Block chain size/storage and slow downloads for new users

[Mikestang]

If we can have trusted places where we can download software without the fear of them being infected with viruses/malware then we can have trusted operators/nodes so that some users can use only a lightweight client without burdening them with a full node requirement.

Uhhh, there is no "full node requirement", there already exist a multitude of lightweight wallets that do not require you to d/l the block chain and there are thousands of trusted places these wallets look to, they're called full nodes; I think you're missing the point.

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[RoadStress]

If you're gonna just go trusting people, then why do you need your transaction on the block chain? The block chain is for when you don't trust anyone. You are arguing in favor of what amounts to security theater. People are worse off if they think simply having a private key is what makes their funds safe. Instead of them trusting a node to relay their petty transactions, they can just as well trust a bitcoin denominated bank to make a promise on their behalf. The banks can then settle balance differences in large chunks on a daily basis, thereby keeping the size of the block chain minimal. In this way, anybody can verify the process with an inexpensive node plugged into their home router. Whereas with your proposal, only a few wealthy people can verify the process despite everyone having access.

You have conceded that the common man will have to trust someone. Please stop with this nonsense that we must also make the block chain impossible for the common man to verify. It is not necessary to have both these results; only one is needed.

Since this is a consensus network used by everyone (big companies along with random private individuals) I think it is obvious to say that the small private user can get along with the consensus trust derived from the fact that those that have a bigger stake into blockchain will not allow history to be re-written. This is how we get to the whitelisted/blacklisted nodes.

I am thinking that BitPay or Coinbase is able to setup various full nodes all over the globe and the small users can whitelist their nodes so that they shouldn't worry that much about the blockchain being altered! In the Bitcoin ecosystem the security is the same for the big companies and for the small individual and a change in the blockchain history would affect both in the same time. The big companies will focus more on the blockchain security since they have much more to lose while the small guys can just leech the blockchain history from them.

I find this to be a very logic and productive way of working with this issue this instead of being a retard and simply banning those that can't afford to run a full node like your boss MP wants to do.

As previously said if you trust Google servers to host your Google Chrome copy then you will definitely trust Exchangers and Payment Processors to have an unaltered blockchain at everyone's disposal.

Uhhh, there is no "full node requirement", there already exist a multitude of lightweight wallets that do not require you to d/l the block chain and there are thousands of trusted places these wallets look to, they're called full nodes; I think you're missing the point.

Pay attention to the full context/discussion please.

I know that there is no "full node requirement", but our friend here danielpbarron who is just Mircea Popescu's obedient dog is saying that anyone that isn't running a full node shouldn't use bitcoin which is utterly stupid and retarded and it will never happen. Here is where the discussion started:

If you aren't running a full node, you aren't using bitcoin! That's not me "forcing" anything; it's just a fact.

He is afraid that the US Government will seize "the whole thing" like he saw in the movies...

I would really like to see Russian nodes being seized by the US Gov. That would be something new.

[Mikestang]

Pay attention to the full context/discussion please.

I know that there is no "full node requirement", but our friend here danielpbarron who is just Mircea Popescu's obedient dog is saying that anyone that isn't running a full node shouldn't use bitcoin which is utterly stupid and retarded and it will never happen.

Got it, thanks, things get lost in these long threads.  I agree with your take, lots of people are not going to run full nodes for a variety of reasons and there's nothing wrong with that (and they are still using bitcoin).

[tomaz]

How I can get back a lost wallet? Somebodey can help me plss??

[RoadStress]

How I can get back a lost wallet? Somebodey can help me plss??

Does "Block chain size/storage and slow downloads for new users" sounds like a good place to ask how do you get back a lost wallet? Ask yourself that with loud voice.

Now...What does a lost wallet mean? Are we supposed to guess whatever happened with your wallet? Provide more details maybe...

[tvbcof]

How I can get back a lost wallet? Somebodey can help me plss??

Then NSA may have a copy, especially if it had once resided on a mobile device.  So, become a fairly high positioned person in that organization or someone who they classify as a 'customer' and you may be able to retrieve it.  Don't worry if this process takes a while...lots of the data collected, and especially data of this nature, wouldn't be worth gathering in the first place if it were not to be retained indefinitely.

[danielpbarron]

I am thinking that BitPay or Coinbase is able to setup various full nodes all over the globe and the small users can whitelist their nodes so that they shouldn't worry that much about the blockchain being altered! In the Bitcoin ecosystem the security is the same for the big companies and for the small individual and a change in the blockchain history would affect both in the same time. The big companies will focus more on the blockchain security since they have much more to lose while the small guys can just leech the blockchain history from them.

I am thinking I don't want to rely on the say-so of companies that are already in bed with the USG. I am thinking that if a small group of USG-friendly companies has a monopoly on the full node market, they will eventually start rewriting history to airdrop free bitcoin into government coffers. These are the kinds of conclusions a thinking person can arrive at; what is it you're doing? You call it thinking?

As previously said if you trust Google servers to host your Google Chrome copy then you will definitely trust Exchangers and Payment Processors to have an unaltered blockchain at everyone's disposal.

Google Chrome isn't responsible for the world's money supply.. But I get what you're trying to suggest -- that bitcoin to FIAT exchanges must have only the best intentions.. Pay no mind that they are FIAT companies; not bitcoin companiesⁱ! Does the block chain demand KYC compliance? Nope; that's a FIAT requirement. These companies will do what it takes to remain in the good graces of their FIAT overlords, and I "definitely" don't trust them to keep an unaltered block chain if left alone with the task.


i : Actual Bitcoin corporations (ABCs) versus fiat-based frauds trying to masquerade as Bitcoin companies (while masquerading as companies in the first place) on the solid theory that the general public is too stupid to make any difference, this one included, and on the flimsy theory that the general public matters in Bitcoin (FBF-TTMABC-WMACITFP-OTSTTTGPITSTMAD-TOI-AOTFTTTGPMIBs, alphabets for short).

The situation is exactly the same in Bitcoin : on one hand there are the actual Bitcoin companies, dedicated to building a new house. These mostly gather around MPEx. Then there are the pseudo-Bitcoin companies, which use Bitcoin like they used "synergy" or "dotcom" before. To them it's a simple buzzword, intended as a means to separate dollar-holders from their dollar-holdings.

[tomaz]

How I can get back a lost wallet? Somebodey can help me plss??

Does "Block chain size/storage and slow downloads for new users" sounds like a good place to ask how do you get back a lost wallet? Ask yourself that with loud voice.

Now...What does a lost wallet mean? Are we supposed to guess whatever happened with your wallet? Provide more details maybe...

aha ok thanks.

[davout]

while the small guys can just leech the blockchain history from them.

For free obviously.

[KoranX]

while the small guys can just leech the blockchain history from them.

For free obviously.

yes, it must be concern it.
do you feel this will take problem in future?

[crazyearner]

I will be happy when blockchain and client is read off cloud storage if that ever comes. Saves massive amounts of data on ones system to be gobbled up by transactions. Something like this should happened due to many people not wanting to have to download the entire block chain. Yes theirs alt clients but come at a risk and even blockchain.info has its own problems for security and accounts being hacked or missing coins.

[Mikestang]

I will be happy when blockchain and client is read off cloud storage if that ever comes.

Cloud = centralization

I'll never use anything "in the cloud".

I don't see why people complain about 30 or so gigs.  A terabyte is cheap, no one should be complaining about data storage in 2015.

[Phoenix1969]

I will be happy when blockchain and client is read off cloud storage if that ever comes.

Cloud = centralization

I'll never use anything "in the cloud".

I don't see why people complain about 30 or so gigs.  A terabyte is cheap, no one should be complaining about data storage in 2015.

There could be a decentralized, unrealistic solution to that....
Like when you install your qt wallet, you use the "windows cloud-storage folder" to install the data directory to... or similar.
But that would sure be bandwidth intensive if it worked.

Best way I've found to use a wallet is to use a usb 3.0 stick for the entire wallet.
...also... syncing your wallet on a quad-core I-7 is about 6 days faster than on a dual core AMD A6 using the same connection.
... just so everyone is aware that your processing power has everything to do with sync speeds if you have a decent internet connection.
I can sync the QT wallet in about 7 hours from scratch on a Verizon moto-droid wi-fi hotspot with an I7, but not on the AMD A6, it's an all-week job with that one.

[Jybrael]

You know a lot of the other cryptocurrencies are starting to use wallets with Bootstrap.dat...option...which kind of allows you to sync it up faster...I guess...not sure too much about the technical side..so I don't know what to say...wouldn't something like that be an option?

[shorena]

You know a lot of the other cryptocurrencies are starting to use wallets with Bootstrap.dat...option...which kind of allows you to sync it up faster...I guess...not sure too much about the technical side..so I don't know what to say...wouldn't something like that be an option?

Bitcoin is already beyond the bootstrap.dat. For most users using 0.10. is way faster than using the bootstrap.dat from a torrent. This does not reduce the size though, just the download and verify speed. The big advantage is that the newest client can sync from several peers at once and does no longer need the blocks in order (42 after 41, etc.).

[Jybrael]

Wow thanks for informing me about that..I was getting worried that once I have to reformat my computer I might have to restart the whole troublesome process of syncing all over again and it will take me ages...

[newcripto]

I have one question if anyone willing to answer will be thankful.Is there bootstrap or blockchain data for Bitcoin available ? Last days something went wrong to my computer and began to appear error with Bitcoin wallet core 0.10.0 and I was needed to download all blockchain. It took 3 days to sync it till today. The purpose of asking this someone else or I may be again if have problem that bootstrap will help to sync fast.

[shorena]

I have one question if anyone willing to answer will be thankful.Is there bootstrap or blockchain data for Bitcoin available ? Last days something went wrong to my computer and began to appear error with Bitcoin wallet core 0.10.0 and I was needed to download all blockchain. It took 3 days to sync it till today. The purpose of asking this someone else or I may be again if have problem that bootstrap will help to sync fast.

There might be still bootstrap files around, but you could do even better. The bootstrap.dat data has to be verified because it comes from an unstrusted source (someone else). Since you currently have all the data, you could (periodically) create a backup of the entire folder. This will not only ensure you do not have to redownload the data, you also dont have to verify it again. The time it takes to verify the data is highly dependant on your CPU/Disk speed, but its probably in the realm of a few hours.

[M95]

Imagine in 10 years's time, it wont take a week to sinc, but a generation.

In 10 years I think we'll have a working combination of zero knowledge proofs plus committed UTXO sets that make syncing all the way back to the genesis block unnecessary.

Even though the amount of things to sync is increased, probably the speed of syncing is also increased.

[vencelylalas]

Thanks for the update