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Author Topic: BitClip: Now with concept drawings!  (Read 13658 times)
natman3400
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July 01, 2011, 09:39:48 PM
 #41

I would like to point out that in case of hardware failure wallet.dat ideally needs to be stored on some kind removable storage media OR at least caring a copy of wallet from computer. This way bitcoins could be easily recovered if anything happens to the device.
I agree, I'm working on a way for this to be done securely, I think I might go about the way I had previously mentioned and include a usb key inside the case of the device that is encrypted with the code shipped with the device that would allow you to back up wallets to it if you had the code to the device. Another way to do it would be only to back up the main wallet, or to do a Little tiny raid with microSD cards. This will be further addressed in phase 2.

What was the problem of simply backing up an encrypted password-protected version of the wallet file on a home computer?

BTW, slap an Apple logo on the case, and it'll sell like hotcakes. Just have to sell it outside US/EU Cheesy

No problem if such device can connect and talk with computer
This is the actual problem here. If you give it the ability to connect to the computer, you lose security.
Just a small software raid across microSD cards should work. Maybe I could find a way to make a specialized backup chip that only has power applied while in use, and do a software raid 1 (or which ever is the mirroring one) across those.
Another thing would be to give it the ability to back up and encrypt an image of its own drive to a microSD card. I would still have to set it up to require the random key embedded into the hardware of each device.

Support the BitClip project:
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July 01, 2011, 09:42:36 PM
 #42

Not ready to donate, but I would make a down payment on a pre-order if the project reaches that phase. I suggest starting with the simplest possible model.

1DjHfDt96QquRz7YYXgXtD81ocF6xopoPN
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July 01, 2011, 09:44:21 PM
 #43

I see no justification for all these models. There are no marketing statistics nor any marks of viability. I wouldn't invest a penny into this.
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July 01, 2011, 09:56:23 PM
 #44

Not ready to donate, but I would make a down payment on a pre-order if the project reaches that phase. I suggest starting with the simplest possible model.
If you noticed the part in phase 3 about how the core parts of it would be hardware agnostic.
The way I would go about it would be to select a chip series, and then to develop the software on a devel board from that series, and then create the hardware and tune it to the hardware. This is what we're probably going to do. There is, in fact, a cheap (in comparison to multi-thousand dollar eval boards) devel board for the chip series I have chosen.

I see no justification for all these models. There are no marketing statistics nor any marks of viability. I wouldn't invest a penny into this.

The models are just my guess on the range of products I would offer. Im really doing this as a hobby, not as a business venture. Each one would probably be built after the order (of course keeping a decent amount of the core parts around and offering a discount when I would have to delay).
If you don't want to invest, fine, don't. If you want to go in and look at market statistics for me, I welcome you to the project, but for now, Its just a hobby of mine. All the different models are just concepts. I'm probably just going to end having the casio style MyBit, and the standard BitClip, with customization options to bridge the gap between them. Some people prefer the no-frill interface of a fancy calculator, I for one prefer a simple touch interface on such devices. At the very least, I want a keypad and joystick-y-thingy. The point of multiple models is to give the people that don't want to put much into it a low end option, and the people that are willing to pay a premium a nicer, easier to use interface. Hell, I might even pop them all into the same case and just give a choice of interface options shoved into that case.

Support the BitClip project:
http://bit.ly/vghQFK
Donate to bitclip: 1BCincd4sHM1ou5QcxZ4vc4hKzsxXCpQT
Dontate to me: 1NathanAubdutd4kW4VwfcEXEWvgkqEq7V
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natman3400
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July 01, 2011, 10:48:12 PM
 #45

I just want to clarify that I am not offering investment opportunities in this, if you donate enough, I will be glad to provide you with one of the test models or late prototypes. And a fancy case on any you actually buy.

Support the BitClip project:
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July 01, 2011, 10:55:02 PM
 #46

If you find yourself in need of plastic prototypes, I may be able to help. I have a Makerbot, an extruder-type 3d printer.

You have a 3d printer! awesome always wanted one.
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July 01, 2011, 11:59:57 PM
 #47

If you find yourself in need of plastic prototypes, I may be able to help. I have a Makerbot, an extruder-type 3d printer.
How expensive would it be to print the parts for a rep rap?
And these are the people I need (just pm me if you want to help out):
1 bitcoin client modification programmer []
1 Security tester guy []
1 aesthetics design guy []

Support the BitClip project:
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Donate to bitclip: 1BCincd4sHM1ou5QcxZ4vc4hKzsxXCpQT
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July 02, 2011, 12:49:58 AM
 #48

The beauty of the Free (bitcoin) Market...it's great to see these new ideas being discussed!
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July 02, 2011, 01:59:23 AM
 #49

3d printers are indeed cool. I have the makerbot, however a fair warning: you NEED the heated build platform or else its basically worthless. You can't print larger than like 20mm even though they originally told you, "you can print 100mm"

natman3400
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July 02, 2011, 05:06:23 PM
 #50

3d printers are indeed cool. I have the makerbot, however a fair warning: you NEED the heated build platform or else its basically worthless. You can't print larger than like 20mm even though they originally told you, "you can print 100mm"



Well that ruins my ability to rapidly prototype cases.

Support the BitClip project:
http://bit.ly/vghQFK
Donate to bitclip: 1BCincd4sHM1ou5QcxZ4vc4hKzsxXCpQT
Dontate to me: 1NathanAubdutd4kW4VwfcEXEWvgkqEq7V
PGP key 1: http://goo.gl/TUIWe
PGP key 2: http://goo.gl/jrfaI
Proof both keys belong to me: http://goo.gl/dQSHl
natman3400
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July 02, 2011, 06:20:05 PM
 #51

Updated the op and changed the title to something that sounds better.

Support the BitClip project:
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Donate to bitclip: 1BCincd4sHM1ou5QcxZ4vc4hKzsxXCpQT
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done
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July 02, 2011, 06:44:21 PM
 #52

Get to work  Smiley
natman3400
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July 02, 2011, 07:27:41 PM
 #53

Get to work  Smiley

After I get my pay on Monday Ill open up a website for the project, but Im not going to go much farther with out other people to check me and make sure I don't make any huge mistakes. I plan to make the software on the devices open source, but with a secret salt or other thrown in on the ones I sell to enhance security.

Support the BitClip project:
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Donate to bitclip: 1BCincd4sHM1ou5QcxZ4vc4hKzsxXCpQT
Dontate to me: 1NathanAubdutd4kW4VwfcEXEWvgkqEq7V
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natman3400
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July 02, 2011, 09:42:40 PM
 #54

Updated the op with a project funding thing-y and more donation information.

Support the BitClip project:
http://bit.ly/vghQFK
Donate to bitclip: 1BCincd4sHM1ou5QcxZ4vc4hKzsxXCpQT
Dontate to me: 1NathanAubdutd4kW4VwfcEXEWvgkqEq7V
PGP key 1: http://goo.gl/TUIWe
PGP key 2: http://goo.gl/jrfaI
Proof both keys belong to me: http://goo.gl/dQSHl
natman3400
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July 03, 2011, 09:30:27 PM
 #55

Updated the op with the new donation address

Support the BitClip project:
http://bit.ly/vghQFK
Donate to bitclip: 1BCincd4sHM1ou5QcxZ4vc4hKzsxXCpQT
Dontate to me: 1NathanAubdutd4kW4VwfcEXEWvgkqEq7V
PGP key 1: http://goo.gl/TUIWe
PGP key 2: http://goo.gl/jrfaI
Proof both keys belong to me: http://goo.gl/dQSHl
natman3400
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July 06, 2011, 02:15:09 PM
 #56

I just decided to put what I think this project should do into a little statement:
Quote
The purpose of bitclip is to provide secure and easy ways for end users to use bitcoin in conditions such as POS, without excessive risk, involvement, or technical knowledge. BitClip intents to do that by providing cheap devices that would be able to connect to wifi or  other networks, while still being able to provide security and simplicity.

Also iv'e got some sketches for what the devices/device clients look like in my mind coming up soon. I'm not the best at drawing, but they will convey the idea. Still looking for other people to help me do this.

Support the BitClip project:
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Donate to bitclip: 1BCincd4sHM1ou5QcxZ4vc4hKzsxXCpQT
Dontate to me: 1NathanAubdutd4kW4VwfcEXEWvgkqEq7V
PGP key 1: http://goo.gl/TUIWe
PGP key 2: http://goo.gl/jrfaI
Proof both keys belong to me: http://goo.gl/dQSHl
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July 06, 2011, 02:30:29 PM
 #57

1 ascetics design guy []

This word.  It does not mean what you think it means.  At least I hope it doesn't.

Also, check out RockBox.

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natman3400
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July 06, 2011, 02:53:52 PM
 #58

1 ascetics design guy []

This word.  It does not mean what you think it means.  At least I hope it doesn't.

Also, check out RockBox.
I've always been bad at spelling, spell check musta got me, i meant aesthetics.
And how would an open source jukebox firmware help me?
Edit: Fixed

Support the BitClip project:
http://bit.ly/vghQFK
Donate to bitclip: 1BCincd4sHM1ou5QcxZ4vc4hKzsxXCpQT
Dontate to me: 1NathanAubdutd4kW4VwfcEXEWvgkqEq7V
PGP key 1: http://goo.gl/TUIWe
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Proof both keys belong to me: http://goo.gl/dQSHl
ben-abuya
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July 06, 2011, 03:06:39 PM
 #59

Kudos on the initiative. I think this is probably the most important bitcoin concept as far as gaining mainstream users. Imagine selling these at walmarts and supermarkets and Best Buys. It's impossible to secure the average joe's computer, so the bitcoin client running on a desktop or laptop will never be safe without something like this, but pick one of these up and you have a stupid-proof secure bitcoin device.

And how would an open source jukebox firmware help me?

The RockBox stuff would let you use one of the inexpensive $25 mp3 players as a platform. They already have displays and input interfaces. For the production version maybe you could get a chinese plant to rebrand an mp3 player.

If you want to build from the ground up, might be worth looking into a crypto chip like this:

http://www.maxim-ic.com/datasheet/index.mvp/id/7277

It has built-in hardware ECDSA, which is what bitcoin uses to sign transactions, it has a true random number generator, and it's designed to be secure. If you can do this with a crypto chip, a cheap microprocessor and interface with a mobile phone or computer via bluetooth for an easier GUI, you might be able to get this really cheap and super secure.

http://lamassubtc.com/
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natman3400
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July 06, 2011, 03:16:01 PM
 #60

Kudos on the initiative. I think this is probably the most important bitcoin concept as far as gaining mainstream users. Imagine selling these at walmarts and supermarkets and Best Buys. It's impossible to secure the average joe's computer, so the bitcoin client running on a desktop or laptop will never be safe without something like this, but pick one of these up and you have a stupid-proof secure bitcoin device.

And how would an open source jukebox firmware help me?

The RockBox stuff would let you use one of the inexpensive $25 mp3 players as a platform. They already have displays and input interfaces. For the production version maybe you could get a chinese plant to rebrand an mp3 player.

If you want to build from the ground up, might be worth looking into a crypto chip like this:

http://www.maxim-ic.com/datasheet/index.mvp/id/7277

It has built-in hardware ECDSA, which is what bitcoin uses to sign transactions, it has a true random number generator, and it's designed to be secure. If you can do this with a crypto chip, a cheap microprocessor and interface with a mobile phone or computer via bluetooth for an easier GUI, you might be able to get this really cheap and super secure.
I'm kinda looking into building from the ground up, the end device will cost a bit more, but that way nobody will be able to drop in and steal your bitcoins jut by plugging something into your device. The arm processor I have selected has a cryptography module in it, so I don't think a chip will be needed.
I was thinking about mainstream users when I though of this. If we can make a $25-$50 device (with a $50-$75 one with an easier interface, for the extremely not technically inclined (a.k.a. they think a *nix is a type of windows)), and make it locked down before it ever gets to them, there is no way they are going to mess it up.

Support the BitClip project:
http://bit.ly/vghQFK
Donate to bitclip: 1BCincd4sHM1ou5QcxZ4vc4hKzsxXCpQT
Dontate to me: 1NathanAubdutd4kW4VwfcEXEWvgkqEq7V
PGP key 1: http://goo.gl/TUIWe
PGP key 2: http://goo.gl/jrfaI
Proof both keys belong to me: http://goo.gl/dQSHl
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