U.S. bank closing all of my deposit accounts because of bitcoins

[suryc]

All of the major banks have it in there terms of service that they can close your account whenever they want and all they have to do is give you a two week notice.
Anytime they see activity that they don't like, for whatever reason, they send out these notices and close accounts. Usually it is not even a person making the decision, but some risk management software has flagged your account for whatever reason.

[Anon136]

Moving to a different bank isn't an easy task.

they would just be closing your accounts, that wouldn't force you to refinance your mortgage

[Inedible]

I don't think there's any point in fighting this as they don't have to provide you service but you can always tell them that buying Bitcoin isn't illegal nor is it against their ToS (unless it says you can't do that which I highly doubt).

[btctraderr]

The US government is definitely the most hostile regime to bitcoin, why else would banks be scared to have your service and earn money off your wire transfers. Glad I don't live there. @OP, best look around for a new bank, goodluck.

[SeanArce]

Long live Bitcoin and crypto

[notme]

Banks fear the government more than the lust for extra money.  The make enough money as it is without risking invoking the wrath of the USG.

Banks fear the government and aren't greedy?  We're talking about the US here.

Yes, yes we are.

They are certainly greedy, but they do fear the government.  They will take 0% loans from the FED for speculative profits over wire transfer fees that mostly go to other banks any day, especially if there is a (perceived or real) regulatory threat from allowing the activity to continue.

[freedomno1]

Interesting I would be irritated as well go complain to the board

[Mjbmonetarymetals]

WAR ON BITCOIN WAR ON BITCOIN ! ! , it's this hysterical over excited posting that seems to be a part of every thread which is simply efforts to manipulate pricing.

In December last year I had my yorkshire bank accounts frozen after £15,000 of trading of Bitcoin this was lots of bank transfers in and out of my private account, the surge of business  activity into a private bank account had caused the freeze not Bitcoin. They were happy for me to continue buying/selling bitcoin as long as I opened a business account within a month. In the end I opened the business account with Barclays who didn't have a problem with me buying and selling Bitcoin either.

[Lethn]

You don't live in America, that's why you think everyones just being hysterical, I'm in the UK but I know full well just how psychotic and paranoid the U.S government is, that said, I wouldn't be surprised to see the UK government taking steps as well soon enough, they're just more subtle about it.

[bronco]

He was moving thousands of dollars through is personal accounts to do arbitrage across exchanges.  You should at least talk to your branch manager before starting this kind of activity.

I opened brand new business account to do arbitrage. They closing it after 2 wires $20000 total.

[bronco]

If you do business on localbitcoins.com, it is nice to have a large number of branches, since people across the U.S. for instance can pretty much deposit cash in a local branch that is U.S. Bank for example.

to sell bitcoins legally you need some sort of license, because even if you sell it it is considered money transmitting service.

[CurbsideProphet]

This sounds wholly inaccurate.   It is perfectly legal to buy or sell bitcoins using a bank account.  Coinbase does tends of thousands of transactions every day.

Can you post the letter from the bank?

Must be more involved here.

He was moving thousands of dollars through is personal accounts to do arbitrage across exchanges.  You should at least talk to your branch manager before starting this kind of activity.

Really.  Because using a bank as a bank is a bad thing.  But maybe he was using too many free wire transfers..... wait.... wire transfers are not free....

Ok.  I get it.  They were making too much money on him and wanted to stop. 

I could imagine if he was constantly moving money around for free, but not for fees.

This is the way it works (in the US).  If he were coming in and making a lot of cash deposits, which are not his usual activity, the teller could file a SAR (suspicious activity report).  Even if it wasn't cash, if it was a negotiable instrument like a wire or money order, same thing.  The SAR then goes to the bank's BSA/AML compliance department where they determine whether or not to file the SAR.  It doesn't need to be a teller, it could really be anyone, bank manager, compliance themselves, or someone in the bank's BSA division.  This doesn't mean he's doing anything wrong, just that the activity to them looks suspicious and needs to be examined further.  If these steps are not taken, the bank can be fined.

In this case, what's likely happened is they did a risk/reward determination.  Is this one person's business worth possibly getting into trouble for.  They determined it wasn't and said, "we no longer want your business, here's your money back."  They might have very conservative AML laws compared to other banks, who knows.  If they had frozen his funds that would be a whole different matter because then they're saying something illegal has occurred but that isn't the case.  They just did a CYA move and said go find somebody else.

It's not about making money, it's about operating under crazy regulation that will likely only get worse as time goes on.

[Stephen Gornick]

I couldn't care less that my credit union doesn't have any branches outside of my state.  They refund all ATM fees anyway.

Many credit unions participate in a network so you could use most any other credit union's ATM as well.  I had a credit union that used the Co-Op network so was near a fee-free ATM nearly all the time.  I don't now if IAFCU gives refunds for ATM fees, but I see their network, CU24, is huge -- about a dozen ATMs within a two mile radius of where I am right now.

They say it against their rules.

I doubt they block everyone transferring to Mt. Gox, BITSTAMP, etc., so they probably considered the Pareto principle where possibly 80% of the dollars being sent are from just 20% of the customers and to shut those down.  Perhaps their highly paid compliance people do this so that they can argue why their salaries and bonuses are justified (make some arbitrary rule that is easy to enforce, enforce it, and then pat yourself on the back for a job well done even though there was no valid reason for it ... buying bitcoins isn't a crime.)

[west17m]

It was probably due to the extra paperwork they were having to do because of the amount of funds you were moving.  Banks and currency exchangers are subject to reporting to the FINCEN.  Here's a pdf the FINCEN issues to banks for whose accounts they need to report:

www.fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidance/pdf/bsa_quickrefguide.pdf

[BittBurger]

He was moving thousands of dollars through is personal accounts to do arbitrage across exchanges.  You should at least talk to your branch manager before starting this kind of activity.

Agreed.  Banks have to pay for all your transactions, and I doubt they're going to be willing to let you play with hundreds and thousands of deposits and withdrawals, using their system to do so.  that costs them money.  I understand why they closed it down, and it has nothing to do with some "war on bitcoin".  Banks just dont want to pay the fees.   They got pissed off at me because i was transferring money in and out of a savings account too much last month.  And all i was doing was transferring to my other accounts. 

[MagicBit15]

I am sorry but I have never heard of this before. I have of freezing but not just random closing.

Please post letter or it didn't happen, Thanks! 

[lucasjkr]

Banks suck!

I do deal with banks a LOT as part of my 9-5

I'd guess what freaked them out is your account was a personal account with ordinary "personal" type activity in it; all of a sudden a large-ish wire hit your account, possibly from overseas (ie mt gox, btc-e), and then they saw the money zip back out to another source (I'd guess btce). Do that a few more times (sell bitcoins on gox, transfer proceeds to you bank, transfer dollars to btce, buy bitcoins, transfer to gox, sell, transfer to your bank) and they're just seeing a lot of money moving around from basically unknown sources, etc. it'll send up lots of red flags. And unless you're a big customer, they don't like red flags. I almost guess their communication to you didn't mention bitcoin.

My only guess, is next time form a business, even a sole proprietorship, and explain what you'll be doing when you open the account. Don't necessarily need to mention bitcoins, just something like overseas securities trading, just so the bank is aware of the funds movements you account will likely see.

[notme]

I am sorry but I have never heard of this before. I have of freezing but not just random closing.

Please post letter or it didn't happen, Thanks! 

I'm sorry reading is hard for you.  OP posted it on the first page.

here is what i got. it doesn say much. So when i called bank asking what rules i broke they told I was buying bitcoins . I didnt tell bank i was using it to buy bitcoins just ecurrencies. Somehow they find out
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/106526372/letter.jpg

What sorts of transactions were you doing related to bitcoins?

all i was doing is arbitrage. buying in one place sell them in other

[lucasjkr]

Get a new bank, problem solved.

well, i'm freaking out cause there is no guarantee other bank will not do the same. I'll give wells fargo try. Spoke to them they dont mind bitcoins.

http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/2013/07/12/u-s-bank-is-closing-deposit-accounts-that-is-affiliated-with-bitcoin-buys-or-sells/

The letter doesn't mention bitcoin.  Did they tell you that part in some other communication?

when i called them to find out what the deal is they say cause i was buying bitcoins. I never told bank i will be using wires to buy bitcoins. I told them i will be buying e-currencies. I believe bitstamp account where i was wiring money to is flagged or something

If you just mention "bitcoin" or "e currencies" or other abstract terms like that, most bankers won't have s clue what you're talking about and will just say yes. Explain lots of wires in and out, that more accurately describes what the bank will be dealing with.

[papaminer]

it would be epic if you print a bitcoin symbol in a big white t-shirt and go roam around big banks....