CyNotes
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The All-in-One Cryptocurrency Exchange
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December 04, 2017, 11:58:16 PM |
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I totally agree. Energy consumption are one of the problem nowadays. We all know that China have banned local exchanges though they have the cheapest electricity bills. I think that is the reason why some miners agreed about forks. Or else no one will mine at all questioning the sustainability of bitcoins.
How Bout countries which has no solutions for such concerns. Like you all call third world countries. Will they just stop ?
There is a high cost especially here in the Philippines, we pay electric bill with additional charges that we don't even know where it comes from. I think China banned bitcoin in their country. Their local currency will gets low value over the bitcoin and they don't wanted to get their money lose and everybody want to use bitcoin in buying, selling and trading. |
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squatz1
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Flying Hellfish is a Commie
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December 05, 2017, 02:00:07 AM |
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Well it's not like power is really going to be a problem with Bitcoin, as we know more and more people are going to innovate when it comes to the ASICS which are used to mine Bitcoin. So power efficeny is going to be something that is hopefully (and probably) fixed by this time in the future. Renewable energy will be on the rise, and it will probably be cheaper to use -- as traditional power sources fade away (given if these companies let this happen)
Bitcoin can be sustained, it just must innovate to keep going and who knows if it's going to be able to do that. People don't want to pay high fees nor deal with 51 percent attacks. And I don't think normal users want their coin to be a traders coin, as that it pretty much what it is now.
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BurtW
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December 05, 2017, 03:55:23 AM |
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Well it's not like power is really going to be a problem with Bitcoin, as we know more and more people are going to innovate when it comes to the ASICS which are used to mine Bitcoin. So power efficeny is going to be something that is hopefully (and probably) fixed by this time in the future. Renewable energy will be on the rise, and it will probably be cheaper to use -- as traditional power sources fade away (given if these companies let this happen)
Bitcoin can be sustained, it just must innovate to keep going and who knows if it's going to be able to do that. People don't want to pay high fees nor deal with 51 percent attacks. And I don't think normal users want their coin to be a traders coin, as that it pretty much what it is now.
Read this sentence very carefully: By design mining efficiency has no effect on the overall power consumption. None.I am so tired of the "in the future miners will be more efficient" lie. Over and over. By design miners will consume all the energy they can afford. Power efficiency only affects difficulty not power consumption. See: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2465881.0Another non-argument is that miners can use renewable energy sources. Sure, they will use them if they are cheaper but they will still use a huge amount of power - renewable or not. |
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Keptone
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December 05, 2017, 03:59:35 AM |
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Something to think of though... Waiting for more contributions to learn from
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putlink
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December 05, 2017, 04:03:54 AM |
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From another perspective, when the cost of mining is higher than the income from mining at a certain point of time, will some people continue mining?
What happens when nobody digs?
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Tux99
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December 05, 2017, 04:06:02 AM |
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It's a good question for the pools to answer. Eventually the last bitcoin will be mined and then the fees for bitcoin will be more than the transactions themselves. The electricity/maintenance costs will also be through the roof. I'm thinking that Satoshi didn't take into account pools in the original writing and that the more distributed network this could have worked out. With pools it's kinda hard to figure how this would play out to keep the network sustainable after the block reward goes away.
If the last bitcoin will be mined and transaction fee will be more than the total transaction, what could be happen to bitcoin itself? Maybe people will start stop using bitcoin. How can bitcoin become a currency if the transaction fee very high? I am doubt with it. |
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audaciousbeing
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December 05, 2017, 06:17:28 AM |
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The sustainability of bitcoin to me is nonnegotiable. According to what I have read its going to take nothing less than 100 years from now or the last bitcoin to be mined which then suggests that until after that, we can then begin to have the discussion surrounding sustainability which several of us might not even be alive to see that happening.
On the issue of power which is something of concern, 100 years is enough to have land breaking technological advancement that could either make power much more cheaper or new ways to mine bitcoin with less power. Put all this together, point to the fact that the future is very much secure.
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BurtW
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December 05, 2017, 01:32:34 PM |
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The sustainability of bitcoin to me is nonnegotiable. According to what I have read its going to take nothing less than 100 years from now or the last bitcoin to be mined which then suggests that until after that, we can then begin to have the discussion surrounding sustainability which several of us might not even be alive to see that happening.
On the issue of power which is something of concern, 100 years is enough to have land breaking technological advancement that could either make power much more cheaper or new ways to mine bitcoin with less power. Put all this together, point to the fact that the future is very much secure.
The block subsidy ends in about 2140. So about 123 years. However in the last four years the block subsidy will only be 0.00000001 BTC per block, the four years before that 0.00000002 BTC per block, etc. So the block subsidy will become insignificant a long time before 2140. In fact if you look at this chart: https://www.smartbit.com.au/charts/transaction-fees-per-block?from=2017-11-5&to=2017-12-5You can see that we are paying about 1.25 BTC in fees per block right now. If this stays the same (which it probably will not) then in less than 20 years the miners will be making more from fees than they will be from the block subsidy. Again you restate "new ways to mine bitcoin with less power". You cannot be more wrong here. Go back and read this again: Read this sentence very carefully: By design mining efficiency has no effect on the overall power consumption. None.I am so tired of the "in the future miners will be more efficient" lie. Over and over. By design miners will consume all the energy they can afford. Power efficiency only affects difficulty not power consumption. See: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2465881.0 |
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Lancelot04
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December 05, 2017, 01:35:04 PM |
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With the power requirements to run the BTC network continually increasing... what is the long term solution? It doesn't seem viable that it can go on forever like this. Anyone have good insight? It's easy to just assume... "well there will be cheaper energy in the future" or "BTC will just switch to POS".... I guess I'm looking for answers with a little more substance and detail. Thanks!
Maybe it the remaining Bitcoins will be mined the price will be extremely high also for the fees. But remember that Bitcoin will be so much expensive than right now. |
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BurtW
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December 05, 2017, 01:37:58 PM |
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With the power requirements to run the BTC network continually increasing... what is the long term solution? It doesn't seem viable that it can go on forever like this. Anyone have good insight? It's easy to just assume... "well there will be cheaper energy in the future" or "BTC will just switch to POS".... I guess I'm looking for answers with a little more substance and detail. Thanks!
Maybe it the remaining Bitcoins will be mined the price will be extremely high also for the fees. But remember that Bitcoin will be so much expensive than right now. The higher the price of Bitcoins the more energy the mining sector will attempt to use. Raising the price of Bitcoins over time make the problem (total power consumption) worse, not better. See: ttps://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2465881.0 |
Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security. Read all about it here: http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/ Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated! |
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jkoin
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December 05, 2017, 01:56:52 PM |
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With the power requirements to run the BTC network continually increasing... what is the long term solution? It doesn't seem viable that it can go on forever like this. Anyone have good insight? It's easy to just assume... "well there will be cheaper energy in the future" or "BTC will just switch to POS".... I guess I'm looking for answers with a little more substance and detail. Thanks!
I do not really understand and understand the issue of miners, but it seems to me that soon bitcoin will replace a more promising and profitable currency. Which will be more profitable to mine. |
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BurtW
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December 05, 2017, 03:17:50 PM |
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With the power requirements to run the BTC network continually increasing... what is the long term solution? It doesn't seem viable that it can go on forever like this. Anyone have good insight? It's easy to just assume... "well there will be cheaper energy in the future" or "BTC will just switch to POS".... I guess I'm looking for answers with a little more substance and detail. Thanks!
I do not really understand and understand the issue of miners, but it seems to me that soon bitcoin will replace a more promising and profitable currency. Which will be more profitable to mine. You obviously purchased your "Hero" account. You have no idea what you are talking about. |
Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security. Read all about it here: http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/ Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated! |
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ldah94
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December 05, 2017, 08:55:50 PM |
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I think that, when a non-sustainable level of energy consumption is reached, it would be a good option to change the Bitcoin algorithm from "proof of work" to "proof of stake". This type of maintenance of the network requires much less energy than the generation of 'hashes proof of work' through specialized 'hardware'. In fact, it can be carried out with the personal computers of the network with the change of formula, Bitcoin could solve its energetic problem, although the idea does not seem to be near to become reality.
It is important that this issue be taken into account and seriously, the climatic consequences of this "technological development", which many think is beneficial, and in many aspects it is, could cause other major problems. Greed should not be allowed to guide the reins of bitcoin, something should be done, and it should be done soon.
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dasdo
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December 06, 2017, 11:11:06 AM |
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With the power requirements to run the BTC network continually increasing... what is the long term solution? It doesn't seem viable that it can go on forever like this. Anyone have good insight? It's easy to just assume... "well there will be cheaper energy in the future" or "BTC will just switch to POS".... I guess I'm looking for answers with a little more substance and detail. Thanks!
I do not really understand and understand the issue of miners, but it seems to me that soon bitcoin will replace a more promising and profitable currency. Which will be more profitable to mine. For example, such currency as Bitshares. |
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Xervo
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December 06, 2017, 02:48:26 PM |
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With the power requirements to run the BTC network continually increasing... what is the long term solution? It doesn't seem viable that it can go on forever like this. Anyone have good insight? It's easy to just assume... "well there will be cheaper energy in the future" or "BTC will just switch to POS".... I guess I'm looking for answers with a little more substance and detail. Thanks!
I do not really understand and understand the issue of miners, but it seems to me that soon bitcoin will replace a more promising and profitable currency. Which will be more profitable to mine. For example, such currency as Bitshares.    |
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BurtW
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December 06, 2017, 03:15:36 PM |
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I do not really understand and understand the issue of miners, but it seems to me that soon bitcoin will replace a more promising and profitable currency. Which will be more profitable to mine. For example, such currency as Bitshares.
Both reported as spam sock puppets. |
Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security. Read all about it here: http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/ Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated! |
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hateplesent
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December 06, 2017, 05:00:38 PM |
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With the power requirements to run the BTC network continually increasing... what is the long term solution? It doesn't seem viable that it can go on forever like this. Anyone have good insight? It's easy to just assume... "well there will be cheaper energy in the future" or "BTC will just switch to POS".... I guess I'm looking for answers with a little more substance and detail. Thanks!
increasing price will support mining and miners so it’s impossible to be POS before 2100 it’s easy to make massive amount from mining |
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mOgliE
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December 06, 2017, 05:27:40 PM |
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Hi,
What you are asking is indeed an interesting question... but as any interesting question, it does not have one simple answer I guess.
For the bitcoin, I suppose there are 2 options that are more likely to happen than other scenarii:
1- bitcoin community goes on growing and... the price of running the whole network is not sustainable anymore. The smartest make the most of last-moment selling and.. bitcoin dies
2 - the whole community understand such threat and instead of keeping running small businesses only aimed at short-term profits, bitcoiners develop alternative solutions to make bitcoin useful (in the sense possible to use) in everyone's everyday life.
Of course, I prefer option 2. But this must come from the community and the individuals composing it. We should understand we are not children playing anymore, and not big companies, government or institutions is gonna take the role of "parent". We can develop our own alternate solutions if we want to!
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ranggawulung
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December 08, 2017, 11:57:41 AM |
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With the power requirements to run the BTC network continually increasing... what is the long term solution? It doesn't seem viable that it can go on forever like this. Anyone have good insight? It's easy to just assume... "well there will be cheaper energy in the future" or "BTC will just switch to POS".... I guess I'm looking for answers with a little more substance and detail. Thanks!
I do not really understand and understand the issue of miners, but it seems to me that soon bitcoin will replace a more promising and profitable currency. Which will be more profitable to mine. For example, such currency as Bitshares. |
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J_Dubbs
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December 08, 2017, 04:06:29 PM |
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With the power requirements to run the BTC network continually increasing... what is the long term solution? It doesn't seem viable that it can go on forever like this. Anyone have good insight? It's easy to just assume... "well there will be cheaper energy in the future" or "BTC will just switch to POS".... I guess I'm looking for answers with a little more substance and detail. Thanks!
I also do not really understand and understand the miner's issues, but it seems to me that soon bitcoin will replace a more promising and profitable currency. Which will be more profitable to mine. For example, such currency as Bitshares. |
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