Why are some international payment companies not allowing Americans to join?

[wmcorless]

The point I wanted to make is that if the company doesn't want to follow US guidelines, it simply can ignore their requests. Don't punish the customers because some far away government is being a cry baby.

[tvbcof]

I think it most probable that significant and blatant capital controls will be deemed necessary in the US at some point.  The likelihood is strong enough so that it would be prudent to develop and maintain a set of solutions which could facilitate such capital controls at the flip of a switch.

Coincidental to this, the established financial services institutions are skimming a high percentage of transactions and making a lot of money doing so.  I think it strongly likely that they are participating in the shaping of regulatory policies to protect their turf.  The political system of the U.S. government at this time is such that most laws and regulations are literally written by corporations through their investments in lobbyists.  It is hardly surprising that such regulations favor large and established corporate interests.

Whatever the causes, this whole set of market disruption systems is highly annoying to me as someone who has involvement as a speculator with Bitcoin but has no criminal exposure and no real problem with paying my taxes.  I am still being inconvenienced by this framework of control policies.

[Ford]

The point I wanted to make is that if the company doesn't want to follow US guidelines, it simply can ignore their requests. Don't punish the customers because some far away government is being a cry baby.

that's not true! you would think the laws could be ignored, but reality is, if you do they will come after you!

I dont disagree with the USA trying to tackle crime and criminals.
But when 99.9% of the people effected are law abiding, and just trying to run an honest business, other ways of tackling the crime needs to be found.
It is not right to punish the majority owning to actions of a minority.

I feel for US citizens, but the companies that are shutting their doors to the US are not been given many other options.
It is also a worry that if bitcoin continues to grow, the US will find itself getting left behind... and that's not a position the US is use to being in!

[Tirapon]

Not allowing Americans to join? Not allowing Americans to join? Let's go kick their ass!

Team America World Police - Fuck Yeah!

You know, I didn't know that...too funny.

LMAO this is fucking briliant!

[tvbcof]

...
I feel for US citizens, but the companies that are shutting their doors to the US are not been given many other options.
It is also a worry that if bitcoin continues to grow, the US will find itself getting left behind... and that's not a position the US is use to being in!

As someone so effected, thanks.  I would point out, however, that depending one how one looks at it, Americans are not necessarily being left behind.  Firstly, a lot of the currency base is held by Americans currently.  Secondly, it has been and remains more straightforward to buy BTC than to sell them.  I personally would have fewer BTC than I do were it more straightforward to unload them.

Relateldly, being Bitcoin-friendly might be a really effective way for a nation or region to boost tourism, particularly if the values continue to climb.  I've been meaning to take a trip to Europe one of these day, and I'll very likely be putting big red circles around places where I can leverage my BTC investment in an enjoyable manner.  Since Bitcoin is being driven underground here in the 'land of the free', it becomes a compelling value proposition for me to spend it abroad.

[justusranvier]

'land of the free'

The USA is a fascistic, totalitarian dystopia with good PR.

[Ford]

...
I feel for US citizens, but the companies that are shutting their doors to the US are not been given many other options.
It is also a worry that if bitcoin continues to grow, the US will find itself getting left behind... and that's not a position the US is use to being in!

As someone so effected, thanks.  I would point out, however, that depending one how one looks at it, Americans are not necessarily being left behind.  Firstly, a lot of the currency base is held by Americans currently.  Secondly, it has been and remains more straightforward to buy BTC than to sell them.  I personally would have fewer BTC than I do were it more straightforward to unload them.

Relateldly, being Bitcoin-friendly might be a really effective way for a nation or region to boost tourism, particularly if the values continue to climb.  I've been meaning to take a trip to Europe one of these day, and I'll very likely be putting big red circles around places where I can leverage my BTC investment in an enjoyable manner.  Since Bitcoin is being driven underground here in the 'land of the free', it becomes a compelling value proposition for me to spend it abroad.

I didnt mean "left behind" in that the US would become third world  
More in the technology space of digital currency, as at present the obsticals to setting up a business revolving around bitcoins are hard or expensive to overcome within the current (US) regulations.
Hopefully the Bitcoin Foundation will come though for the US citizens and prove that "the government" can still keep on top of crime without having to cripple new technologies.

I have not look too hard, but there is a lack of places to spend bitcoins in Europe too!
(To be honest i dont see bitcoin having the potential to replace cash anyhow, cash works fine, it is the banks that don't. I do however see that it [bitcoin] has major potential within the technology and online world, as cash has to be digitised in order to spend online, yet bitcoin does not (amongst other clear advantages)).

(im working on "a way" for bitcoiners to spend some coins, but i too have problems that if i offer some of these services to the US, i may also be in breach of some of the regulations (yet i am law abiding and would like to abide by the rules as i would be doing within the UK). i may find a compromise yet though, so i dont have to bar 300 million (mostly) good people form new technology)....

[Ford]

'land of the free'

The USA is a fascistic, totalitarian dystopia with good PR.

Just getting my dictionary out 

[tvbcof]

'land of the free'

The USA is a fascistic, totalitarian dystopia with good PR.

A rare point of agreement between you and I it seems.

I'd add that most likely, "you ain't seen nothing yet."  I find it exceedingly unlikely that we'll turn this around before we plumb some very much darker depths.  The sad thing is that in doing so, many souls around the globe will suffer even more than we will here.

[cowandtea]

Cause US government  don't want people to keep bitcoin instead of USD

[DobZombie]

Why?

cuz the US government is a dogpile piece of crap that ruins everything in its path.

[KaTXi]

It's because of the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FACTA), which you can read about here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Account_Tax_Compliance_Act

It's a problem not just for electronic payments, small european banks are kicking out US citizents because it's more EXPENSIVE to adapt systems and make all reports requests that your goverment makes than keep US clients and earn profits from their transactions.

Basically it's a way that the US goverment have to keep money on US banks, a desperate move to try to kick the "new finantial system meltdown" can to the future.

[grau]

Doing Financial Services for US citizens means having to comply with various US regulations.
Selling Goods or Software in the US means being target of patent trolls.

Who needs that crap? The world is big enough without US.

[odolvlobo]

The U.S. claims that anyone, regardless of where they are located, that does business with someone in the U.S. is subject to U.S. laws. This claim became real in 2011, when the U.S. shut down three foreign online poker sites and arrested, tried, convicted, and imprisoned their CEOs. Online poker is illegal in the U.S. and people in the U.S. were playing poker on these sites.

[01BTC10]

The U.S. claims that anyone, regardless of where they are located, that does business with someone in the U.S. is subject to U.S. laws. This claim became real in 2011, when the U.S. shut down three foreign online poker sites and arrested, tried, convicted, and imprisoned their CEOs. Online poker is illegal in the U.S. and people in the U.S. were playing poker on these sites.

Online poker is legal in most states but sending money to those website is not. They didn't arrest anyone for running an online gambling website, they did because of "money laundering".

[EhVedadoOAnonimato]

The reason why multiple financial institutions outside the US are rejecting US citizens is called FATCA - Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act.

FATCA forces "Foreign Financial Institutions" to provide burdensome reports on every "US person" (US citizen/resident or green card holder) they happen to have an account with. If they don't do so, they suffer a 30% tax (or something close to it) on any financial instrument they might hold in the US. And I think it has some sort of recursive function too: to be compliant, you must ensure that every financial institution you work with is also compliant, or you risk having your financial instruments in the US heavily taxed just because you accept to do business with someone who did not respect FATCA. I don't know for sure what "do business" mean though. What I know is that due to US's weight in the financial world, the US government is able to impose an international law.

The easiest path for such FFIs is to simply deny doing business with "US persons". This way they're compliant.

This is the most outrageous form of capital controls ever enacted. It isn't an explicit capital control, but in practice that's what it is, since from now on US persons will have great difficulty to send money abroad. And it's outrageous because it's one government forcing financial institutions of the whole world to behave as they want. In many countries, for FFIs to comply with FATCA, they'd need to violate local laws.

FATCA is already responsible for a raise in the number of US citizens dropping their US citizenship. I think many more will do so in the next couple years.

[gorgorom]

Because.

[p2pbucks]

  BO is printing bucks himself ，he only let you take dollars, he wont permit ya guys use other currencies

[fattypig]

Cause its Americans, so many restrictions.

[wmcorless]

The reason why multiple financial institutions outside the US are rejecting US citizens is called FATCA - Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act.

It is the responsibility of the US citizen to report their assets to the IRS held in foreign accounts, not the foreign company.

There must be another reason.