Network Protection statement from KNCMiner

[yeemartin]

This statement is meaningless.

People only care if KNC can keep their word to start shipping in September.

but i think they are little crazy, 28nm technology chips use for only 3 months production and will then be superseded by the 2nd gen chips ? I guess the 2nd gen KNC chip will be 20nm? no 20nm is not exotic enough, 14nm. KNC 2nd gen must be 14nm!

[dogie]

This also smells like limited supply troubles.

^ This also smells like dog poo... the supply should be limited because you can't crank out gazilions of chips all competing for the same daily 3,600 pool of bitcoins, it makes no sense. It also would make sense to take a wait and see approach and release Gen 2 when the buyers of Gen 1 actually have the funds to buy Gen 2 hardware.

I have to agree with Bitcoionorama, density is at an all time high around here, it seems.

That logic only applies when accompanied by illusion of grandeur.

[Paladin69]

This is hilarious.

"We would like to state that If any of our competitors continues to add large amounts of hashing power to the network during December, January or February. We will continue to release our devices as competitively priced as we can to protect our customers share of the network."

How will reacting with the release of MORE mining devices protect their customers?

If they want to take a breather to design and manufacture their next gen they can just say so.

The statement does seem a bit like damage control...for what reason, I'm not sure.

[erk]

This statement is meaningless.

People only care if KNC can keep their word to start shipping in September.

but i think they are little crazy, 28nm technology chips use for only 3 months production and will then be superseded by the 2nd gen chips ? I guess the 2nd gen KNC chip will be 20nm? no 20nm is not exotic enough, 14nm. KNC 2nd gen must be 14nm!

What makes you think fab size is the key to 2nd. generation?

They could simply be making a unit larger than the Jupiter.

[Loredo]

Thought experiment.  Assume that the network is comprised of three companies, and everyone else.

Each of the three companies can put an unlimited amount of hash power into the network.  Their fixed costs per TH to do so is c[1], c[2], and c[3].  Their costs of TH/Day is m[1], m[2], and m[3].

Do you think, knowing the levels of c[] and m[], you can determine the ultimate size of the network in theory?  If the three communicate intention to each other, and the others believe statements of intention made by any one, would that result in a smaller network size?

[Meizirkki]

The statement makes much less sense than most of you have pointed out. It's absurd they'd do this kind of thing for the sake of customer's satisfaction.

This is because they're mining with their own equipment, and want most profits. Not convinced? To fullfill their promise of "protecting our customers share on the network", they'd have to have a lot of devices sitting around waiting for shipping. I don't think they'd be sitting in a cardboard box all that time. Now, if and when the network hashrate keeps growing, they can dump these units cheap and look like the one who has to make a sacrifice for customers sake.

This is clever PR.

[erk]

The statement makes much less sense than most of you have pointed out. It's absurd they'd do this kind of thing for the sake of customer's satisfaction.

This is because they're mining with their own equipment, and want most profits. Not convinced? To fullfill their promise of "protecting our customers share on the network", they'd have to have a lot of devices sitting around waiting for shipping. I don't think they'd be sitting in a cardboard box all that time. Now, if and when the network hashrate keeps growing, they can dump these units cheap and look like the one who has to make a sacrifice for customers sake.

This is clever PR.

Sounds like utter BS to me, another "mining with their own equipment" claim, from obviously a greedy person that thinks all other people are greedy too just like him so he starts FUD stories.


Anyone with basic arithmetic skills can work out for themselves that it's several thousand percent more profitable to sell a miner that takes an hour or less to build, than it is to use the same miner for weeks on end just to get ROI.

[Xian01]

This doesn't make any sense to me. If I had a KNCMiner order, and hoped to receive it on schedule, I would be concerned right now.

[derr777]

It is, indeed, strange.. In fact, its so strange I can't figure out why anyone would come out with such a statement unless something strange was afoot.

You can absolutely assume that their competitiors *will* release as much hashrate as they can during those months, and then what?  KNC responds by dropping prices and selling a bunch of theirs.  A price war ensures, as will be the case with all of these companies eventually, and hashrate will be sold at a fraction of what it sells for now.

This is likely why they made the statement.. because they know that their customers who bought very early, funded the development, and are going to receive in Aug and Sep will be *PISSED* when they drop the price to 500.00 a unit in October to compete with all the others who have found its the only way they can sell any of the chips they've ordered.

They are attempting to cover for when this occurs.. its obvious to me, at this point, in fact.

[dentldir]

It is a strange email even if you ignore the grammatical errors and assume they are going to hit their delivery targets.  They aren't in any position to protect the network at this point.

If you are a KnCMiner customer and you are averaging your GH/$ up into the difficulty spike, KnCMiner isn't an option anymore.  So you will have to spend your money elsewhere to reach the plateau as one of the winners.

I guess this matters if you went all in with fiat and aren't already a profitable miner.  Otherwise, it's saying they are essentially out of the race.  They are selling to a market where the most threatening act is paying to mine for however long it takes to come out a winner.  How does cutting your customers off help when the competition will happily destroy their ROI for them?  Bitfury and ASICMiner have already put 50% discounts on the table for time decay.  I suspect that behavior will continue.

Maybe they are getting out ahead of a leaked statement which showed future unit pricing would hurt their current customers feelings?  If that's the case, then offer discounts to existing customers, don't cut them off.  I suppose its more likely that they are stopping production to work on their 2nd generation and are trying to use PR to cover the gap.

Since when did ROI trump strengthening the network anyway?

[Bitcoinorama]

Oh FFS no ROI for current customers, no repeat business. Is it really that hard?

[DPoS]

It is a strange email even if you ignore the grammatical errors and assume they are going to hit their delivery targets.  They aren't in any position to protect the network at this point.

If you are a KnCMiner customer and you are averaging your GH/$ up into the difficulty spike, KnCMiner isn't an option anymore.  So you will have to spend your money elsewhere to reach the plateau as one of the winners.

I guess this matters if you went all in with fiat and aren't already a profitable miner.  Otherwise, it's saying they are essentially out of the race.  They are selling to a market where the most threatening act is paying to mine for however long it takes to come out a winner.  How does cutting your customers off help when the competition will happily destroy their ROI for them?  Bitfury and ASICMiner have already put 50% discounts on the table for time decay.  I suspect that behavior will continue.

Maybe they are getting out ahead of a leaked statement which showed future unit pricing would hurt their current customers feelings?  If that's the case, then offer discounts to existing customers, don't cut them off.  I suppose its more likely that they are stopping production to work on their 2nd generation and are trying to use PR to cover the gap.

Since when did ROI trump strengthening the network anyway?

I guess most people lost the way of sensing good intentions..   it is a neighborly trait that of course eroded in many places and people.


They don't have the best English but what they mean is that they rather not ship out any more 1st gen miners after november but if other manufactures keep upping the the hashrate they will offer upgrades/units as cheap as they can to current owners so they can avg down Gh/$$ to stay ahead of the curve..

They are not implying they will just ship to new customers endlessly.. if you can comprehend reading, you will see they mentioned protecting their customers so they will return..

They don't expect other miner makers to not do business, they just want to show good faith that if there are heavy ramp up in hashrate then they will do their best to help while they wait to release 2nd gen.   

Every step of the way, knc has shown a very balanced way of thinking that is rare these days but was very common in those closely knit neighborhoods in old tyme towns..

[dbasql]

It's seems like they have good intentions and I hope they ship on time because I have vested interest.
With that said I think they have to be careful that they don't devalue their contracts and hosted mining by releasing too much hashing power at one time.
They have that luxury now just not sure how long it will last.

 

[HeRetiK]

Oh for fuck's sake people. Nowhere did they state that current orders will be delayed. From how I understand this, it's rather simple: Everyone who orders in time for this batch will get their orders before December. After that there will be a certain protection period as not to screw up the ROI of their first customers. Because, you know, everyone is bitching about a bad ROI on overpriced miners because the market gets flooded by that very same product and we're all competing with each other for better hashrates.

I honestly believe they try to act in the interest of their customers. Network hashrate and ROI are a fragile ecosystem. So just for argument's sake, let's assume they actually have the capacity to produce an amount of hardware that heavily rocks the network with little to no competition. Because, you know, in the current environment they would already have an edge by simply delivering on time and delivering as promised. The first miners go out, everyone see's they're actually capable of doing as promised and miners start ordering en masse. ROI fuckup for everyone, the only one making real profit being KnCMiner. Unless, of course, they're in for the long run and want repeat customers.

Now I'm not saying they're just doing this because they're doing it for a better world. It's a company after all. It's just that from a business point of view it might seem a good idea to not royally fuck your costumers over for a change.

If KnCMiner delivers and makes it right they could be the best thing happening to the network since friedcat. I definitely wish them best of luck because as of now they seem to be the most pleasant Bitcoin ASIC company to currently do business with. But let's see how it turns out, only the next few months will tell.

[DPoS]

yep - knc seems to be the table with the best odds in the ASIC mining casino..   fate still runs its course/// but as they say, place your bets

[andrewsg]

From a company currently responsible for exactly zero GH/s, this is pretty rich.

[Meizirkki]

Sounds like utter BS to me

Which it probably is, but not any more than KnC's BS statement deserves.

Anyone with basic arithmetic skills can work out for themselves that it's several thousand percent more profitable to sell a miner that takes an hour or less to build, than it is to use the same miner for weeks on end just to get ROI.

Anyone with basic sense of logical thinking can work out themselves, that KnC can use this statement to mine almost three months and then sell that hardware late "to protect their customers".

Whatever the case, the statement is clever PR.

[Bitcoinorama]

Sounds like utter BS to me

Which it probably is, but not any more than KnC's BS statement deserves.

Anyone with basic arithmetic skills can work out for themselves that it's several thousand percent more profitable to sell a miner that takes an hour or less to build, than it is to use the same miner for weeks on end just to get ROI.

Anyone with basic sense of logical thinking can work out themselves, that KnC can use this statement to mine almost three months and then sell that hardware late "to protect their customers".

Whatever the case, the statement is clever PR.

Words fail...

[erk]

Sounds like utter BS to me

Which it probably is, but not any more than KnC's BS statement deserves.

Anyone with basic arithmetic skills can work out for themselves that it's several thousand percent more profitable to sell a miner that takes an hour or less to build, than it is to use the same miner for weeks on end just to get ROI.

Anyone with basic sense of logical thinking can work out themselves, that KnC can use this statement to mine almost three months and then sell that hardware late "to protect their customers".

Whatever the case, the statement is clever PR.

And miss out on 3 months of production worth hundreds of times more in sales than the mining could ever provide. I think not, more likely they want to use the break to work on the next gen wafer run which would take about 3mths. They are making millions from this first batch, with which they can buy as much BTC as they need.

[de_ixie]

For me, this statement means different things (apart from good or bad PR/ intentions)

-> They dont intend to further flood the market after diff. got to high for their 1st gen devices to ever ROI
-> They want to protect customer ROI to let them reinvest in new gen. device (good for customer & good for them)
-> Keep diff. low enough to farm with their own devices (good for them)
-> Signaling other competitors that they do not want to get involved into a senseless, neverending, all ROI destroying ASIC race
-> Signaling other competitors that they are interested in a slow growth of network diff. which would be the best for the whole network
-> Signaling other competitors that they are fully armed in case it comes down to a race
-> Signaling customers that their product is limited (-> buy it, now!, good PR move indeed)
-> Most positive signal for me -> they are very confident about what they do

... place your bets