ASICS killing BTC ?

[PrintMule]

While bitcoin was cpu, or at least gpu bound it was in it's most decentralized form.

[bitterdog]

If people were so worried about the value of all over btc to fiat the the guys like friedcat should take fiat as payment. At some point they have to dump large amounts of btc to pay foundrys. Shippers. Workers etc. Those people I'm sure aren't going to accept btc. So why not just protect btc and sell your devices for a fair fiat price

[drrussellshane]

While bitcoin was cpu, or at least gpu bound it was in it's most decentralized form.

There was still the threat of botnets.

[Littleshop]

Hey, I've been wondering, Litecoins are not immune to ASIC mining, they just need ASICs with a whole lot of memory to do it, meaning they would be way more complex and expensive. Once Litecoin goes up in value to the point where it would be worth it to invest in Litecoin ASICs, won't Litecoin become even more centralized, just because Litecoin ASICs will be very expensive to own and owned by a select few wealthy types, compared to Bitcoin, for which ASICs are dirt cheap (after initial design expense)? Right now it seems like Litecoins are more decentralized, but I fear eventually Bitcoin miners to Litecoin miners will be like Honda owners to Ferrari owners.

I do not agree.  Litecoins are in technicality ASIC mineable but in reality there is no point.   To build an ASIC that would mine scrypt well would be to get near or even exceed the cost of using a GPU to do the same thing.  So you could build a scrypt ASIC but it would not make sense.  In the end you would have an item that could not do anything else and it would have low resale value. 

That isn't true.  It isn't true even with full strength scrypt but the point is moot as the scrypt used in Litecoin was intentionally weakened significantly (2^10, 1, 1).  It is more than 100x less memory hard than the default for low security applications (2^14, 8, 1) and closer to 8000x less memory hard then what is recommended for high security applications (2^20, 8, 1).

This is a single parameter that can be changed with blockchain consensus and a new software release.  Considering most the users of scrypt coins are anti ASIC that would not be a tough sell to change it. 

[QuantPlus]

Greed and ASICs are killing Bitcoin.

Greed will kill ASICS by end of 2013... Bitcoin hijackers will be eating their chips.

http://bitcoinnews.io/dan-kaminsky-predicts-the-end-of-the-current-proof-of-work-function/

[Rassah]

While bitcoin was cpu, or at least gpu bound it was in it's most decentralized form.

There was still the threat of botnets.

And universities using their idle supercomputer resources. Oh, and the that of someone who wanted to destroy Bitcoin making ASICs in private, instead of selling them to dedicated bitcoiners.

Greed will kill ASICS by end of 2013... Bitcoin hijackers will be eating their chips.

http://bitcoinnews.io/dan-kaminsky-predicts-the-end-of-the-current-proof-of-work-function/

I think Mr Kaminsky really screwed up in this prediction. Miners have way too much invested to switch from the current function, it will be nearly impossible to build up an alternative mining infrastructure that can be as secure as the current one quickly enough to just switch to it, and besides, Gavin has absolutely no interest in switching the algorithm, either. He specifically said so when asked about that article.

[polarhei]

I think the unguided may kill the BTC like the Liberty Reserve before.

It does not care about the packaging you used as ASIC is a method to pack your needed as there is no way to block something completely like combat. I have read news. For example,The PRISM may be abused by some people even the starting point is reasonable.


Remember, ASIC is not so powerful than expected. ASIC only concertrate on one purpose which are stable and reuseable. I currently am reading about the design, In 2-step SHA256 case, the sellers put the simple circult as L-U decoder based on software written. packaged in smaller size (28nm or even smaller), connect so many to speed up as the design is heavily connected with software and hardware like professional soundcards.

I have studied DSP before. I may have some clues about the usages that I have to find another way when the competitions...!

ASICS not killing BTC, the banker, or government can kill BTC.

[polarhei]

Hey, I've been wondering, Litecoins are not immune to ASIC mining, they just need ASICs with a whole lot of memory to do it, meaning they would be way more complex and expensive. Once Litecoin goes up in value to the point where it would be worth it to invest in Litecoin ASICs, won't Litecoin become even more centralized, just because Litecoin ASICs will be very expensive to own and owned by a select few wealthy types, compared to Bitcoin, for which ASICs are dirt cheap (after initial design expense)? Right now it seems like Litecoins are more decentralized, but I fear eventually Bitcoin miners to Litecoin miners will be like Honda owners to Ferrari owners.

YOU SAY ASIC is just a form of packaging, very good. I think the problem is not on packaging method used. It must be on some people...

[Rassah]

I think the unguided may kill the BTC like the Liberty Reserve before.
...

You need to find better translation software. What's your native language?

[PrintMule]

While bitcoin was cpu, or at least gpu bound it was in it's most decentralized form.

There was still the threat of botnets.

Good point.
I wonder how hard is it to spot that your GPU is part of the botnet
Also how big are these botnets these days?

[Rampion]

I don't see ASICs killing BTC.  There's a growth problem right now.  ASICs start expensive and get cheaper.  As a result, you see an early concentration.  This is why I'm very happy with ASICMINER's cheaper price point for the USB Erupters.

They are not a great investment.  There's still a reasonable chance that even at 1 BTC they will not make a full return on the investment.  But there is a chance.  Meanwhile, they're an extremely low barrier to entry mining device.  330 MH/s isn't a lot in the scheme of things...until you have tens of thousands of them distributed all over like we do today.  BTC Guild alone has sold over 2,000 in 5 days.

Once you have one, you never have a reason to turn it off.  It's extremely unlikely that they will hit a point where they cost more to run than they generate at 2.5w each.  They're a small step towards decentralization, and you can expect as ASICs mature there will continue to be more low level offerings.  They won't have the RoI of the bigger units, but they will help keep the hash rate from being fully concentrated in massive mining farms.

This. Those USB thingies are the real deal in terms of BTC decentralization. Plus, they are absolutely the best way to "spread the Bitcoin word".

[bitcoinator]

Once you have one, you never have a reason to turn it off.  It's extremely unlikely that they will hit a point where they cost more to run than they generate at 2.5w each.

Is it really true, did anybody make the calculations considering exponential growth of difficulty?

I wouldn't like to have one of my laptop's usb ports busy if it doesn't generate any significant amount of bitcoins (and consumes energy that costs something too).

[LiteCoinGuy]

LTC is looking very strong right now.  Holding its USD value as BTC falls.

+1

[ixne]

LTC is looking very strong right now.  Holding its USD value as BTC falls.

Bitcoin is falling because companies are cashing out large amounts of invested BTC to USD produce tangible products, i.e. ASIC.  LTC is holding value the same way my monopoly money is holding value, no one cares what it is worth unless you are in the game.

[btcrich]

LTC is looking very strong right now.  Holding its USD value as BTC falls.

Bitcoin is falling because companies are cashing out large amounts of invested BTC to USD produce tangible products, i.e. ASIC.  LTC is holding value the same way my monopoly money is holding value, no one cares what it is worth unless you are in the game.

Can you state your source?  Which companies are cashing out?

Also, I imagine that those that aren't involved in some way with Bitcoin don't really care what it's worth either.

[Vod]

How do people like this think their smart? Like is their an over 18 rule on this forum?

I like how you misspelled "they're/there" twice while complaining about someone else's intelligence.   

[shields]

Bitcoin is falling because companies are cashing out large amounts of invested BTC to USD produce tangible products, i.e. ASIC.  LTC is holding value the same way my monopoly money is holding value, no one cares what it is worth unless you are in the game.

As ASICs are produced, whether they are shipped to purchasers or used by the companies that took pre-payment, or made/used by any other third party the overall hashrate of BTC climbs. This means the difficulty climbs, and the profitability per GH drops over time.

For any ASIC x that can mine y GH/s there is some point z in the future where it would no longer be profitable to buy it at price p . If I order an ASIC for price p now, I don't know when I get it will be before or after z. This is a problem and why I have not ordered one and instead got a GPU and mine LTC instead.

People already involved in BTC for years need to understand the attitude of new users, they have no huge loyalty to BTC over LTC or any other crypto. They are not in any GAME yet so they don't care about any coin, they learn about them, then decide which to get involved in. It's dangerous to think a newbie will take a risk on an ASIC pre-order over hardware that they can buy today, or already have to mine a scrypt coin immediately purely because of the momentum BTC already has.

Such situation over time may cause BTC community to shrink and the LTC or some other alt coin community to grow, and perhaps some day overtake it. I think it's arrogant and BTC-biased to think this is not possible.

[hate_the_face]

man oh man, who saw this coming?

oh yeah, anyone with a fucking clue

when everyone is out to make a quick buck the money slows down eventually

[IIOII]

OP makes valid points.

However I think (well at least hope) that more ASIC manufacturers will emerge and competition will increase.

[Ekonom]

The whole Asic & ltc thing is nothing more than that http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=768h3Tz4Qik