Is it still worth it to buy the KNC Jupiter?

[ujka]

That EU law (distant selling) is when dealing with consumers. Private buyers only, not bussiness.
KnC 'Terms and Conditions' states, they are selling to bussiness only, and then there is no consumer protection, and no 'cooling off' period.
https://www.kncminer.com/pages/tandc

[Spelon]

You´re correct. However, you can't override law in your terms and conditions. Unless you have presented business credentials when you bought the device (vat no, business id, etc) standard consumer law stands (double checked with the our consumer agency) and EU directives as well. 

[ujka]

Obviously, they think they can.
There are lots of things missing from their website that are mandatory by EU laws.

[Anarchaos]

Their site shows a bunch of diagrams, plans, etc but am I correct that there are no working models yet (mars aside)?

What indications do any of us have that KNC isn't following in BFL's footsteps and promising things that they really shouldn't be at this point in the product development process?

Do you guys think that a minirig is a better bet than a jupiter, even at the much higher price and wattage, and even if BFL will deliver it in oct at the earliest?

I really, really want to believe in KNC at this point, given BFL's track record, but I get the feeling that I may be overly optimistic.

[Otago]

Considering their Sept ship date and the incoming rise in difficulty?

Hash rate has jumped to 297,621Gh/s from 187,281GH/s since July 11^th a 59% rise in 10 days!

This is only the beginning of huge spike in ASIC deliveries. No machine will repay investment if delivered in October!

KnCMiner's machines are likely to be delayed even if only slightly. Is expected with a complex & advanced machine as is being offered. Especially considering even existing proven manufacturers are delivering late.

I have an order & am still worried about coming difficulty rises resulting in negative ROI.

[readonlyaccess]

Considering their Sept ship date and the incoming rise in difficulty?

Hash rate has jumped to 297,621Gh/s from 187,281GH/s since July 11^th a 59% rise in 10 days!

This is only the beginning of huge spike in ASIC deliveries. No machine will repay investment if delivered in October!

KnCMiner's machines are likely to be delayed even if only slightly. Is expected with a complex & advanced machine as is being offered. Especially considering even existing proven manufacturers are delivering late.

I have an order & am still worried about coming difficulty rises resulting in negative ROI.

Where are you seeing those hash rates?  I'm using this chart - http://bitcoindifficulty.com/

[Ytterbium]

The better question is not roi, but when will knc get their product out the door. September seems overly optimistic.

This too is a valid point. BFL rigs were probably great ROI when they were announced, but if you count in the delivery delay, ROI is greatly reduced. KNC hasn't shipped any ASICs before, so it remains to be seen if they can meet their delivery targets.

KnC is tightly integrated with ORSoC, which has been shipping ASICs since 2004.

[dracore]

Considering their Sept ship date and the incoming rise in difficulty?

Hash rate has jumped to 297,621Gh/s from 187,281GH/s since July 11^th a 59% rise in 10 days!

This is only the beginning of huge spike in ASIC deliveries. No machine will repay investment if delivered in October!

KnCMiner's machines are likely to be delayed even if only slightly. Is expected with a complex & advanced machine as is being offered. Especially considering even existing proven manufacturers are delivering late.

I have an order & am still worried about coming difficulty rises resulting in negative ROI.

Me too   Aurgh

[dracore]

Technically we can still cancel should this get any worse?  Playing with the numbers on Genesis Block, if delivered at end of October (basically Nov timeframe) we're totally screwed?  It's showing negative ROI

[Ytterbium]

Technically we can still cancel should this get any worse?  Playing with the numbers on Genesis Block, if delivered at end of October (basically Nov timeframe) we're totally screwed?  It's showing negative ROI

Yeah, we can cancel until September, however Given KnC's track record they may offer to double the order or something to make up for it. They can only afford to cancel so many orders, since they already paid to fab the chips, but sending extra chips wouldn't cost the customers as much.

[MrHempstock]

KnC is tightly integrated with ORSoC, which has been shipping ASICs since 2004.

^This

I've opted to buy shares in a Jupiter. It's an affordable way for me to get into a decent hashrate.

[berties]

I was planing in placing an order now!!!....but after hearing you guys, I don't know!!!
Do you know when were the first orders taken???

[FeedbackLoop]

I was planing in placing an order now!!!....but after hearing you guys, I don't know!!!
Do you know when were the first orders taken???

The orders started Jun 3. The pre-orders started months before.

Some people are reporting the status of their orders here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=249065.0

Notice that the next update from the replies is only due 11 of August by AFox.

[geofflosophy]

One thing I will add to this discussion is that CloudHashing.com is one of the first KnC customers in the queue, and they have reported that their delivery is still on track for September. They've also added another 20.X TH/s of orders recently. Granted, they have every incentive to say this in order to sell more contracts, but I am tentatively optimistic that they actually do have some special knowledge that we don't. This does not speak to when orders placed now will ship, but hopefully at the very least their September orders will arrive in September.

The other thing of note is that KnC has consistently maintained that they are under-promising in order to over-produce, and as of yet they have given no indication that they need to revise delivery projections.

By my calculations, even if you receive a Jupiter when the difficulty is like 120 million, it will still be profitable, though the profit will level off relatively shortly after break even so it won't exactly be printing money. The reason that I went with CloudHashing mining contracts is because of their 30% revenue reinvestment which will hopefully allow my hashrate to appreciate with the difficulty and keep me on the cutting edge of new ASIC technologies as they hit the market. As an individual miner, 30% revenue reinvestment can't really work in the same way because of the high upfront costs of doing any upgrades.

Just my $0.02.

[bitly]

One thing I will add to this discussion is that CloudHashing.com is one of the first KnC customers in the queue, and they have reported that their delivery is still on track for September. They've also added another 20.X TH/s of orders recently. Granted, they have every incentive to say this in order to sell more contracts, but I am tentatively optimistic that they actually do have some special knowledge that we don't. This does not speak to when orders placed now will ship, but hopefully at the very least their September orders will arrive in September.

The other thing of note is that KnC has consistently maintained that they are under-promising in order to over-produce, and as of yet they have given no indication that they need to revise delivery projections.

By my calculations, even if you receive a Jupiter when the difficulty is like 120 million, it will still be profitable, though the profit will level off relatively shortly after break even so it won't exactly be printing money. The reason that I went with CloudHashing mining contracts is because of their 30% revenue reinvestment which will hopefully allow my hashrate to appreciate with the difficulty and keep me on the cutting edge of new ASIC technologies as they hit the market. As an individual miner, 30% revenue reinvestment can't really work in the same way because of the high upfront costs of doing any upgrades.

Just my $0.02.

Very helpful thoughts. Thanks.

I eventually ordered mine individually. I need to look into CloudHashing.com

[geofflosophy]

One thing I will add to this discussion is that CloudHashing.com is one of the first KnC customers in the queue, and they have reported that their delivery is still on track for September. They've also added another 20.X TH/s of orders recently. Granted, they have every incentive to say this in order to sell more contracts, but I am tentatively optimistic that they actually do have some special knowledge that we don't. This does not speak to when orders placed now will ship, but hopefully at the very least their September orders will arrive in September.

The other thing of note is that KnC has consistently maintained that they are under-promising in order to over-produce, and as of yet they have given no indication that they need to revise delivery projections.

By my calculations, even if you receive a Jupiter when the difficulty is like 120 million, it will still be profitable, though the profit will level off relatively shortly after break even so it won't exactly be printing money. The reason that I went with CloudHashing mining contracts is because of their 30% revenue reinvestment which will hopefully allow my hashrate to appreciate with the difficulty and keep me on the cutting edge of new ASIC technologies as they hit the market. As an individual miner, 30% revenue reinvestment can't really work in the same way because of the high upfront costs of doing any upgrades.

Just my $0.02.

Very helpful thoughts. Thanks.

I eventually ordered mine individually. I need to look into CloudHashing.com

Update from CloudHashing, they expect to have 105 TH/s from KnC up and running by the end of September: http://www.cloudhashing.com/newsletter/august2013.html

[ridnovir]

If I were to buy Jupiter now the shipment would be in October (I have contacted KnC and they cannot specify when in October) will it make sense considering most of the orders will be already delivered in September.

[mctaggart]

I have been trying to decide where ever or not it is worth it to buy a KNC now for the October run before it closes. I must have read these sites a million times to try and decide. I think come End of October with the influx of KNC equipment hashing in Sept the difficulty is going to go way off the chart.

I dont think it would ROI

Gutted as i really want to mine some bloody coins, just now is a shit time to buy equipment if you havent got in early! Think i will hold off and buy the next gen equipment which will be the terrahash range

[geofflosophy]

I have been trying to decide where ever or not it is worth it to buy a KNC now for the October run before it closes. I must have read these sites a million times to try and decide. I think come End of October with the influx of KNC equipment hashing in Sept the difficulty is going to go way off the chart.

I dont think it would ROI

Gutted as i really want to mine some bloody coins, just now is a shit time to buy equipment if you havent got in early! Think i will hold off and buy the next gen equipment which will be the terrahash range

They've also said they will be dropping prices significantly for November once October fills up. If you're caught on the edge of that it could be more profitable to wait...

[MrHempstock]

At this point my answer would be if your delivery date is likely to be Sep or Oct, then yes it is a pretty good bet.
If not, save up and wait for genertion 2 which will be beginning of next year.