Why are people cheering that ASICMINER will bring 800-1000TH online this year?

[Paladin69]

I don't understand why I see so many people happy about this?  That scares the hell out of me.  Not even BFL MiniRigs or KNC will be able to compete.  You'd have to buy a crap load of Jupiters and then ASICMiner will just bring another 2-5PH online quickly early next year at this rate.

I dunno, I'm just not too happy about it.  I was hoping we'd see a couple generation of ASIC's go by before bringing the network that large.  Nobody will be able to make much of anything except for a small select few.

Maybe I am calculating something wrong and don't understand their investment strategy.  Seems very piggish.  Managing your own hardware looks like it will quickly take a back seat into letting the Chinese do it all for you.

[goxed]

I don't understand why I see so many people happy about this?  That scares the hell out of me.  Not even BFL MiniRigs or KNC will be able to compete.  You'd have to buy a crap load of Jupiters and then ASICMiner will just bring another 2-5PH online quickly early next year at this rate.

I dunno, I'm just not too happy about it.  I was hoping we'd see a couple generation of ASIC's go by before bringing the network that large.  Nobody will be able to make much of anything except for a small select few.

Maybe I am calculating something wrong and don't understand their investment strategy.  Seems very piggish.  Managing your own hardware looks like it will quickly take a back seat into letting the Chinese do it all for you.

Fucking BFL...move your ass.

+1

[afro25]

The way I understand it is that they plan on bringing 800-1000TH online in the event that their market share (of global hash rate) falls significantly.
They planned to keep at least 10-20% of the network and add/remove hash rate as the total hash rate fluctuates. I can't see that they'll just bring online 1000TH and shoot straight to 90%+ of the network, as that might kill trust in Bitcoin (and thus the whole point of Asicminer's existence). If the network shoots up to 1000TH+, then I would expect them to start seriously flipping the power switches on new machines to keep up, but I doubt they'll bring online that much unless they need to.

[Paladin69]

The way I understand it is that they plan on bringing 800-1000TH online in the event that their market share (of global hash rate) falls significantly.
They planned to keep at least 10-20% of the network and add/remove hash rate as the total hash rate fluctuates. I can't see that they'll just bring online 1000TH and shoot straight to 90%+ of the network, as that might kill trust in Bitcoin (and thus the whole point of Asicminer's existence). If the network shoots up to 1000TH+, then I would expect them to start seriously flipping the power switches on new machines to keep up, but I doubt they'll bring online that much unless they need to.

It currently feels like they are in it for themselves.  Securing the network is only useful if dispersed among a wide range of independent miners.  Not consolidated into one.  What I see right now is all I can go on...and that currently is USB sticks & blades that are WAY overpriced that are being sold to suckers so they have the funds to continue growing their operation while mining with what they make.

Just save a little for the rest of us ASICMINER.  Otherwise we can't continue to keep buying your cheap Chinese stuff...lol  The West and the East needs to work together to destroy the fiat central banking overlords.  China is showing a growth path that will do a bit too much dominating for my liking.  I agree with you.  Bitcoin will fail if they grow the network too large too quickly.

I hope KNC has an upgrade path program when their 2nd generation ASIC's come online...sorta like what BFL did for their FPGA customers.  But if all I am doing is using all my BTC to keep up with each new generation because ASICMINER is pigging it all then it doesn't make much sense to stay in the game.

[glendall]

Well, you are free to buy stocks in ASICMiner if you do think they'll continue to do as well as they have.  So it's fair enough in that sense.

[Littleshop]

Well, you are free to buy stocks in ASICMiner if you do think they'll continue to do as well as they have.  So it's fair enough in that sense.

I am more worried that they will kill the price of BTC.  When mining is distributed, more of the miners keep the BTC or maybe spend it (I am a seller so I do have bias).  I do not see ASICminer spending BTC of things in the community, it could happen but it is not what they are set up to do. 

Basically ASICminer is a drain on the community.  This does not mean they are doing anything wrong or should be stopped, it is just in most small miners interest not to support them.   You buy a USB stick from them, you allow them to put up an equal (or greater) amount of hash power to balance out their share of the network.   Certainly they can put up a lot more hash power with $100 then they are selling for $100.  Same goes with blade sales.  Also so far, most buyers from ASICminer simply paid too much for the product. 

[Paladin69]

Yeah I think I read somewhere that they are taking all of their earnings and reinvesting it into more hardware for themselves?  That is a scary.

I'd much rather support KNC which will probably only use testnet.

Supporting ASICMINER's high prices will just help them grow exponentially larger each time.

[eve]

[Paladin69]

I can't believe the amount of people on this board that want to support a hardware company that mines with what they develop.  This will be a fuckin' disaster.  China is taking advantage of stupid westerners with more money than common sense.

[jc328]

Although I am highly invested in Asicminer Shares, it is a bit disconcerting that they will control so much power under one single entity. 

[Bitcoinorama]

Well, you are free to buy stocks in ASICMiner if you do think they'll continue to do as well as they have.  So it's fair enough in that sense.

I am more worried that they will kill the price of BTC.  When mining is distributed, more of the miners keep the BTC or maybe spend it (I am a seller so I do have bias).  I do not see ASICminer spending BTC of things in the community, it could happen but it is not what they are set up to do.  

Basically ASICminer is a drain on the community.  This does not mean they are doing anything wrong or should be stopped, it is just in most small miners interest not to support them.   You buy a USB stick from them, you allow them to put up an equal (or greater) amount of hash power to balance out their share of the network.   Certainly they can put up a lot more hash power with $100 then they are selling for $100.  Same goes with blade sales.  Also so far, most buyers from ASICminer simply paid too much for the product.  

It's very likely the current sales in Bitcoins causing the price to drop/ be suppressed are ASICminer liquidating stock. They are a single entity with the power to manipulate BTC price...

[zedicus]

Well, you are free to buy stocks in ASICMiner if you do think they'll continue to do as well as they have.  So it's fair enough in that sense.

I am more worried that they will kill the price of BTC.  When mining is distributed, more of the miners keep the BTC or maybe spend it (I am a seller so I do have bias).  I do not see ASICminer spending BTC of things in the community, it could happen but it is not what they are set up to do. 

Basically ASICminer is a drain on the community.  This does not mean they are doing anything wrong or should be stopped, it is just in most small miners interest not to support them.   You buy a USB stick from them, you allow them to put up an equal (or greater) amount of hash power to balance out their share of the network.   Certainly they can put up a lot more hash power with $100 then they are selling for $100.  Same goes with blade sales.  Also so far, most buyers from ASICminer simply paid too much for the product. 

THIS!

[dan99]

Well, you are free to buy stocks in ASICMiner if you do think they'll continue to do as well as they have.  So it's fair enough in that sense.

I am more worried that they will kill the price of BTC.  When mining is distributed, more of the miners keep the BTC or maybe spend it (I am a seller so I do have bias).  I do not see ASICminer spending BTC of things in the community, it could happen but it is not what they are set up to do.  

Basically ASICminer is a drain on the community.  This does not mean they are doing anything wrong or should be stopped, it is just in most small miners interest not to support them.   You buy a USB stick from them, you allow them to put up an equal (or greater) amount of hash power to balance out their share of the network.   Certainly they can put up a lot more hash power with $100 then they are selling for $100.  Same goes with blade sales.  Also so far, most buyers from ASICminer simply paid too much for the product.  

THIS!

They made those USB Miners and made a shit load of money and now they buy more hardware to mine. Those are the stupid guys who bought from them over price short life mining hardware!! Those middlemen and group buy made money but the users will suffer big time.

[dogie]

Friedcat has destroyed the entire infrastructure, everything. There will be no more bitcoin as we know it.

Edit: I just thought of something... any of the major hacking groups which support bitcoin will now see him as the enemy. Everything he owns is now in someone's digital crosshair somewhere. Or some idiot's. Imagine the affect on the hash rate if that PB of hardware burnt down.

Greed comes before pride come before a fire.

[dan99]

Common Friedcat where is your spirit of sharing, you don't have to be so greedy ya, give others some space to breath on.

请体谅，给别人一个机会来挖掘

[Paladin69]

Although I am highly invested in Asicminer Shares, it is a bit disconcerting that they will control so much power under one single entity.  

Dude you should sell and get KNC instead.

Nobody should be supporting these assholes.  It would be a different story if they weren't mining with what they produce, but they are.

We really need a sticky or something explaining how this will kill the small miner.  It still isn't too late to apply the brakes to this if an information campaign is started.

[dogie]

Although I am highly invested in Asicminer Shares, it is a bit disconcerting that they will control so much power under one single entity. 

Dude you should sell and get KNC instead.

Nobody should be supporting these assholes.  It would be a different story if they weren't mining with what they produce, but they are.

We really need a sticky or something explaining how this will kill the small miner.  It still isn't too late to apply the brakes to this if an information campaign is started.

How, we have no influence on him now. We let him issue 400,000 shares and value his company at $140m. We gave him $57m of capital, we bought $m's of hardware from him at a 95% markup, we [BFL] let him take such a large part of the network that no one can stop him.

We could raise $1b tomorrow and we wouldn't be able to catch him for 2 years, by which point the damage is done.

We lost the game, the greedy man ruined it for us all.

[bitfair]

Time for someone to step up and defend ASICMINER here, I guess it will be me.

First of all, friedcat has been an outstandingly honest and upright member of this community for a long time, and the interests of ASICMINER are clearly aligned with most of this community. Greater network hash rate contributes to the security of Bitcoin and is good for all users - possibly with the exception of competing miners and hardware manufacturers. The transparency of their operation, such as signing each block they find, clearly demonstrates their good intentions.

Secondly, ASICMINER's pricing policy has been pertinent: ASICMINER has an obligation to maximize value for shareholders, and selling hardware below what the market is willing to pay does not achieve this. If they set a lower price point, they would only achieve being sold out quicker and the lucky few who managed to buy would simply sell their hardware on eBay at twice the price. That would hardly be a responsible way to run a company. ASICMINER has no obligation to sell hardware at charity prices so miners can net a big profit quickly - in that case they would be better off mining with their own hardware.

Thirdly, developing your own mining hardware and subsequently mining with it is not "evil". ASICMINER is a clever bunch, but they have used no unfair business tactics to achieve their current advantage and there is no reason any other sufficiently talented group of people could not compete on equal terms.

Fourthly, ASICMINER is clearly aware of the dangers of having too large share of the network hashing power and sell hardware in great enough quantities to avoid the possibility [although not at charity prices].

I have more points too, but that should be a start.

Disclaimer: I have a horse in this race, and I have a man-crush on friedcat and ASICMINER.

[k9quaint]

If ASICMiner gains too large a share, they will kill the golden goose. They have no plans to do so.
The current ASICMiner equipment is first generation bitcoin ASICs. KNCMiner will be far more efficient and much cheaper.
Follow on offerings of third and fourth generation ASICs will be even more efficient and cheaper.
ASICMiners current hardware will eventually be as outdated as GPUs are today.  

The transition to ASICs is a bumpy one, but so was the transition to GPU mining.

[Paladin69]

Wow I didn't know they raked in that much money.

Too many people involved with Bitcoin don't understand economics.

Yeah I'd say it is too late.  You can slow the growth by not giving them any more money I suppose...only buy used eruptors and blades not directly from them.