kslaughter AND zumzero from ActM and VMC are deleting legitimate posts!

[RoadStress]

If it's a scam, then Ken has left himself very exposed by registering in the US. Also, a couple of AMC's biggest doubters are heading on a community sponsored road trip to check out AMC/VMC. (Ref: see AMC'S security thread.) So, I would hold off on those conclusions until that fact-finding mission is fulfilled.

I wasn't jumping for conclusions. I was just pointing out his conduct with legitimate questions. Now he gave a decent reply and i'm waiting to see the prototype boards hashing. Mission accomplished.

[firefop]

The biggest problem is that there are so many scams nowadays that people just jump into conclusions, especially when the hardware looks very good, and the bashing starts.

In this case, yes, VMC is a whole owned subsidiary of ActiveMining and the chip development is not being paid with pre-orders, but with funds from ActiveMining shares sold and mining profits.

Nobody jumped to any conclusions.

Here's a copy of my last (and also deleted post from the thread) and if you'd been reading regularly since it's posting you'd have seen all the evidence yourself.
I should point out that the only difference between (originally) obvious scam and others is that the OP has refined his scam to bypass some of the concerns raised in the thread. Example: no longer accepting pre-orders. Editing some of his posts to correct spelling and grammar errors. Completely removing his 'defense' of his previous scams as well as all mention of them in the thread.

~


Lets recap the thread by going down FireFop's ASIC SCAM checklist:

1. CEO posting on forum?
2. Spelling and grammar errors?
3. Insane expectations re: development speed.
4. Accepting pre-orders.
5. Unrealistic pricing.
6. Dox quickly linked showing CEO has a history of scams.
7. CEO attempts to defend former scam(s) in the process revealing even worse spelling and grammar - even less understanding on the industry he's supposedly had experience in.
8. Someone breaks the business modem wide open using the numbers provided by the OP. Invalidates offering via economics and math.

Final Score 7/8 (nobody got #8, because scammer neglected to publish numbers).

+1 Bonus point for the scammer providing his own links to documentation of former scams!
+1 bonus point for the scammer correcting "typos" on his website!

Total Scam rating 112.5% scammy (not a new record unfortunately).

@OP 'nitch' is actually spelled niche... you know in case you wanted to go back and fix your spelling.

[Vbs]

There's already a 147 page AMC thread bashing AMC/VMC in any and every way possible. Not getting into this debate further. Sorry.

You've already more than made up your mind. Don't like, don't buy.

[Exocyst]

Honestly, I get where your coming from (I have a BFL ore-order). But, using the word "Scam" on hardware producers thread is likely to be deleted under all circumstances even if your scam comments are tangential rather than a direct accusation against the company (i.e. "taking pre-orders is what scammers do"). You have to understand that legit companies tightly control public relations (and so do scammers).

[iikun]

I had 3 posts deleted by him, incl one where I pointed out he was illegally using an unlicensed image from a photo providing service without paying.  Great way to do business for a start, and this post deletion really builds trust!  I might go buy (read: pre-order) one of your totally unproven 4TH units right now!

[iikun]

There's already a 147 page AMC thread bashing AMC/VMC in any and every way possible. Not getting into this debate further. Sorry.

You've already more than made up your mind. Don't like, don't buy.

I don't know about others, but it annoys me that AMC/VMC has created so many threads. It's totally unnecessary for a business which to date has exactly zero products.  If he stuck to his own little corner then he would be left alone a lot more, but when he creates new threads every week he kind of gets in peoples faces a bit too much...

[RoadStress]

Honestly, I get where your coming from (I have a BFL ore-order). But, using the word "Scam" on hardware producers thread is likely to be deleted under all circumstances even if your scam comments are tangential rather than a direct accusation against the company (i.e. "taking pre-orders is what scammers do"). You have to understand that legit companies tightly control public relations (and so do scammers).

Where have you seen the word scam on mine and others deleted posts?

[Vbs]

I don't know about others, but it annoys me that AMC/VMC has created so many threads. It's totally unnecessary for a business which to date has exactly zero products.  If he stuck to his own little corner then he would be left alone a lot more, but when he creates new threads every week he kind of gets in peoples faces a bit too much...

Yes, I'm sure 99% of the threads on this sub-forum have already existing products ready to be shipped.

[RoadStress]

I don't know about others, but it annoys me that AMC/VMC has created so many threads. It's totally unnecessary for a business which to date has exactly zero products.  If he stuck to his own little corner then he would be left alone a lot more, but when he creates new threads every week he kind of gets in peoples faces a bit too much...

Yes, I'm sure 99% of the threads on this sub-forum have already existing products ready to be shipped.

But at least users are allowed to talk on the threads instead of being deleted like in VMC thread...

I mean this lower than retard Inaba's practices. I don't even care if he has or not a product, but this practice makes me puke.

[Vbs]

But at least users are allowed to talk on the threads instead of being deleted like in VMC thread...

I mean this lower than retard Inaba's practices. I don't even care if he has or not a product, but this practice makes me puke.

Yes, but everyone has a different threshold for being called a scammer over and over and over and over again. The community is generally very quick to pull the trigger.

There are plenty of scams being thrown around, but there has to be a line in the sand somewhere, as more proof is brought to light. Thinking everything is a scam is as bad as thinking everyone is trustworthy.

[firefop]

Ideally I don't think that op-moderated threads should live in general forums - they should have their own sub-forum - and sales shouldn't be allowed there at all.

So if someone is 'selling' something it then gets moved to correct sub-forum and OP is no longer able to remove posts.

We as a community have an interest in keeping the general forums as a place for discussion rather than advertisements/propaganda.

[iikun]

I don't know about others, but it annoys me that AMC/VMC has created so many threads. It's totally unnecessary for a business which to date has exactly zero products.  If he stuck to his own little corner then he would be left alone a lot more, but when he creates new threads every week he kind of gets in peoples faces a bit too much...

Yes, I'm sure 99% of the threads on this sub-forum have already existing products ready to be shipped.

and how many threads do they create? 

kslaughter now has more than either Asicminer and Avalon.

[TheSwede75]

Original Miner hash rate, price an delivery date:

100 Fast-Hash-80's**    @ 80 GH/s each for a total of: 8 TH/s
Specifications: 110nm 282 MH/s chip 75 chips per board 4 boards per unit
Estimated retail value @ ~$6,000 each for a total of $600,000
(Estimated to be delivered August 2013)

100 Fast-Hash-80's**    @ 80 GH/s each for a total of: 8 TH/s
Specifications: 110nm 282 MH/s chip 75 chips per board 4 boards per unit
Estimated retail value @ ~$6,000 each for a total of $600,000
(Estimated to be delivered October 2013)

100 Fast-Hash-80's**    @ 80 GH/s each for a total of: 8 TH/s
Specifications: 110nm 282 MH/s chip 75 chips per board 4 boards per unit
Estimated retail value @ ~$6,000 each for a total of $600,000
(Estimated to be delivered December 2013)

100 Fast-Hash-80's**    @ 80 GH/s each for a total of: 8 TH/s
Specifications: 110nm 282 MH/s chip 75 chips per board 4 boards per unit
Estimated retail value @ ~$6,000 each for a total of $600,000
(Estimated to be delivered February 2014)

100 Fast-Hash-400's**    @ 400 GH/s each for a total of: 40 TH/s
Specifications: 45nm 6 GH/s chip 75 chips per board 1 board per unit
Estimated retail value @ ~$30,000 each for a total of $3,000,000
(Estimated to be delivered March 2014)

100 Fast-Hash-800's**    @ 800 GH/s each for a total of: 80 TH/s
Specifications: 45nm 6 GH/s chip 75 chips per board 2 boards per unit
Estimated retail value @ ~$60,000 each for a total of $6,000,000
(Estimated to be delivered May 2014)

100 Fast-Hash-1.2T's**    @ 1.2 TH/s each for a total of: 120 TH/s
Specifications: 28nm 9 GH/s chip 75 chips per board 1 board per unit
Estimated retail value @ ~$100,000 each for a total of $10,000,000
(Estimated to be delivered July 2014)

100 Fast-Hash-2.4T's**    @ 2.4 TH/s each for a total of: 240 TH/s
Specifications: 28nm 9 GH/s chip 75 chips per board 2 board per unit
Estimated retail value @ ~$200,000 each for a total of $20,000,000
(Estimated to be delivered September 2014)

100 Fast-Hash-4.8T's**    @ 4.8 TH/s each for a total of: 480 TH/s
Specifications: 28nm 9 GH/s chip 75 chips per board 4 board per unit
Estimated retail value @ ~$400,000 each for a total of $40,000,000
(Estimated to be delivered December 2014)


I especially enjoy the calculation that they were selling 80 GH/S Avalon clones in FEB 2014 for BTC80+
(Wait, isn't that around going rate for a Avalon Batch 2 order?)

No wonder they decided to 'change' the price, delivery date and hash-speed. I guess the question now (if they have moved to 28 nm) is what they are going to do with the 10.000s of already ordered Avalon chips?

I just can't stomach a company changing their plans this way AFTER raising 1000s of BTC from an IPO. Sorry.

[iikun]

Ideally I don't think that op-moderated threads should live in general forums - they should have their own sub-forum - and sales shouldn't be allowed there at all.

So if someone is 'selling' something it then gets moved to correct sub-forum and OP is no longer able to remove posts.

We as a community have an interest in keeping the general forums as a place for discussion rather than advertisements/propaganda.

+1 on this

[Bitcoinorama]

Original Miner hash rate, price an delivery date:

100 Fast-Hash-80's**    @ 80 GH/s each for a total of: 8 TH/s
Specifications: 110nm 282 MH/s chip 75 chips per board 4 boards per unit
Estimated retail value @ ~$6,000 each for a total of $600,000
(Estimated to be delivered August 2013)

100 Fast-Hash-80's**    @ 80 GH/s each for a total of: 8 TH/s
Specifications: 110nm 282 MH/s chip 75 chips per board 4 boards per unit
Estimated retail value @ ~$6,000 each for a total of $600,000
(Estimated to be delivered October 2013)

100 Fast-Hash-80's**    @ 80 GH/s each for a total of: 8 TH/s
Specifications: 110nm 282 MH/s chip 75 chips per board 4 boards per unit
Estimated retail value @ ~$6,000 each for a total of $600,000
(Estimated to be delivered December 2013)

100 Fast-Hash-80's**    @ 80 GH/s each for a total of: 8 TH/s
Specifications: 110nm 282 MH/s chip 75 chips per board 4 boards per unit
Estimated retail value @ ~$6,000 each for a total of $600,000
(Estimated to be delivered February 2014)

100 Fast-Hash-400's**    @ 400 GH/s each for a total of: 40 TH/s
Specifications: 45nm 6 GH/s chip 75 chips per board 1 board per unit
Estimated retail value @ ~$30,000 each for a total of $3,000,000
(Estimated to be delivered March 2014)

100 Fast-Hash-800's**    @ 800 GH/s each for a total of: 80 TH/s
Specifications: 45nm 6 GH/s chip 75 chips per board 2 boards per unit
Estimated retail value @ ~$60,000 each for a total of $6,000,000
(Estimated to be delivered May 2014)

100 Fast-Hash-1.2T's**    @ 1.2 TH/s each for a total of: 120 TH/s
Specifications: 28nm 9 GH/s chip 75 chips per board 1 board per unit
Estimated retail value @ ~$100,000 each for a total of $10,000,000
(Estimated to be delivered July 2014)

100 Fast-Hash-2.4T's**    @ 2.4 TH/s each for a total of: 240 TH/s
Specifications: 28nm 9 GH/s chip 75 chips per board 2 board per unit
Estimated retail value @ ~$200,000 each for a total of $20,000,000
(Estimated to be delivered September 2014)

100 Fast-Hash-4.8T's**    @ 4.8 TH/s each for a total of: 480 TH/s
Specifications: 28nm 9 GH/s chip 75 chips per board 4 board per unit
Estimated retail value @ ~$400,000 each for a total of $40,000,000
(Estimated to be delivered December 2014)


I especially enjoy the calculation that they were selling 80 GH/S Avalon clones in FEB 2014 for BTC80+
(Wait, isn't that around going rate for a Avalon Batch 2 order?)

No wonder they decided to 'change' the price, delivery date and hash-speed. I guess the question now (if they have moved to 28 nm) is what they are going to do with the 10.000s of already ordered Avalon chips?

I just can't stomach a company changing their plans this way AFTER raising 1000s of BTC from an IPO. Sorry.

They had the old prices up there for a long time,

They had always stated they would be using the Avalon chips to mine for AMC (now combined with VMC, called AM)

Obviously pricing is always going to change based on what the future holds, asking a company not to change their price ever seems strange.

Companies should always evolves their plans around making more money for their shareholders, not staying on one path. Change is welcome if it is smart and so far every change that is occurring is a good one.

Yes, but weren't VMC already accepting pre-order cash for vapourware they now have no intention of delivering, now they've scrapped all original devices and are claiming a total turn on the spot?

Again a company that spends more time on creating a website than producing goods. What are the chances they will change products a third time? Why bother to update the site until you have something solid and at least in production?!

AMC/VMC would have less of a mountain to climb if they just ditched AMC/VMC and started afresh when they had something tangible and concrete instead of hot air and false promises. Instead they now have created distrust, and have pretty sites with products that don't exist replacing products that were promised and will never exist. Why believe these new future products are anything other than speculative concepts? If anything this is the most dire PR of any Bitcoin ASIC company yet, including Butterfly Labs.

Don't promise what you have no intention of delivering...instead under promise and over deliver!

[Vbs]

Yes, but weren't VMC already accepting pre-order cash for vapourware they now have no intention of delivering, now they've scrapped all original devices and are claiming a total turn on the spot?

Again a company that spends more time on creating a website than producing goods. What are the chances they will change products a third time? Why bother to update the site until you have something solid and at least in production?!

AMC/VMC would have less of a mountain to climb if they just ditched AMC/VMC and started afresh when they had something tangible and concrete instead of hot air and false promises. Instead they now have created distrust, and have pretty sites with products that don't exist replacing products that were promised and will never exist. Why believe these new future products are anything other than speculative concepts? If anything this is the most dire PR of any Bitcoin ASIC company yet, including Butterfly Labs.

Don't promise what you have no intention of delivering...instead under promise and over deliver!

VMC was selling pre-orders of Avalon clones during a specific time-frame. Any that were not sold will be used for mining under ActiveMining, so they will definitely exist, just not to whoever didn't order one. There are 2 orders of 10,000 Avalon chips, one from the last days of May and another from the beginning of June, so those 20,000 chips will need a home. The current systems listed are based on the 28nm chip specs.

Sorry, but most of what you said can be applied to KnC too, for example. They are accepting pre-orders for products that are still in the design stage. Same thing.

[iikun]

Yes, but weren't VMC already accepting pre-order cash for vapourware they now have no intention of delivering, now they've scrapped all original devices and are claiming a total turn on the spot?

Again a company that spends more time on creating a website than producing goods. What are the chances they will change products a third time? Why bother to update the site until you have something solid and at least in production?!

AMC/VMC would have less of a mountain to climb if they just ditched AMC/VMC and started afresh when they had something tangible and concrete instead of hot air and false promises. Instead they now have created distrust, and have pretty sites with products that don't exist replacing products that were promised and will never exist. Why believe these new future products are anything other than speculative concepts? If anything this is the most dire PR of any Bitcoin ASIC company yet, including Butterfly Labs.

Don't promise what you have no intention of delivering...instead under promise and over deliver!

VMC was selling pre-orders of Avalon clones during a specific time-frame. Any that were not sold will be used for mining under ActiveMining, so they will definitely exist, just not to whoever didn't order one. There are 2 orders of 10,000 Avalon chips, one from the last days of May and another from the beginning of June, so those 20,000 chips will need a home. The current systems listed are based on the 28nm chip specs.

Sorry, but most of what you said can be applied to KnC too, for example. They are accepting pre-orders for products that are still in the design stage. Same thing.

"but Johnny did it too...!"  is the worst kind of excuse

Personally I don't have much faith in KnC either, but at least they appear to be a lot more above board than KSlaughter.  Seriously, who posts unreported 'media release' type information in the 3rd person? lol

[Bitcoinorama]

Yes, but weren't VMC already accepting pre-order cash for vapourware they now have no intention of delivering, now they've scrapped all original devices and are claiming a total turn on the spot?

Again a company that spends more time on creating a website than producing goods. What are the chances they will change products a third time? Why bother to update the site until you have something solid and at least in production?!

AMC/VMC would have less of a mountain to climb if they just ditched AMC/VMC and started afresh when they had something tangible and concrete instead of hot air and false promises. Instead they now have created distrust, and have pretty sites with products that don't exist replacing products that were promised and will never exist. Why believe these new future products are anything other than speculative concepts? If anything this is the most dire PR of any Bitcoin ASIC company yet, including Butterfly Labs.

Don't promise what you have no intention of delivering...instead under promise and over deliver!

VMC was selling pre-orders of Avalon clones during a specific time-frame. Any that were not sold will be used for mining under ActiveMining, so they will definitely exist, just not to whoever didn't order one. The current ones listed are based on the 28nm chip specs.

Sorry, but most of what you said can be applied to KnC too, for example. They are accepting pre-orders for products that are still in the design stage. Same thing.

Bitcoinorama is hardcore on the KnC Train,

I am too (10 Jupiters ordered), but that doesn't cloud my judgement of another company.

There are a thousand ways to do the same thing, some ways are more "correct" than others but that doesn't matter really as long as they reach the same destination.

I still don't understand your point about them changing their pricing/specs. If you have a product that isn't selling (regardless of if it is vapourware or not) you have to make changes in order to actually sell it. I'm sure he probably received interest in his products but no actual pre-orders, and if he did I'm also sure that he is giving them the new prices.

On your second note, the reason they update all of these prices/specs is because they do have something "in production". If a signed NDA is the beginning of the production process...

Since now they can actually assess their costs and current difficulty trend.

In my opinion they seem to be in the same spot KnC was when they started taking pre-orders, just without the FPGA.

Sorry total disagreement here. I'm on the receiving end of a fair bit of negativity as I flew to Sweden to check out KnC.

That doesn't make me hardcore anything, just diligent. I've been fair to every company, including Terrahash as you well know, but I will call a spade a spade.

Admittedly I wasn't fully aware of AMC's role in bulk Avalon chip orders as they choose to post outside of the custom hardware section, so then there is some sense in VMC suddenly change in product offering, but not post deletion. That is a PR clusterfuck now that is biting KSlaughter, and will continue to until he has something Tangible. KnC have never done that.

Also KnC have a shit-hot design team with multiple NDAs signed over the years with multiple foundries. Not that an NDA means shit these days anyway, and before someone tries to claim the opposite, it really doesn't, not to any decent legal team.

VMC now have a new product offering, but we have yet to see any evidence of talent aside web design, that's a huuuuge difference.

In any case I'm bullish on KnC as they are a cracking bunch of quality engineers who appear to have integrity and the competitive mindset required to succeed, but I'm longing to see some other competition that doesn't contain a bunch of amateurs (this last sentence is in not way directed at KSlaughter, it's a generalised statement of the current companies and how they publicly choose to behave through their own free choice).

EDIT: I was initially very positive about today's 'Krater Mining' until I saw their pricing!! I'm also very keen on the DIY set, but as I have stated numerous times the amount of unknown intermediaries there as chips are delivered, distributed, sent for assembly, resent to final destination is potentially quite scary. Butterfly Labs and Avalon both appear to be wasting once in lifetime business opportunities they will regret later in unless they get their shit together. Butterfly Labs are incompetent. Bitsyncom's blazé attitude to running a business, is immature at best, but is Yifu's mistake to make. You can only encourage him. I appreciate he likes development more, but for a 23 year old, as cool as he appears to be given an opportunity like he has and to turn around and say he's not motivated by it is nuts. He has been given the gift of having talent in the right place at the right time, and could do so much more. I really hope he doesn't throw it away for his sake. I'm sure he's secured employment through a now stella CV, but who really wants to remain an employee when they can run a real profitable and exciting business?

[TheSwede75]

Original Miner hash rate, price an delivery date:

100 Fast-Hash-80's**    @ 80 GH/s each for a total of: 8 TH/s
Specifications: 110nm 282 MH/s chip 75 chips per board 4 boards per unit
Estimated retail value @ ~$6,000 each for a total of $600,000
(Estimated to be delivered August 2013)

100 Fast-Hash-80's**    @ 80 GH/s each for a total of: 8 TH/s
Specifications: 110nm 282 MH/s chip 75 chips per board 4 boards per unit
Estimated retail value @ ~$6,000 each for a total of $600,000
(Estimated to be delivered October 2013)

100 Fast-Hash-80's**    @ 80 GH/s each for a total of: 8 TH/s
Specifications: 110nm 282 MH/s chip 75 chips per board 4 boards per unit
Estimated retail value @ ~$6,000 each for a total of $600,000
(Estimated to be delivered December 2013)

100 Fast-Hash-80's**    @ 80 GH/s each for a total of: 8 TH/s
Specifications: 110nm 282 MH/s chip 75 chips per board 4 boards per unit
Estimated retail value @ ~$6,000 each for a total of $600,000
(Estimated to be delivered February 2014)

100 Fast-Hash-400's**    @ 400 GH/s each for a total of: 40 TH/s
Specifications: 45nm 6 GH/s chip 75 chips per board 1 board per unit
Estimated retail value @ ~$30,000 each for a total of $3,000,000
(Estimated to be delivered March 2014)

100 Fast-Hash-800's**    @ 800 GH/s each for a total of: 80 TH/s
Specifications: 45nm 6 GH/s chip 75 chips per board 2 boards per unit
Estimated retail value @ ~$60,000 each for a total of $6,000,000
(Estimated to be delivered May 2014)

100 Fast-Hash-1.2T's**    @ 1.2 TH/s each for a total of: 120 TH/s
Specifications: 28nm 9 GH/s chip 75 chips per board 1 board per unit
Estimated retail value @ ~$100,000 each for a total of $10,000,000
(Estimated to be delivered July 2014)

100 Fast-Hash-2.4T's**    @ 2.4 TH/s each for a total of: 240 TH/s
Specifications: 28nm 9 GH/s chip 75 chips per board 2 board per unit
Estimated retail value @ ~$200,000 each for a total of $20,000,000
(Estimated to be delivered September 2014)

100 Fast-Hash-4.8T's**    @ 4.8 TH/s each for a total of: 480 TH/s
Specifications: 28nm 9 GH/s chip 75 chips per board 4 board per unit
Estimated retail value @ ~$400,000 each for a total of $40,000,000
(Estimated to be delivered December 2014)


I especially enjoy the calculation that they were selling 80 GH/S Avalon clones in FEB 2014 for BTC80+
(Wait, isn't that around going rate for a Avalon Batch 2 order?)

No wonder they decided to 'change' the price, delivery date and hash-speed. I guess the question now (if they have moved to 28 nm) is what they are going to do with the 10.000s of already ordered Avalon chips?

I just can't stomach a company changing their plans this way AFTER raising 1000s of BTC from an IPO. Sorry.

They had the old prices up there for a long time,

They had always stated they would be using the Avalon chips to mine for AMC (now combined with VMC, called AM)

Obviously pricing is always going to change based on what the future holds, asking a company not to change their price ever seems strange.

Companies should always evolves their plans around making more money for their shareholders, not staying on one path. Change is welcome if it is smart and so far every change that is occurring is a good one.

I'm not arguing anything here but the total disconnect shown in that a company that claims to have been involved in Bitcoin since 2010! Somehow thinking that they would be able to profitably sell 80 gh/s Avalon clones in 2014 for close to Mid-2013 retail prices.

[Bitcoinorama]

Original Miner hash rate, price an delivery date:

100 Fast-Hash-80's**    @ 80 GH/s each for a total of: 8 TH/s
Specifications: 110nm 282 MH/s chip 75 chips per board 4 boards per unit
Estimated retail value @ ~$6,000 each for a total of $600,000
(Estimated to be delivered August 2013)

100 Fast-Hash-80's**    @ 80 GH/s each for a total of: 8 TH/s
Specifications: 110nm 282 MH/s chip 75 chips per board 4 boards per unit
Estimated retail value @ ~$6,000 each for a total of $600,000
(Estimated to be delivered October 2013)

100 Fast-Hash-80's**    @ 80 GH/s each for a total of: 8 TH/s
Specifications: 110nm 282 MH/s chip 75 chips per board 4 boards per unit
Estimated retail value @ ~$6,000 each for a total of $600,000
(Estimated to be delivered December 2013)

100 Fast-Hash-80's**    @ 80 GH/s each for a total of: 8 TH/s
Specifications: 110nm 282 MH/s chip 75 chips per board 4 boards per unit
Estimated retail value @ ~$6,000 each for a total of $600,000
(Estimated to be delivered February 2014)

100 Fast-Hash-400's**    @ 400 GH/s each for a total of: 40 TH/s
Specifications: 45nm 6 GH/s chip 75 chips per board 1 board per unit
Estimated retail value @ ~$30,000 each for a total of $3,000,000
(Estimated to be delivered March 2014)

100 Fast-Hash-800's**    @ 800 GH/s each for a total of: 80 TH/s
Specifications: 45nm 6 GH/s chip 75 chips per board 2 boards per unit
Estimated retail value @ ~$60,000 each for a total of $6,000,000
(Estimated to be delivered May 2014)

100 Fast-Hash-1.2T's**    @ 1.2 TH/s each for a total of: 120 TH/s
Specifications: 28nm 9 GH/s chip 75 chips per board 1 board per unit
Estimated retail value @ ~$100,000 each for a total of $10,000,000
(Estimated to be delivered July 2014)

100 Fast-Hash-2.4T's**    @ 2.4 TH/s each for a total of: 240 TH/s
Specifications: 28nm 9 GH/s chip 75 chips per board 2 board per unit
Estimated retail value @ ~$200,000 each for a total of $20,000,000
(Estimated to be delivered September 2014)

100 Fast-Hash-4.8T's**    @ 4.8 TH/s each for a total of: 480 TH/s
Specifications: 28nm 9 GH/s chip 75 chips per board 4 board per unit
Estimated retail value @ ~$400,000 each for a total of $40,000,000
(Estimated to be delivered December 2014)


I especially enjoy the calculation that they were selling 80 GH/S Avalon clones in FEB 2014 for BTC80+
(Wait, isn't that around going rate for a Avalon Batch 2 order?)

No wonder they decided to 'change' the price, delivery date and hash-speed. I guess the question now (if they have moved to 28 nm) is what they are going to do with the 10.000s of already ordered Avalon chips?

I just can't stomach a company changing their plans this way AFTER raising 1000s of BTC from an IPO. Sorry.

They had the old prices up there for a long time,

They had always stated they would be using the Avalon chips to mine for AMC (now combined with VMC, called AM)

Obviously pricing is always going to change based on what the future holds, asking a company not to change their price ever seems strange.

Companies should always evolves their plans around making more money for their shareholders, not staying on one path. Change is welcome if it is smart and so far every change that is occurring is a good one.

I'm not arguing anything here but the total disconnect shown in that a company that claims to have been involved in Bitcoin since 2010! Somehow thinking that they would be able to profitably sell 80 gh/s Avalon clones in 2014 for close to Mid-2013 retail prices.

Agreed that shows a lack of comprehension of the environment and competition. Which makes me doubt them as a serious player with an in depth knowledge. This is not a dig, but an observation. I'm happy for them to step up and prove themselves otherwise. We need competition, specifically directed towards ASICminer.