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Author Topic: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!  (Read 3145 times)
AgentME
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July 13, 2013, 05:25:54 AM
Last edit: July 13, 2013, 06:28:33 AM by AgentME
 #41

Vlad has good intentions, but his stubborness to getting his 1% of everything mined is going to be his downfall, provided his other protocols aren't completely retarded and actually live up to the hype he's setting for them.

I like the guy, but I think he will be the thing that ruins it if he keeps getting so upset when people tell him they don't want to be forced to give him 1% of the total coins, as well as the 10% "let's centralize a currency that is fundamentally designed to be decentralized" idea
As you say, even if we ignore those parts, what are we left with? The "VGB protocol" (which a non-programmer thought up?) that magically identifies small miners and rewards them a relatively bigger share. Until a very good explanation comes forth, he might as well say "magic". "MagicCoin" might be a catchy name.

Exactly. I'm on your side here.

To be fair though, he does say he works in economics and I would rather an economist come up with a new idea than a programmer when it comes to distribution, but I agree with you, so far everything is looking not so great
I do think Bitcoin/derivatives could use a bit more economic attention toward figuring out what the optimal block reward values and progression are, whether a maximum cap is a good idea, etc. But the idea of being able to securely identify small miners (as opposed to powerful miners trying to look like many) is much further on the programming / network security side. (And I don't think his few stated ideas on the economic side are that great. Making a currency that's focused all on benefiting the money printers is a huge mis-step! Holy shit, how does this not ring more alarm bells to people?)

*edited to bold for emphasis
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Even in the event that an attacker gains more than 50% of the network's computational power, only transactions sent by the attacker could be reversed or double-spent. The network would not be destroyed.
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July 13, 2013, 05:29:01 AM
 #42

OK Im interested in this coin. Lets see how it does and Ill throw some hash at your Nug.
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July 13, 2013, 05:31:25 AM
 #43

OK Im interested in this coin. Lets see how it does and Ill throw some hash at your Nug.
Honest question, assuming you aren't a sockpuppet of OP or something: What sounds interesting about this at all? Half of what he described is magic and the other half of what he described is "I get 11% of all coins".
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July 13, 2013, 05:33:32 AM
 #44

Vlad has good intentions, but his stubborness to getting his 1% of everything mined is going to be his downfall, provided his other protocols aren't completely retarded and actually live up to the hype he's setting for them.

I like the guy, but I think he will be the thing that ruins it if he keeps getting so upset when people tell him they don't want to be forced to give him 1% of the total coins, as well as the 10% "let's centralize a currency that is fundamentally designed to be decentralized" idea
As you say, even if we ignore those parts, what are we left with? The "VGB protocol" (which a non-programmer thought up?) that magically identifies small miners and rewards them a relatively bigger share. Until a very good explanation comes forth, he might as well say "magic". "MagicCoin" might be a catchy name.

Exactly. I'm on your side here.

To be fair though, he does say he works in economics and I would rather an economist come up with a new idea than a programmer when it comes to distribution, but I agree with you, so far everything is looking not so great
I do think Bitcoin/derivatives could use a bit more economic attention toward figuring out what the optimal block reward values and progression are, whether a maximum cap is a good idea, etc. But the idea of being able to securely identify small miners (as opposed to powerful miners trying to look like many) is much further on the programming / network security side. (And I don't think his few stated ideas on the economic side are that great. Making a currency that's focused all on benefiting the money printers is a huge mis-step! Holy shit, how does this not ring more alarm bells to people?)

I'm not sure why people aren't concerned. At the same time, I'm not quite convinced that Vlad is going in the right direction at all. We will see what his big hyped idea is, but it seems as if he is completely missing the point of what a cryptocurrency does and why things are set up the way they are. It just sounds like a money grab at this point which is unfortunate because I believe he is sincere in wanting to help the smaller miners but this is just so far off that its basically pointless

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July 13, 2013, 06:22:16 AM
 #45

OK Im interested in this coin. Lets see how it does and Ill throw some hash at your Nug.
Honest question, assuming you aren't a sockpuppet of OP or something: What sounds interesting about this at all? Half of what he described is magic and the other half of what he described is "I get 11% of all coins".

I think OP is sincere, here. I also think that he just doesn't understand how things work he in crypto-coin land, where every dev is expected to be amazingly selfless and code just for the reward of releasing something useful to the community. I mean, Satoshi didn't have to pre-mine, there wasn't a mob of extremely efficient hash power all ready to rape any new coins and force the little guy out. That's how Satoshi got a lot of Bitcoins, and that's how he made money. A developer today can't expect to get very much of his own currency anymore, so even if it goes to the moon, the dev makes almost nothing.

I think he means well, in the same sense the kid I knew in gradeschool meant well who had this big idea for an MMORPG that totally wasn't just a World of Warcraft clone and was better in every possible way but needed help programming it and was adamant he got a cut and that I didn't steal his idea so he couldn't explain it to me. That's the idea here too. It's a mixture of secrecy and looking for a cut on an idea that is so less than feasible.
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July 13, 2013, 06:22:49 AM
 #46

Yeah I believe he is not the type that is looking to pump and dump.  As for truly wanting to help the little guy, that I am not 100% on yet, as he has been trying all kinds of ideas which he thinks might draw a lot of people.  Let's not forget his first few ideas, such as the Catholic Coin, which he himself said he wanted as he believed it would draw in a lot of Catholic miners to come mine for him.  He is trying to promote the coin as the "Miner's" coin, yet almost every coin the miners get 100% of the coins.  So how are we supposed to see getting less as a benefit to miners everywhere.  I think he means well with his idea of handing out bonuses to the little guys, but since he has already shown a lack of even the most basic concepts, I don't think he realises how easy it would be for people to "trick" the system into giving them multiple bonuses.  I still want to hear his idea of how his VGB protocol will automatically filter things like this out. 

I do like the guy though.  But I have no idea why.

Check out AC3  @ https://ac3.io/
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July 13, 2013, 06:54:25 AM
 #47

Yeah I believe he is not the type that is looking to pump and dump.  As for truly wanting to help the little guy, that I am not 100% on yet, as he has been trying all kinds of ideas which he thinks might draw a lot of people.  Let's not forget his first few ideas, such as the Catholic Coin, which he himself said he wanted as he believed it would draw in a lot of Catholic miners to come mine for him.  He is trying to promote the coin as the "Miner's" coin, yet almost every coin the miners get 100% of the coins.  So how are we supposed to see getting less as a benefit to miners everywhere.  I think he means well with his idea of handing out bonuses to the little guys, but since he has already shown a lack of even the most basic concepts, I don't think he realises how easy it would be for people to "trick" the system into giving them multiple bonuses.  I still want to hear his idea of how his VGB protocol will automatically filter things like this out.  

I do like the guy though.  But I have no idea why.

I'm willing to bet he is just one of the small fish miners he wants to help, which is fine, but why should we have to help support small miners that don't want to invest their own money into rigs to compete with those of us that have tens of thousands of dollars invested? I see no point in paying for my equipment and electricity if I have to share it with other people automatically. I don't mind voluntarily donating to a pool I'm using. However, when a cut is automatically taken out of EVERY block just to be handed out to people who don't want to risk their own money buying proper equipment, as well as a cut going to the person who hired someone to write code for him...that I have a problem with. Unless you want to pay 11% of my electricity and GPU costs, I see no reason to give you 11% of my mining rewards.

That is just the tip of the iceberg, though. The centralized, controlled by one person wallet that is given to these small miners is a whole different (and substantially the bigger of the two) issue in itself

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July 13, 2013, 07:07:59 AM
 #48

Help me with just the idea of how to distribute this 10% to the miners in a fair way

Redistributive coins have never worked in RL or in crypto. I'd like to say "nice idea, thanks for trying", but it's not.
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July 13, 2013, 07:21:21 AM
 #49

Yeah I believe he is not the type that is looking to pump and dump.  As for truly wanting to help the little guy, that I am not 100% on yet, as he has been trying all kinds of ideas which he thinks might draw a lot of people.  Let's not forget his first few ideas, such as the Catholic Coin, which he himself said he wanted as he believed it would draw in a lot of Catholic miners to come mine for him.  He is trying to promote the coin as the "Miner's" coin, yet almost every coin the miners get 100% of the coins.  So how are we supposed to see getting less as a benefit to miners everywhere.  I think he means well with his idea of handing out bonuses to the little guys, but since he has already shown a lack of even the most basic concepts, I don't think he realises how easy it would be for people to "trick" the system into giving them multiple bonuses.  I still want to hear his idea of how his VGB protocol will automatically filter things like this out.  

I do like the guy though.  But I have no idea why.

I'm willing to bet he is just one of the small fish miners he wants to help, which is fine, but why should we have to help support small miners that don't want to invest their own money into rigs to compete with those of us that have tens of thousands of dollars invested? I see no point in paying for my equipment and electricity if I have to share it with other people automatically. I don't mind voluntarily donating to a pool I'm using. However, when a cut is automatically taken out of EVERY block just to be handed out to people who don't want to risk their own money buying proper equipment, as well as a cut going to the person who hired someone to write code for him...that I have a problem with. Unless you want to pay 11% of my electricity and GPU costs, I see no reason to give you 11% of my mining rewards.

That is just the tip of the iceberg, though. The centralized, controlled by one person wallet that is given to these small miners is a whole different (and substantially the bigger of the two) issue in itself

Yeah, cause those big GPU farms totally don't make a gazillion dollars in profit. You act like everyone has tens of thousands of dollars to invest into mining, and they just choose not to.

Why are the smaller miners owed more?

Bitcoin mining works by compensating miners for their computations that go toward securing the blockchain. It's not supposed to be a socialist "everyone gets money!" welfare system. Why should that compensation be anything but directly proportional to the work contributed? (Not to mention the complete infeasibility of any other scheme.)
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July 13, 2013, 07:21:28 AM
 #50

Yeah I believe he is not the type that is looking to pump and dump.  As for truly wanting to help the little guy, that I am not 100% on yet, as he has been trying all kinds of ideas which he thinks might draw a lot of people.  Let's not forget his first few ideas, such as the Catholic Coin, which he himself said he wanted as he believed it would draw in a lot of Catholic miners to come mine for him.  He is trying to promote the coin as the "Miner's" coin, yet almost every coin the miners get 100% of the coins.  So how are we supposed to see getting less as a benefit to miners everywhere.  I think he means well with his idea of handing out bonuses to the little guys, but since he has already shown a lack of even the most basic concepts, I don't think he realises how easy it would be for people to "trick" the system into giving them multiple bonuses.  I still want to hear his idea of how his VGB protocol will automatically filter things like this out.  

I do like the guy though.  But I have no idea why.

I'm willing to bet he is just one of the small fish miners he wants to help, which is fine, but why should we have to help support small miners that don't want to invest their own money into rigs to compete with those of us that have tens of thousands of dollars invested? I see no point in paying for my equipment and electricity if I have to share it with other people automatically. I don't mind voluntarily donating to a pool I'm using. However, when a cut is automatically taken out of EVERY block just to be handed out to people who don't want to risk their own money buying proper equipment, as well as a cut going to the person who hired someone to write code for him...that I have a problem with. Unless you want to pay 11% of my electricity and GPU costs, I see no reason to give you 11% of my mining rewards.

That is just the tip of the iceberg, though. The centralized, controlled by one person wallet that is given to these small miners is a whole different (and substantially the bigger of the two) issue in itself

Yeah, cause those big GPU farms totally don't make a gazillion dollars in profit. You act like everyone has tens of thousands of dollars to invest into mining, and they just choose not to.

Not to be rude, but that's not my problem. I shouldn't have to pay 11% to them regardless of their reasons. My point is that people like me who DO have tens of thousands in equipment are going to avoid this like the plague. May as well make it CPU mining only because anyone with any real hashpower isn't going to give 11% away for free

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July 13, 2013, 07:22:21 AM
 #51

Might as well just call it CommunismCoin at that point

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July 13, 2013, 07:27:08 AM
 #52

Yeah, cause those big GPU farms totally don't make a gazillion dollars in profit. You act like everyone has tens of thousands of dollars to invest into mining, and they just choose not to.

The big GPU farms all fight each other for less coins per person than the few people CPU mining a coin politely together, none of them trying to rape the thing with a GPU, each get of some coin (like Tenebrix, or Fairbrix, or...) they hope the people with the big GPU farms won't remember or care about for a year or so like happened with BBQcoin...

The people who let one CPU core quietly mine BBQcoin for a year after some big GPU farm bully claimed to have killed it probably made more money that year per CPU core than they would have per GPU, if they had any GPUs, on some coin like Litecoin that all the big GPU people fight for crumbs of.

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July 13, 2013, 07:28:03 AM
 #53

Why are the smaller miners owed more?

Bitcoin mining works by compensating miners for their computations that go toward securing the blockchain. It's not supposed to be a socialist "everyone gets money!" welfare system. Why should that compensation be anything but directly proportional to the work contributed? (Not to mention the complete infeasibility of any other scheme.)

They aren't owed more. I just hate the way the rich always get richer, and the poor get poorer.

I don't think the currency is a feasible place to address that.
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July 13, 2013, 07:42:41 AM
 #54

Yeah I believe he is not the type that is looking to pump and dump.  As for truly wanting to help the little guy, that I am not 100% on yet, as he has been trying all kinds of ideas which he thinks might draw a lot of people.  Let's not forget his first few ideas, such as the Catholic Coin, which he himself said he wanted as he believed it would draw in a lot of Catholic miners to come mine for him.  He is trying to promote the coin as the "Miner's" coin, yet almost every coin the miners get 100% of the coins.  So how are we supposed to see getting less as a benefit to miners everywhere.  I think he means well with his idea of handing out bonuses to the little guys, but since he has already shown a lack of even the most basic concepts, I don't think he realises how easy it would be for people to "trick" the system into giving them multiple bonuses.  I still want to hear his idea of how his VGB protocol will automatically filter things like this out.  

I do like the guy though.  But I have no idea why.

I'm willing to bet he is just one of the small fish miners he wants to help, which is fine, but why should we have to help support small miners that don't want to invest their own money into rigs to compete with those of us that have tens of thousands of dollars invested? I see no point in paying for my equipment and electricity if I have to share it with other people automatically. I don't mind voluntarily donating to a pool I'm using. However, when a cut is automatically taken out of EVERY block just to be handed out to people who don't want to risk their own money buying proper equipment, as well as a cut going to the person who hired someone to write code for him...that I have a problem with. Unless you want to pay 11% of my electricity and GPU costs, I see no reason to give you 11% of my mining rewards.

That is just the tip of the iceberg, though. The centralized, controlled by one person wallet that is given to these small miners is a whole different (and substantially the bigger of the two) issue in itself

Yeah, cause those big GPU farms totally don't make a gazillion dollars in profit. You act like everyone has tens of thousands of dollars to invest into mining, and they just choose not to.

Why are the smaller miners owed more?

Bitcoin mining works by compensating miners for their computations that go toward securing the blockchain. It's not supposed to be a socialist "everyone gets money!" welfare system. Why should that compensation be anything but directly proportional to the work contributed? (Not to mention the complete infeasibility of any other scheme.)

Now that I think about it, I have an answer. The compensation shouldn't be directly proportional to the work contributed because the work isn't the only thing that matters. Would you feel safe using Bitcoin if there was only one miner? No? Even if he had a gazillion TH/s?

Then it would be centralized with one person controlling all new coins. Your point was a bad one just let it go. Seriously how hard is this to understand...?

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July 13, 2013, 07:43:14 AM
 #55

Why are the smaller miners owed more?

Bitcoin mining works by compensating miners for their computations that go toward securing the blockchain. It's not supposed to be a socialist "everyone gets money!" welfare system. Why should that compensation be anything but directly proportional to the work contributed? (Not to mention the complete infeasibility of any other scheme.)

Now that I think about it, I have an answer. The compensation shouldn't be directly proportional to the work contributed because the work isn't the only thing that matters. Would you feel safe using Bitcoin if there was only one miner? No? Even if he had a gazillion TH/s?

Spreading the block rewards wouldn't address the issue that a single miner is in control of the network and can more than easily do a 51%-style attack.
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July 13, 2013, 07:47:17 AM
 #56

Why are the smaller miners owed more?

Bitcoin mining works by compensating miners for their computations that go toward securing the blockchain. It's not supposed to be a socialist "everyone gets money!" welfare system. Why should that compensation be anything but directly proportional to the work contributed? (Not to mention the complete infeasibility of any other scheme.)

Now that I think about it, I have an answer. The compensation shouldn't be directly proportional to the work contributed because the work isn't the only thing that matters. Would you feel safe using Bitcoin if there was only one miner? No? Even if he had a gazillion TH/s?

Spreading the block rewards wouldn't address the issue that a single miner is in control of the network and can more than easily do a 51%-style attack.
I think our words are falling on deaf ears my friend. Either that or there is a SEVERE lack of understanding the point of these coins or how they work...

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July 13, 2013, 07:48:43 AM
 #57

are you guys just messing with us or do you seriously not understand these issues...? we would be happy to explain the problems but it seems like you guys just don't care to hear the truth

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July 13, 2013, 07:50:53 AM
 #58


Why are the smaller miners owed more?

Bitcoin mining works by compensating miners for their computations that go toward securing the blockchain. It's not supposed to be a socialist "everyone gets money!" welfare system. Why should that compensation be anything but directly proportional to the work contributed? (Not to mention the complete infeasibility of any other scheme.)

Well, a coin *could* be designed were the contribution of each individual could be equal to the blockchain (or whatever other mechanism) security.
In that case, having tons of hardware would not be helpful and thus you would not have "big" and "small" miners. Of course it could not be a hashcash derivative ...
How to design such a coin is hard, it could even be impossible (bizantine generals problem was bypassed by bitcoin in an elegant yet power hungry way using hashcash).

On the other hand, the OP speaks of mining, previously tried to make some money by buying / selling back some crappy domain names, ran some polls with equally crappy ideas ... so he probably is in no way bringing real new and innovative ideas to the cause.
Also putting a 1% tax for himself on the money supply ... lol, much worst than a premine ! (but at least not hard for some motivated group to hard-fork and get rid of it)

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July 13, 2013, 07:57:00 AM
 #59


Why are the smaller miners owed more?

Bitcoin mining works by compensating miners for their computations that go toward securing the blockchain. It's not supposed to be a socialist "everyone gets money!" welfare system. Why should that compensation be anything but directly proportional to the work contributed? (Not to mention the complete infeasibility of any other scheme.)

Well, a coin *could* be designed were the contribution of each individual could be equal to the blockchain (or whatever other mechanism) security.
In that case, having tons of hardware would not be helpful and thus you would not have "big" and "small" miners. Of course it could not be a hashcash derivative ...
How to design such a coin is hard, it could even be impossible (bizantine generals problem was bypassed by bitcoin in an elegant yet power hungry way using hashcash).

On the other hand, the OP speaks of mining, previously tried to make some money by buying / selling back some crappy domain names, ran some polls with equally crappy ideas ... so he probably is in no way bringing real new and innovative ideas to the cause.
Also putting a 1% tax for himself on the money supply ... lol, much worst than a premine ! (but at least not hard for some motivated group to hard-fork and get rid of it)

Finally someone who gets it. The hard fork idea is a good one. I like this guy but I think a few of us should get together and eliminate his tax should this go live. Not to screw the guy but to prove a point not to fuck with the people who are trying to support you. I would be willing to throw all my hashes at it just to get the point across

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July 13, 2013, 08:54:50 AM
 #60

You keep begging third party devs( mainly junk coin developers) to build your coin for you,

what is the realistic longevity for this coin?

Hire them on full time or just contract basis for each update?

Which developer did you end up going with?



Begging?

When you pay someone to do something it's not begging.

When you go to a restaurant and order a steak and then pay for it would you like it if some guy outside told people you were in there begging for food?  Hardly!

These are not junk developers.  They have experience launching other coins and they're actually the most expensive here.  I could have gone with the cheaper guys but I thought I'd get more from going with someone with integrity and experience.

The longevity depends on the adoption rate and if people like what the coin offers.  I'm looking at it long term, for years to come of the govt allows it that long.

Please don't tell me it was Hazard... As I'm sure it was you who messaged him a few days back.
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