Krater Miner OFFICIAL THREAD (WORKING Avalon Clone w/ videos!)

[Duffer1]

If you can deliver this week, you can charge 40 BTC, If you can't deliver for 10 weeks, then 25BTC

Pretty much this.  At Krater's prices you should just mine with them and forget you ever offered to consumers.  You're leaving zero profit on the table.  Why would anyone buy?  If you won't go below $5k USD for 90Gh/s then just stop offering your units for sale and mine with them yourselves, otherwise you're just ripping people off.  

[flyonwall]

... otherwise you're just ripping people off.  

You're using very strong words, my friend. This is DEFINITELY not ripping people off. The price is higher than others' yes, and that's really all you can say about it. If I offer you a 10 ounce bottle of water at $5 and you take it, did I just "rip you off"? Given all the information you have, you agreed to that price, so you can't say I ripped you off. Nobody has all the information at the time of any decision in order to make a perfect decision all the time. It could be that you paid $5 for that bottle of water because we are in a desert and paying for that bottle at that price meant more than that price for you.

These machines are money-making machines, but the money they make gets smaller in time. Therefore, the price has much to do with WHEN they can be delivered. Yes, you can order Bitfury machines or KNC machines, but you and I know that, all else being equal, an Avalon now is worth much more than a Bitfury in October. (Disclosure: I do have a Bitfury on order, just to hedge my bets.)

EDIT: It's precisely the opposite. Those who offer something for a very low price, to be delivered later, are the ones "ripping people off".

[alfabitcoin]

... otherwise you're just ripping people off.  

You're using very strong words, my friend. This is DEFINITELY not ripping people off. The price is higher than others' yes, and that's really all you can say about it. If I offer you a 10 ounce bottle of water at $5 and you take it, did I just "rip you off"? Given all the information you have, you agreed to that price, so you can't say I ripped you off. Nobody has all the information at the time of any decision in order to make a perfect decision all the time. It could be that you paid $5 for that bottle of water because we are in a desert and paying for that bottle at that price meant more than that price for you.

These machines are money-making machines, but the money they make gets smaller in time. Therefore, the price has much to do with WHEN they can be delivered. Yes, you can order Bitfury machines or KNC machines, but you and I know that, all else being equal, an Avalon now is worth much more than a Bitfury in October. (Disclosure: I do have a Bitfury on order, just to hedge my bets.)

EDIT: It's precisely the opposite. Those who offer something for a very low price, to be delivered later, are the ones "ripping people off".

This edit line sound hypocrytical IMO.

[flyonwall]

EDIT: It's precisely the opposite. Those who offer something for a very low price, to be delivered later, are the ones "ripping people off".

This edit line sound hypocrytical IMO.

How so? I don't understand.

[alfabitcoin]

EDIT: It's precisely the opposite. Those who offer something for a very low price, to be delivered later, are the ones "ripping people off".

This edit line sound hypocrytical IMO.

How so? I don't understand.

Well, you have explained very well how krater miner can not be called rip-off by using an argument off buyer's free choice and probable fast delivery. But in edit line you call rip off vendors who offer at lower price but to be delivered later. Same argument of free choice can be apply there as well, no need to call those rip off, dont you think?

[Duffer1]

... otherwise you're just ripping people off.  

You're using very strong words, my friend. This is DEFINITELY not ripping people off. The price is higher than others' yes, and that's really all you can say about it.

I must disagree.  Their price isn't just higher than their competition, it's ludicrously higher than their competition.  And they won't even ship until after their competition has.  

-Megabigpower (Bitfury) 400 Gh/s, $8000 usd October shipping.  
-KNC 400Gh/s, $7000usd SEPTEMBER shipping.
-VMC 256Gh/s, $4000usd November shipping.
-Krater 60 - 90 Gh/s, $12,500 USD (125B).  Nov? December shipping.

Those who offer something for a very low price, to be delivered later, are the ones "ripping people off".

But Krater won't even ship until after their competition has.  How is that not a ripoff?  I know they want to make money as a business, but I think they're confused as to what kind of business they should be.  

If they want to price their hardware so high that their customers will have no hope of ever getting their investment back then they should just not sell that hardware and mine with it instead.  If they want to be a legit manufacturer, and distributor, of custom cryptocurrency hardware in the U.S. then they should price competitively.  

Krater get back to us when you make up your minds.  You can cash out on Bitcoin mining and forget selling your ASICs, but remember Bitcoin is just the start.  There's LTC, and a dozen other coins jockying for popularity.  Those coins will need hardware to mine them.  Do you want to provide it?

[kendog77]

... otherwise you're just ripping people off.  

You're using very strong words, my friend. This is DEFINITELY not ripping people off. The price is higher than others' yes, and that's really all you can say about it.

I must disagree.  Their price isn't just higher than their competition, it's ludicrously higher than their competition.  And they won't even ship until after their competition has.  

-Megabigpower (Bitfury) 400 Gh/s, $8000 usd October shipping.  
-KNC 400Gh/s, $7000usd SEPTEMBER shipping.
-VMC 256Gh/s, $4000usd November shipping.
-Krater 60 - 90 Gh/s, $12,500 USD (125B).  Nov? December shipping.

Those who offer something for a very low price, to be delivered later, are the ones "ripping people off".

But Krater won't even ship until after their competition has.  How is that not a ripoff?  I know they want to make money as a business, but I think they're confused as to what kind of business they should be.  

If they want to price their hardware so high that their customers will have no hope of ever getting their investment back then they should just not sell that hardware and mine with it instead.  If they want to be a legit manufacturer, and distributor, of custom cryptocurrency hardware in the U.S. then they should price competitively.  

Krater get back to us when you make up your minds.  You can cash out on Bitcoin mining and forget selling your ASICs, but remember Bitcoin is just the start.  There's LTC, and a dozen other coins jockying for popularity.  Those coins will need hardware to mine them.  Do you want to provide it?

According to their website, they ordered 10k Avalon chips on May 2nd, which means they have a good chance to receive the chips in July. I'm really not sure how you made the jump from receiving chips in late July / early August to delivering in November or December, but it's a pretty absurd jump to make.

They are still expensive, but with a May 2nd Avalon chip order I think they will deliver in August unless the Avalon chips get delayed.

[flyonwall]

EDIT: It's precisely the opposite. Those who offer something for a very low price, to be delivered later, are the ones "ripping people off".

This edit line sound hypocrytical IMO.

How so? I don't understand.

Well, you have explained very well how krater miner can not be called rip-off by using an argument off buyer's free choice and probable fast delivery. But in edit line you call rip off vendors who offer at lower price but to be delivered later. Same argument of free choice can be apply there as well, no need to call those rip off, dont you think?

The important word in the edit is "later". There was a date promised, for example, when BFL accepted orders last year. People placed orders with that promise in mind. The price is a function of that date, so if the manufacturer delivers months off from that date, don't you think that's a rip-off? A rip-off is defined as a misrepresentation. In most businesses and especially in this business, if a manufacturer can't deliver on promised dates, he is selling mostly nothing.

[alfabitcoin]

EDIT: It's precisely the opposite. Those who offer something for a very low price, to be delivered later, are the ones "ripping people off".

This edit line sound hypocrytical IMO.

How so? I don't understand.

Well, you have explained very well how krater miner can not be called rip-off by using an argument off buyer's free choice and probable fast delivery. But in edit line you call rip off vendors who offer at lower price but to be delivered later. Same argument of free choice can be apply there as well, no need to call those rip off, dont you think?

The important word in the edit is "later". There was a date promised, for example, when BFL accepted orders last year. People placed orders with that promise in mind. The price is a function of that date, so if the manufacturer delivers months off from that date, don't you think that's a rip-off? A rip-off is defined as a misrepresentation. In most businesses and especially in this business, if a manufacturer can't deliver on promised dates, he is selling mostly nothing.

I agree with you if they don't meet thir delivery date, but you can not call them ripp-offs just if they offer at lower price in later  delivery date  Its just not polite to call such things ripp-offs just because only time will tell and all that depend on buyer due diligence. So I just wanted to point out that you have defended krater prices with valid argument and then aplied same logic to call ripp-off vendors who sell with opposite method and only that is what I think its a bit hypocrit of you, nothing else. If they meet their deadlines then they are ok.

[tempestb]

I think lecturing them on their prices is complete and I think they've heard it from every angle.  It's simply going to be what the market decides they are worth.  If they have them for sale and nobody buys them, they'll have to either (A) Lower their prices until they have enough buyers to absorb their inventory or (B) Mine with the units themselves.  There isn't anything else to say about it.  

[Duffer1]

According to their website, they ordered 10k Avalon chips on May 2nd, which means they have a good chance to receive the chips in July. I'm really not sure how you made the jump from receiving chips in late July / early August to delivering in November or December, but it's a pretty absurd jump to make.

They are still expensive, but with a May 2nd Avalon chip order I think they will deliver in August unless the Avalon chips get delayed.

You're right about the ship dates.  Some of Krater's competitors have shipped, but some are in the same boat as them.

Hypothetical time.  Even if Krater had a machine this very second, at your door (lets assume you tweak it to the max 90Gh/s), would you pay $12,500 for it if you could start mining with it today?  Would you pay $12,500 usd for it in August, or September, or October?

[DPoS]

And they obviously priced it in BTC with the $$$ value in mind..  so now they are in a muck with BTC back to $90-100 to throw their price to the moon again

Atleast when Avalon did it on batch 3 they were going by how many btc you would mine, etc..  they just ended up dropping the ball big time on delivery which made that situation a joke in the end

look for another 'price drop' by Krater from this runup

[pixl8tr]

I see they adjusted the prices to 90 BTC.

[Xialla]

lol, another discount, so original price was 200, same day later 125 and today (after 3 days) 90.) ohh, is is so funny watching, how guys from Krater just want to earn thousands of dollars on one device, but hit the wall on forum in full speed.)

[dbasql]

I think lecturing them on their prices is complete and I think they've heard it from every angle.  It's simply going to be what the market decides they are worth.  If they have them for sale and nobody buys them, they'll have to either (A) Lower their prices until they have enough buyers to absorb their inventory or (B) Mine with the units themselves.  There isn't anything else to say about it.  

This ^^

Tough crowd here, may have been prudent to wait a bit on the pricing.
Any way good to see a project like this. I hope it works out well.

[pikeadz]

Guys, it is a CLONE.  It is not an Avalon, it is an untested imitation with no credibility yet.  It should be LESS expensive than the real deal.  And that is the case in every other industry.  Once you get your acts together and come up with a sane price (MAYBE 65 BTC and go down from there), you might find that you start getting some orders.  Until then, you are just trying to price gouge people who know better.

[dxtwo]

[Duffer1]

Lol Dx if you have any popcorn left head over to the scam forums for the scotaloo/tradefortress drama.

[pixl8tr]

I wish you great success, since you are located just up the road from me in Ohio. I would love to purchase from you. However, since I don't have a lot of BTC I have to fund with USD.  At $10 a Gh/s Just a bit too rich for me considering a lot of cheaper ASIC  alternatives. ;-(

[greek_hephaestus]

  I'm curius. How many orders have already?