Securing your Cryptos

[Roccker]

Being your own bank – the hassle of securing your Cryptos

Let’s say theoretically you have 3 mio dollars in crypto (I don't, but to make this whole thing more pressing).
All your wealth.

Now you can leave it on an exchange, login with your password and 2 factor authentification. See the worth, have all coins nicely together, be able to buy and sell and send.

But everybody says ‘don’t leave it on the exchange’.
Because exchanges get hacked. Or hack themselves. Or get bankrupt (?).
Or something else that is weird.

Let’s say theoretically you have 1 mio dollars in crypto.
How do you secure it?
Concretely?

I guess being your own bank kinda sucks.

I want to find a good security strategy.
Links and tips welcome.


Eg Paper wallets
Nice, but where do you keep the paper?
In a safe? In your house? House burns down?
You remember the seed and check if you remember it every morning?

Ledger / Trezor.. hardware wallet.
Again.. you keep that in a safe?

One multi-coin wallet to rule them all? Where you learn the seed so you can repeat it in your sleep?
One wallet for each coin?
One wallet for about each 20k?

Thanks for comments

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[mocacinno]

Being your own bank – the hassle of securing your Cryptos

Let’s say theoretically you have 3 mio dollars in crypto (I don't, but to make this whole thing more pressing).
All your wealth.

Now you can leave it on an exchange, login with your password and 2 factor authentification. See the worth, have all coins nicely together, be able to buy and sell and send.

But everybody says ‘don’t leave it on the exchange’.
Because exchanges get hacked. Or hack themselves. Or get bankrupt (?).
Or something else that is weird.

Let’s say theoretically you have 1 mio dollars in crypto.
How do you secure it?
Concretely?

I guess being your own bank kinda sucks.

I want to find a good security strategy.
Links and tips welcome.


Eg Paper wallets
Nice, but where do you keep the paper?
In a safe? In your house? House burns down?
You remember the seed and check if you remember it every morning?

Ledger / Trezor.. hardware wallet.
Again.. you keep that in a safe?

One multi-coin wallet to rule them all? Where you learn the seed so you can repeat it in your sleep?
One wallet for each coin?
One wallet for about each 20k?

Thanks for comments

IF I had 1 mln in crypto, i'd probably divide my funds over the leading brand hardware wallets (trezor, ledger nano S, keepkey, bitbox), over a couple paper wallets, and keep some "change" on an airgapped pc.

I'd collect the seeds and bip38 encrypted private keys (from the paper wallets) on an airgapped pc, and break them up using Shamir's Secret Sharing Scheme https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamir%27s_Secret_Sharing (for example: http://point-at-infinity.org/ssss/). I'd probably create a 3 out of 4 scheme.

Then, i'd hire a safe deposit box at 3 banks, store 1 set of secrets and 1 hardware wallet in each deposit box, and keep 1 set and 1 hardware wallet at home...
The total cost would be ~$400 for the 4 hardware wallets, ~$250 for a small offline pc and ~$0 for the paper used to print the paper wallets/secrets.

Now IF somebody broke into my home and put a gun agains my head, they'd walk away with 25% of my funds (tops), if the bank got broken into, they'd only have 1 part of the secret, so they cannot recreate the seeds/private keys,...

I would, however, also look for an insurance company willing to insure the 25% of the funds i keep at home...

[Roccker]

Wow
Thanks!



Ok, i am not at this point yet.


Now i wonder how you would secure 100k.



My thinking so far:
Ledger Nano (or alternative)

Seed on paper (or cryptosteel from ledger)
-> 2 copies, in different locations

eg one encoded in diary story or something
one in... hm bank safe deposit box hm
Ok, ideally not the full code is in a deposit box or the diary, hm.
Eg 4 places, i just need 2 to open
Like you said with the Shamir Secret.. but i have no idea how this would work in practice, lots of reading to do i guess

[Mike Mayor]

I have also been thinking about how to properly secure my funds now that I have been gathering bitcoins for sometime and you really can't put a price on safesty so I will be buying a ledger nano s and you might buy 2 but that will be expensive. One I will barely use it will be for long term kind of like a safe or savings account while the other is more like a spending wallet. Paper copies of the privatekey can be given to a family member to keep in their house for extra safety.

[mocacinno]

Wow
Thanks!



Ok, i am not at this point yet.


Now i wonder how you would secure 100k.



My thinking so far:
Ledger Nano (or alternative)

Seed on paper (or cryptosteel from ledger)
-> 2 copies, in different locations

eg one encoded in diary story or something
one in... hm bank safe deposit box hm
Ok, ideally not the full code is in a deposit box or the diary, hm.
Eg 4 places, i just need 2 to open
Like you said with the Shamir Secret.. but i have no idea how this would work in practice, lots of reading to do i guess

The usage of Shamir's Secret Sharing Scheme isn't that hard, there are many implementations available like here:
http://point-at-infinity.org/ssss/

If you download the sourcecode, you can build it on a simple *nix box and run it straight from the prompt.

[UAE Seasider]

For security you should never leave any large amount of tokens on an exchange. MyEtherwallet is a good alternative for Ethereum and ERC-20 tokens as long as you avoid the phishing crooks.

[cascano]

I believe paper wallet and cold storage are the best options to guarantee the safety of your crypto coins. I'd get an old pc which I would reboot to factory settings and store most of my cryptos there. Write the pass phrases in two or three books of which you and your spouse know the places. Backup your wallet files and secure it in a safe vault. Of course if somebdoy put a gun to your head all these cold storage wallets could be compromised. I, guess the only real safety is by stroing your backups on physically different places and remembering the passphrases by heart.

[A1exander]

I would divide the funds between several hardware and cold storage wallets. The seeds that allow to restore wallets (both types) can be kept in encrypted password manager databases (like KeePass) and the databases can be backed up (encrypted backups) to remote servers (cloud storage, for example). Seeds on paper in a bank deposit boxes are also a viable option.

[alisafidel58]

Keeping your crypto currency safe is up to the person level of security, keeping all the valuable information about your wallet offline it the safest thing you can do, from putting all the codes into your skin (tattoo) or putting them in the safe of a bank were rubbers are impossible to penetrate it.

[mocacinno]

Keeping your crypto currency safe is up to the person level of security, keeping all the valuable information about your wallet offline it the safest thing you can do, from putting all the codes into your skin (tattoo) or putting them in the safe of a bank were rubbers are impossible to penetrate it.

I would seriously discourage putting your private key on your body as a tattoo... If you did this, anybody taking your picture in the swimming pool could rob you blind... And once your private key got compromised, you'd have to get a second tattoo with the next private key, then the thirth, then the fourth,...

[RodneyKings]

This is a good thread. I was thinking what's a good storage too in case I've reached a certain amount that's worth a fortune  The only thing I know recently is storing it in a cold storage device so most probably I'd buy different devices and divide the funds and store it. I'll be following this thread for more ideas too.

[Roccker]

This usb cable from ledger...

Is it just a normal usb cable?
Or does one have to use their special usb cable?
Thanks

https://www.ledgerwallet.com/products/ledger-otg-kit

edit: ok, i guess it's just a normal usb cable, googled it
Weird they sell it, but well

edit: ah, i am stupid, an usb cable is included with ledger nano anyway

[Roccker]

The Best Plan i came up so far:

Use a ledger nano s or similar for daily use.

Most important: Securing the seed


2 parts of the seed, A and B: (Multiple copies, but always only a part of the seed)
1.   A: rented Safe at a bank (in form of a scribble-diary, somewhere in there but pretty obvious)
2.   A: in ‘Diary’ in my cellar (many people live in the house, everybody has his little cellar)
3.   A: In my personal letterbox (ground floor in my apartment building, I have a key for it) -> also: my 2nd ledger is there
4.   B: In my diary at my home
5.   B: Hidden safe in my room (in a scribble-diary)
6.   B: At my dad’s place, with important documents, not totally clear text but pretty obvious
7.   B: At my mum’s documents too
8.   B: At my brother’s place, with important documents, not totally clear text but pretty obvious
9.   B: At my other brother’s place, with important documents, not totally clear text but pretty obvious
10.   B: At my other brother’s place, with important documents, not totally clear text but pretty obvious



Case: Ledger gets broken
I just have the seed easily reachable – diary in room B and personal letterbox A

Case: Theft – they steal safe B and diary B and ledger
They only have 1 part.
But: I have to call my family to get B now, and depend on them to having kept it safe for years -> that’s why I give it to 5 persons, cause this is one of my greatest worries / point of failures

Case: Bank gets robbed / burns down
They only have one part of the seed, so all is good

Case: My house – including the cellar – burns down, also including the ground floor
This is extremely unlikely. I mean it’s extremely unlikely the whole building gets burnt to the ground. 3 apartments perhaps, till the firemen come.
But I have A at rented Safe and B at one of my relatives

Case: I get tortured
Game over. Better not tell anyone I have cryptos. Oh, already did it.
I think there is some feature of ledger.. something with a fake second pin. I think I have to look it up.

Case: family turns against me
They only have one part

Case: I die
My brother and dad have one part of the seed, one of them hopefully remembers;
other part is in the safe of the bank, it will be opened to relatives, having written words there will be another big clue




QUESTIONS:
- Do you have a Security Strategy? How do you secure your bitcoins / private keys / seeds?
- What do you think about the strategy? What did I miss? What is bad about it? (or good)
Any Cases I missed?
- I am cheap, I don’t wanna pay 60 euros per year for safe, but well..
2 safes at different banks, one with A, one with B would be pretty secure I guess, and perhaps better than the ‘multiple relatives’ option
- Can I only recreate the seed with another ledger, or with any other wallet? I guess only with another ledger
- Where to keep all the paperwallets of the coins that ledger does not support? I guess in the bank safe, hm.. perhaps also in the diary in room
- Links to good threads or videos, gurus, blog articles.. very welcome, I got not too lucky so far in my search

[Mystery Companion]

I've found a lot of good and useful advises in this thread. Thanks to everybody who write his opinion here.
Of course I have to earn my $1 billion at first
But I will use this advises.

[charlie137]

insured services might be another option in case of hacks. but standard coverage usually only $500k. and it might take years to get funds back, depends on the situation. though all better than zero saved funds in case of stolen hardware/paper wallets

[Capt00]

For security you should never leave any large amount of tokens on an exchange. MyEtherwallet is a good alternative for Ethereum and ERC-20 tokens as long as you avoid the phishing crooks.

In addition with that, and this is what I've made is by changing it into fiat money and stored it on the reliable banks. Because we don't have a 100% assurance that our money keeping through online are fully secured even it have a strong keys and password. We are not perfect and there is possibilities that we've got fall into pishing sites.

[Roccker]

This sounds genius:
Buy 3 ledger nano s.
Make one seed and recreate also on the other 2 ledgers.
Destroy the seed.
Now you have 3 devices. Protected by your pin.
Use one ledger at home, have the other 2 at different places (bank safe, friends). Or better: have pin in the bank safe.

Gets stolen: No biggie, you have 2 other ones left. 8number-pin is uncrackable.
Perhaps buy another new one, create new seed, make again so you have 3 ledgers with same seed.

House burns down: No biggi, you have 2 others left, same as above.

https://standardcrypto.wordpress.com/2016/01/19/if-you-cant-provision-a-good-hiding-place-for-your-hardware-wallet-seed-phrase-maybe-you-dont-need-to-back-it-up-in-the-first-place-use-multiple-wallets-plus-pin-instead/

[Isaak Brenner]

Secure Your Wallets

 First, it is wise to find a wallet with security measures beyond the normal wallet providers. Some wallets are now using encryption to protect the private keys. Companies like Corion have created a code package that encrypts the key data and protects it from insider hacking.

The above company offers a variety of services including a wallet and an exchange, all of which use encryption for private keys. Corion stands for capital online reward incentive optimized network – meaning that the company incentivizes consumers to use the platform by giving them rewards for activity. Corion has also shared the code for their Safety Look Solution so that other wallet providers can offer the same level of security. The details are available on their GitHub here.

[Harri Wolter]

Double Check the Address

 It’s important to double check the address that you send any payment transaction to. There are malicious programs that can edit a ‘copy and paste’ procedure in order to paste a different address, the new address belongs to an attacker. It’s usually best to send a micro payment as a verification, and then send the larger payment to the verified address.

[Rolf Walker]

Check the Locks
 It’s important, when using a web wallet, to ensure that there is an SSL security mark in the address window of your web browser. This stands for secure site seal, and ensures that your browsing is encrypted. The website should begin with HTTPS, rather than HTTP and you should notice a lock sign next to the URL. Again, security is critical when dealing with digital wallets.

Bonus Tip:
Use a non-public email address for all your crypto accounts including exchanges. For that mail, set up a two factor verification. As always, make up a strong password (including some unique characters).