the FBI.

That is why exchangers now do not deal with US citizens, its not only get them off the radar, it prevents the radar of the US to even consider it. the FBI does not have infinite resources to deal with every illegal bussiness who does not affect US citizens.
That is, untill the UN will establish something similar to fight it worldwide.

[repentance]

There's the question of Jurisdiction. Unless the international company has accounts in the US, they cant touch them.

This simply isn't true.  Among other things, the US now requires foreign investments by US citizens to be reported to the IRS by the companies where they're held.  A lot of foreign financial service providers have decided that the cost of compliance isn't worth the hassle and that declining to have US customers is the best way of avoiding having to comply with what effectively amount to US laws with extra-territorial reach.

Because so many nations are FATF members and they agree to operate within the FATF framework, there are very real risks of sanctions by other members if they just ignore things related to financial crime (and tax evasion is a financial crime).  Once those sanctions are imposed, it becomes very difficult for individuals and businesses to transact with the outside world as their financial institutions get blacklisted.

[odolvlobo]

You can say whatever you want and criticize the United States, but this is the Only country in the world that have such a policy against worldwide Cyber Crime ...

Patzek, you are a little confused. Money laundering is not cyber crime. It is an attempt to prevent governments from tracking your finances. Of course, the purposes of the finances might be criminal, but money laundering itself has no victims.

[Patzek]

You can say whatever you want and criticize the United States, but this is the Only country in the world that have such a policy against worldwide Cyber Crime ...

Patzek, you are a little confused. Money laundering is not cyber crime. It is an attempt to prevent governments from tracking your finances. Of course, the purposes of the finances might be criminal, but money laundering itself has no victims.

You're right of course, but to the government eyes this is a grey area, between Cyber Crime and Crypto-currency.
What I meant, is that like in Cyber Crime, the US will go after those who affects the US.

It is very easy to seperate the two if you fully understands this world.
In their world, it is almost the same.

Cyber Criminals dealt with Libery Reserve. They used their Botnets to mine Bitcoins from zombie pc's, they laundered this money by going off-and-on from Libery to BTC, Perfectmoney Webmoney and what not.
Cyber Criminals purchased their tools using Liberty Reserve, now Bitcoin & Perfect Money.

This is all connected in the end, to our eyes its different, not to them.

The people in the FBI who handle Botnets \ organizations like Liberty reserve, probably sitting in adjoining offices, if not in the same.

[bluemeanie1]

I tried to sign up for several payment companies so I could fund my BTC-e account, and each one said that US Citizens accounts will be deleted.
Why are international companies doing this?
Is the US Government trying to disrupt the movement of money?

Generally the US has higher standards and hassles companies that dont meet their requirements.

Its more of a risk to take on American accounts in this case, but America is also a very rich nation so these orgs must weight the tradeoffs.

[Mike Hearn]

If you that's annoying for people who live in the USA, try being a US citizen who moves abroad and also has your account terminated:

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/politics/US_expats_feel_the_burden_of_FATCA.html?cid=35932576

[Timzim103]

It may have to do with things like FATCA and FBAR.

There's good reads here: http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/

[QuestionAuthority]

If you that's annoying for people who live in the USA, try being a US citizen who moves abroad and also has your account terminated:

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/politics/US_expats_feel_the_burden_of_FATCA.html?cid=35932576

The poor bastards can't even renounce their citizenship to avoid the great tax nazi. http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html

[legitnick]

I tried to sign up for several payment companies so I could fund my BTC-e account, and each one said that US Citizens accounts will be deleted.
Why are international companies doing this?
Is the US Government trying to disrupt the movement of money?

Out of all the replies I read on this thread, no one has answered correctly. The reason online payment companies like Neteller do not allow US citizens is because the law in US is greatly different then the rest of the world.

US has recently passed a bill requiring all online payment processors including paypal to verify every individual that uses the service in order to extort IRS money out of you.

[Insu Dra]

If you that's annoying for people who live in the USA, try being a US citizen who moves abroad and also has your account terminated:

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/politics/US_expats_feel_the_burden_of_FATCA.html?cid=35932576

The poor bastards can't even renounce their citizenship to avoid the great tax nazi. http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html

It's those dammed burn marks they use to tag there cattle, no way to get rid of it. Good thing they use ear rings in side European union at least those can be changed with a compatible model.

[SamS]

Not allowing Americans to join? Not allowing Americans to join? Let's go kick their ass!

Team America World Police - Fuck Yeah!

You know, I didn't know that...too funny.

[AliceWonder]

I tried to sign up for several payment companies so I could fund my BTC-e account, and each one said that US Citizens accounts will be deleted.
Why are international companies doing this?
Is the US Government trying to disrupt the movement of money?

Out of all the replies I read on this thread, no one has answered correctly. The reason online payment companies like Neteller do not allow US citizens is because the law in US is greatly different then the rest of the world.

US has recently passed a bill requiring all online payment processors including paypal to verify every individual that uses the service in order to extort IRS money out of you.

It's not about IRS - it's about money laundering, as I correctly stated.