Why are people cheering that ASICMINER will bring 800-1000TH online this year?

[hardpick]

They only competition they might have is from BFL.

If BFL starts selling/delivering chips (that are technologically better than anything out there), ASICMiner will have a hard time keeping up.

I don't agree - BFL chip use too much power 60 GH single should have being 60 watts not 280 watts --BFL may deliver 800 to 1000 TH but all it means is a lot of miner will  have bad roi--- - maybe kncminer with there 100GH chip which is suposed to be low power .

[1715674709]

1715674709

[1715674709]

1715674709

[bitfair]

Not people buying shares so one guy can mine more.  Christ.  Central bank shit right there.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by that: 400k shares were issued approximately one year ago when the company first started. Approximately 160k were sold at 0.1 BTC each to raise funds for the fabrication of the first chips, and the remaining shares belong to the founders. No more shares have been issued, so there has been no dilution in the equity.

Care to explain more closely what you mean by that statement, I'm not sure I understand entirely what you are implying?

[dan99]

a bit of bashing now they worry about their investments in those virtual shares from AM. Better sell them off.

[dogie]

Yes, he issued 200k shares to the public, kept 200k shares for himself. He has since sold another 40k shares into the wild which generated him pure cash.

Yes, he and the other founders kept 200k shares as "sweat equity" and that was clearly stated in their contract. What difference does that make? And I don't believe he has sold another 40k shares, but then again, what difference does that make? There has been no dilution - the total number of shares has always been 400k.

Look at the link I gave you http://www.asicminer.co/about.html
163,962 are now owned by AM. So a further 36,038 were sold into the market to generate cash.

[bitfair]

Yes, he issued 200k shares to the public, kept 200k shares for himself. He has since sold another 40k shares into the wild which generated him pure cash.

Yes, he and the other founders kept 200k shares as "sweat equity" and that was clearly stated in their contract. What difference does that make? And I don't believe he has sold another 40k shares, but then again, what difference does that make? There has been no dilution - the total number of shares has always been 400k.

Look at the link I gave you http://www.asicminer.co/about.html
163,962 are now owned by AM. So a further 36,038 were sold into the market to generate cash.

You are reading it wrong. 163,962 ASICMINER shares were sold to the public during the IPO approximately one year ago, and 236,038 shares are held by the founders (a.k.a. Bitfountain). As far as I know, these numbers have not changed since the IPO was complete.

[Flashman]

BFL ASICs ROI gets shaky with a $60 bitcoin at 1,500,000,000 difficulty ... but I guess there's Europeans with 50c per kilowatt/hour power bills.


To any actual buyers, seriously, I mean SERIOUSLY complaining about AM's first round hardware pricing, I'd say it was probably a cheap lesson in impulse control, vs ending up on a murder charge or something. If you were oblivious at the time, some 90% of the bitcoin world were standing back, pointing, and laughing at you.

[Paladin69]

Not people buying shares so one guy can mine more.  Christ.  Central bank shit right there.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by that: 400k shares were issued approximately one year ago when the company first started. Approximately 160k were sold at 0.1 BTC each to raise funds for the fabrication of the first chips, and the remaining shares belong to the founders. No more shares have been issued, so there has been no dilution in the equity.

Care to explain more closely what you mean by that statement, I'm not sure I understand entirely what you are implying?

The scarcity of btc is being replaced by a system of shares.  The dilution will come by an ever expanding hardware investment of re-issuance.

You wouldn't trust GLD or SLV paper metals but you'll help grow this operation.  This just isn't a good idea.  I've seen this before.  It's being replicated in the digital sense.  Well, paper stocks are digital but you hopefully get my point.

[dan99]

Now AM investors are kind of nervous because they investments hardware are in great China and anything can happens. No search warrant needed and can come as they wish, hope AM has hide those mining babies pretty well

[Paladin69]

BFL ASICs ROI gets shaky with a $60 bitcoin at 1,500,000,000 difficulty ... but I guess there's Europeans with 50c per kilowatt/hour power bills.


To any actual buyers, seriously, I mean SERIOUSLY complaining about AM's first round hardware pricing, I'd say it was probably a cheap lesson in impulse control, vs ending up on a murder charge or something. If you were oblivious at the time, some 90% of the bitcoin world were standing back, pointing, and laughing at you.

It isn't the high price of their hardware I'm worried about.  It is what they are doing with their reinvestment that is really scary combined with an issuance of "shares".

[bitfair]

Not people buying shares so one guy can mine more.  Christ.  Central bank shit right there.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by that: 400k shares were issued approximately one year ago when the company first started. Approximately 160k were sold at 0.1 BTC each to raise funds for the fabrication of the first chips, and the remaining shares belong to the founders. No more shares have been issued, so there has been no dilution in the equity.

Care to explain more closely what you mean by that statement, I'm not sure I understand entirely what you are implying?

The scarcity of btc is being replaced by a system of shares.  The dilution will come by an ever expanding hardware investment of re-issuance.

You wouldn't trust GLD or SLV paper metals but you'll help grow this operation.  This just isn't a good idea.  I've seen this before.  It's being replicated in the digital sense.  Well, paper stocks are digital but you hopefully get my point.

At least one of us is confused. Both of us are probably imagining that it is the other. I am ready to admit I do not understand what you mean by that.

[k9quaint]

BFL ASICs ROI gets shaky with a $60 bitcoin at 1,500,000,000 difficulty ... but I guess there's Europeans with 50c per kilowatt/hour power bills.

I think you added a few too many zeros.
http://www.coinish.com/calc/#
BFL 50GH/s @ $2499 (straight from their product page) will never generate a return @ 80,000,000 difficulty, $94/BTC and 1.2788% growth rate.

ASICMiner is looking at this same curve. Very soon it will not make sense for ASICMiner to deploy their own hardware.

[Paladin69]

Not people buying shares so one guy can mine more.  Christ.  Central bank shit right there.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by that: 400k shares were issued approximately one year ago when the company first started. Approximately 160k were sold at 0.1 BTC each to raise funds for the fabrication of the first chips, and the remaining shares belong to the founders. No more shares have been issued, so there has been no dilution in the equity.

Care to explain more closely what you mean by that statement, I'm not sure I understand entirely what you are implying?

The scarcity of btc is being replaced by a system of shares.  The dilution will come by an ever expanding hardware investment of re-issuance.

You wouldn't trust GLD or SLV paper metals but you'll help grow this operation.  This just isn't a good idea.  I've seen this before.  It's being replicated in the digital sense.  Well, paper stocks are digital but you hopefully get my point.

At least one of us is confused. Both of us is probably imagining that it is the other. I am ready to admit I do not understand what you mean by that.

Digital Chinese Bernie Madoff.  Scarcity and your soul is being replaced for digital fiat promises.  Investors in the beginning may make some coin.  He could probably pull what you claim is shares you own.  He is selling out everyone who is too lazy to mine with their own hardware for his own benefit.  I'll laugh if he attempts a reverse stock split.

Long story short, you are helping someone to consistently, eventually, own 50% of the network at all times so long as they replace their own hardware and what they sell to others with current ASIC tech.  With that kind of ching and cheap chinese manufacturing connections, I see no reason why he can't keep up with developing ever smaller ASIC chip sizes.

Would you like it if Bernanke owned 50% of the network at all times?  I don't know how I can describe it in any other way.

Someone with that much coin in the end can create their own bubbles to their own benefit and really fuck with the btc economy.

[tinoki]

I own some shares in AM if the authorities shut down AM, does AM refund back my hard earn money? Does he guarantee money back in case of something happens? Do they have a court of law in China that is impartial?

[bitfair]

Now AM investors are kind of nervous because they investments hardware are in great China and anything can happens. No search warrant needed and can come as they wish, hope AM has hide those mining babies pretty well

Yeah, but I heard they have laser turrets surrounding the building, so no problem.

It may surprise some of you that China is a fairly civilized country and has laws too!

Reading some of the posts in this thread, I'm reminded of those guys in South Park who always say "they took our jobs!"

[superduh]

paladin.......... you seem extremely confused and i don't think you understand WHAT asicminer IS.
it's not using the products it sells on the btc chain. it sells brand new products.
it DOES hash using it's own equipment WHICH it is supposed to be doing. that is what the company is.
1) hash first 2) sell a bit on the side
you seem really really confused by this somehow.
the last thing they would probably want is to destroy the system that brings them considerable perpetual wealth.

[firefop]

BFL ASICs ROI gets shaky with a $60 bitcoin at 1,500,000,000 difficulty ... but I guess there's Europeans with 50c per kilowatt/hour power bills.


To any actual buyers, seriously, I mean SERIOUSLY complaining about AM's first round hardware pricing, I'd say it was probably a cheap lesson in impulse control, vs ending up on a murder charge or something. If you were oblivious at the time, some 90% of the bitcoin world were standing back, pointing, and laughing at you.

It isn't the high price of their hardware I'm worried about.  It is what they are doing with their reinvestment that is really scary combined with an issuance of "shares".

Paladin has it exactly correct. Just take a deep breath and think about this for a moment guys. Manufacturing, products that aren't turned on... if a China decided to kill bitcoin all that ASICMINER hardware is right there waiting to be seized and used against us.

The only ethical thing for friedcat to do is sell off all the existing asicminer hardware so it's at least distributed... and sell out each batch completely before making more of it. I imagine that shareholders would be annoyed but would gladly take their share of the profits.

[dan99]

Now AM investors are kind of nervous because they investments hardware are in great China and anything can happens. No search warrant needed and can come as they wish, hope AM has hide those mining babies pretty well

Yeah, but I heard they have laser turrets surrounding the building, so no problem.

It may surprise some of you that China is a fairly civilized country and has laws too!

Reading some of the posts in this thread, I'm reminded of those guys in South Park who always say "they took our jobs!"

In China, the authorities are all powerful and untouchable. They can't be judge but they can judge you. The more risks you are in the more un secure you becomes. They is no law the CP Government is the law. Remember the Tienanmen Square incidents in the 1980's when 1000 of students were killed, did the army and police got indicted or judge?

[freedomno1]

It is better to have a trustworthy operator than BFL it is the fault of the competition for doing so damn awful.
We wouldn't even be worrying about this if they could just perform.
That said I agree that they have the capacity but they will only use it if they need it they have a reason to ensure their network control remains less than what they can maximize.
That said the power to back up the claim is impressive in that respect.
I see no reason though to initiate a 50% attack on the network not only would the bitcoin price drop significantly, all profits from mining would as well.
That result would be illogical to profit maximization and from a libertarian perspective would be unusual.
Basically they are able to scale up as needed based on competition growth on the network.
BFL customers are going to panic as they realize that they are getting ever more squeezed which probably is part of the reason BFL is not refunding now.
That said for the libertarians
Klondike is a real project and when its finished more competition will arrive so just enjoy the ride for now

Off side
ASICminer holder but the negativity is refreshing  
Criticism is nice
But I hope your not trying to cause a share price collapse to buy more shares rofl
At least your argument was better than some I have seen but it makes less sense going for a 50% attack for the reasons above
Still surprising though the most inefficient version of ASIC's is the most profitable and as they grow they start catching up to the more advanced spec competitors naturally
If real competition shows up with superior units and cheaper prices well that would be different and this fear would be muted.

[dogie]

BFL ASICs ROI gets shaky with a $60 bitcoin at 1,500,000,000 difficulty ... but I guess there's Europeans with 50c per kilowatt/hour power bills.

I think you added a few too many zeros.
http://www.coinish.com/calc/#
BFL 50GH/s @ $2499 (straight from their product page) will never generate a return @ 80,000,000 difficulty, $94/BTC and 1.2788% growth rate.

ASICMiner is looking at this same curve. Very soon it will not make sense for ASICMiner to deploy their own hardware.

The BOM on the USBs is ~$4. Of course it will be.

[Paladin69]

BFL ASICs ROI gets shaky with a $60 bitcoin at 1,500,000,000 difficulty ... but I guess there's Europeans with 50c per kilowatt/hour power bills.


To any actual buyers, seriously, I mean SERIOUSLY complaining about AM's first round hardware pricing, I'd say it was probably a cheap lesson in impulse control, vs ending up on a murder charge or something. If you were oblivious at the time, some 90% of the bitcoin world were standing back, pointing, and laughing at you.

It isn't the high price of their hardware I'm worried about.  It is what they are doing with their reinvestment that is really scary combined with an issuance of "shares".

Paladin has it exactly correct. Just take a deep breath and think about this for a moment guys. Manufacturing, products that aren't turned on... if a China decided to kill bitcoin all that ASICMINER hardware is right there waiting to be seized and used against us.

The only ethical thing for friedcat to do is sell off all the existing asicminer hardware so it's at least distributed... and sell out each batch completely before making more of it. I imagine that shareholders would be annoyed but would gladly take their share of the profits.

I didn't want to go down the conspiracy path but yes, that's sorta why I mentioned Bernanke.  He's just some dude.  Hell, he could be working for the Chinese government for all we know.  Their state run media has been airing bitcoin news a lot lately.