Bitbill Patent Published - Encompasses Physical Bitcoins and Paper Wallets

[cdog]

Mike Caldwell’s Casascius Coin (here is a great vid of Mike “pressing” coins).  

Id be interested in watching this, but the link doesnt show up for me.

Im very interested in seeing BTC bills, and although I understand why llama is trying to corner the market, I dont like this approach at all.

Just let free competition happen, and may the best physical bitcoins win.

I think physical, multi-denomination BTC is a huge, necessary step forward towards mass adoption.

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[Birdy]

This is disgusting. What's this lame llama thinking?

I'll never buy a single bitbill. I hope more people boycott them as well.

This, patent trolling is on the same level as scammers imo.

[CIYAM]

The day I decided that American patents (in IT at least) were ridiculous was when RLE was patented (back in the 80's).

Any student who sees a bunch of bytes like this: 0x40 0x40 0x40 0x80 0x80
will come up with the idea of: 0x03 0x40 0x02 0x80

anyone who thinks that such trivial stuff should even be "patentable" should probably consider patenting the English language itself (who knows maybe that will be next in the land where your own genes belong to some corporation).

[apetersson]

The day I decided that American patents (in IT at least) were ridiculous was when RLE was patented (back in the 80's).

in europe most software-only ideas are not patentable. the trouble unfortunately begins when you interact with the physical world, like with qr codes it suddenly becomes patentable.
I think the whole patent system is broken and just shovels money to lawyers and hinders innovation.

it would be great if we had some consensus on that in the bitcoin world. since the field is relatively new i forsee new a lot of patents on relatively obvious stuff (like this) being patented. maybe we should gather together and build a non-agression alliance with enough power to eliminate this threat.

[mindtomatter]

Mike Caldwell’s Casascius Coin (here is a great vid of Mike “pressing” coins).  

Id be interested in watching this, but the link doesnt show up for me.

Im very interested in seeing BTC bills, and although I understand why llama is trying to corner the market, I dont like this approach at all.

Just let free competition happen, and may the best physical bitcoins win.

I think physical, multi-denomination BTC is a huge, necessary step forward towards mass adoption.

You can read the full story (with updates) here which includes live links http://letstalkbitcoin.com/post/54309560858/bitbills-to-relaunch-cold-storage-patent-application

You can find the direct link to the video here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NyzDY7NUOo

[BitTrade]

Also keep in mind guys, contrary to what most believe, you can't patent an "idea" (such as the "idea" of physical / cold storage bitcoins).  You can only patent a VERY specific system or design.  So even if this patent application is accepted, it would be so limited in scope so as to make it next to meaningless.  If it's too broad, it will not be enforceable.  This is a clear case of patent bullying. 

[mindtomatter]

The patent is very inclusive of techniques, means, methods, mediums.   It may be unenforceable, but it can be used as a cudgel against smaller players who might like to enter the market but don't want to risk an infringement lawsuit.

[CIYAM]

Also keep in mind guys, contrary to what most believe, you can't patent an "idea" (such as the "idea" of physical / cold storage bitcoins).

Your premise is very true although in recent years patents in the USA have been mostly granted regardless of how broad they are (perhaps as a money-making exercise in itself by the authorities that grant them) so that patents for ideas *are* being granted and then later have to be battled (at a huge cost to a small business).

The patent system really has no purpose in the modern world (it's original purpose was to encourage publication - we have the internet for that now) - the sooner it is scrapped the better (ditto for copyright - my other major bugbear).

[canton]

If it's too broad, it will not be enforceable.  This is a clear case of patent bullying. 

Here's my concern: If BitBill is lucky enough to get their patent approved, it won't matter whether or not they can enforce their patent by winning in court. All they have to do is send letters demanding licensing fees from companies and individuals knowing full well that their targets won't be able to afford fighting the validity of the request in court.

Here's a great (entertaining and informative) radio show on the topic of "patent trolls" and how they use overly broad patents to extort fees from startups: http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/496/when-patents-attack-part-two



I'll of course be following this closely because my hobby project (https://bitcoinpaperwallet.com) would be directly impacted by the approval of this patent, even though I'm not selling "currency" of any sort.

[cbeast]

What kind of legal exposure would a patent holder have for Bitbills that are used for illegal activities?

[CIYAM]

What kind of legal exposure would a patent holder have for Bitbills that are used for illegal activities?

Haha - great idea - forward on the patent application to the NSA (although probably not necessary as they would already know about it) and to FinCEN and let them reap the benefits!

[RoadToHell]

I quickly read through the Claims section (which is the meat of any patent), but won't have time to look at the rest of the application until this evening.  Claims 24, 30 and 31 look like they might contain new material.  I think that all of the others can be countered with prior art.  It will be interesting to see if the application detail backs up those claims with any substance.

The application can be found here:
http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=20130166455.PGNR.&OS=DN/20130166455&RS=DN/20130166455

[RoadToHell]

It's a good thing that toilets were invented before the patent offices got all wacky.  Otherwise we'd all be up sh*t creek.

[smoothie]

I'm trying to wrap my head around how you could patent embedding private keys into coins.

[cbeast]

What kind of legal exposure would a patent holder have for Bitbills that are used for illegal activities?

Haha - great idea - forward on the patent application to the NSA (although probably not necessary as they would already know about it) and to FinCEN and let them reap the benefits!

This will take the cross-hairs off of Satoshi since this is someone claiming to own a major part of the idea of Bitcoin.

[casascius]

I quickly read through the Claims section (which is the meat of any patent), but won't have time to look at the rest of the application until this evening.  Claims 24, 30 and 31 look like they might contain new material.  I think that all of the others can be countered with prior art.  It will be interesting to see if the application detail backs up those claims with any substance.

I would think these three claims are nothing more than the same thing described in this post dated Aug 30, 2010 and its followups.

[cypherdoc]

I'm trying to wrap my head around how you could patent embedding private keys into coins.

don't worry about this claim.  it won't go anywhere.

BitBills is a spoiled brat who missed out on the run up precisely b/c they didn't see it coming and now wants to capitalize on everyone else's success.  won't happen.

[Snail2]

A Google find:
http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/mpep/s1134.html

As I see any third party can enter a protest at the patent office. (I have no idea about the US patent law, so tell me if I'm telling stupid things.)
Maybe TBF should intervene in this case.

[mindtomatter]

A Google find:
http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/mpep/s1134.html

As I see any third party can enter a protest at the patent office. (I have no idea about the US patent law, so tell me if I'm telling stupid things.)
Maybe TBF should intervene in this case.

Gavin commented on the foundation private forum and said he did not think it was the responsibility of the foundation to get involved.   I don't neccesarily agree with that, I think if they're going to be activist in the community (lobbying) it makes sense for them to file protective patents on publicly derived concepts, which cold storage clearly is.   This would prevent wasted expenditure on unsuccessful attempts to patent obvious parts of the Bitcoin structure.

[Snail2]

Agree. Offline wallets could be a great tool for promoting the usefulness of BTC and could help achieve a wider acceptance (as it looks similar to a well known bank note) so I think it's important to keep trolls away.