[BitFunder] Ukyo.Loan - Paying 0.05% daily.

[malkusch]

Only 5% of them need to be sold at that price to fully cover all of the ACtM debt.
Once that debt is settled the remaining shares or BTC will likely be given to a safe third party for distribution to the victims of Uyko. This is entirely legal and right.

You don't get my point. In a worst case scenario I expect the rest of Ukyo's wealth to be distributed proportionately to us, the debtees. It is not in our interest that one entity gets his isolated cut before.

I suggest to create a new closed thread dedicated to Ukyo.Loan debtees to discuss the resolution constructively. That closed thread should be accessed by Ukyo plus deptees above a significant amount only. I would say a reasonable minimum is 10 BTC? Any opinions on that? I have the impression that everyone wants to have a word in that and the lower the involved amount is, the more non-constructive the words are. Do we have a list of BTC addresses who are involved into Ukyo.Loan?

[1714164514]

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[glendall]

^^^^ here is a link to a thread regarding the addresses used:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=437154.0

[glendall]

Expect the coins to be gone. It is highly improbable that Ukyo will honor the terms of the loan as he has shown criminal behavior, and borderline mental illness in his attempts rationalize his behavior.

Look at the facts:

1) Ukyo lied about all the coins that were being deposited to WeExchange being unavailable due to a technical error.

2) Ukyo owes millions of dollars of BTC to users who deposited to WeExchange and has not given any reason beyond 'the coins are gone'.

3) Ukyo continued to accept deposits to WeExchange for over 2 months, knowing fully that we has unable to let anyone withdraw the BTC they deposited.

I think it is safe to say after reading 1000s of posts on the subjects that it is most likely that Ukyo treated deposits to WeExchange as his own personal wallet. He then made some gambling investments that blew up in his face at lost all the money.  He lost money on Labcoin, Active Mining, and likely sold BTC into cash thinking that the high of $260 was a good time to sell, when in reality , it is probably never going back to this figure again. Of course I can't say I'm 100% -- the only person who knows is Ukyo and he is conveniently not telling. Which should be a red flag.

He is thief and what he did was not only unbelievably stupid, it was just plain illegal.  It is not even a matter of factors out of his control, he simply stole and lost millions of users' money. It is quite the mess.  

If you are going go the route of legal action the good news is his identity is known.  The bad news is a) legal action is expensive  b) it is unlikely to recover much funds as he likely lost much of them.  At the least though it would be satisfying to see him criminally charged, forced into bankruptcy, and have to tell us (finally) in a court of law what he actually did.

He's been buying for time now for 2.5 months, but it looks like finally people are starting to realize that they've been ripped off, and the house of cards is starting to crumble.

Stop trolling.

1. Incorrect
2. This is not supportive of your claims.
3. Incorrect

You forgot to mention:
4. Ukyo has not dissapeared
5. Ukyo distributed proportionally funds that were able to be made available
6. Ukyo is clearly working towards gathering BTC at _least_ from ActM shares to be able to distribute to users also


I had about 400btc of my personal funds tied up in the listed assets.
Somehow that does not amount to the total of the issue.

Jon why do you lie? This is all public record.  Mostly covered in this thread of the six or seven threads on this thievery going on:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=337523.0



1) You said the problems were purely technical in nature at first.  Then 'something' happened, which you have not explained, were you changed your tune. You changed your tune after it was infeasible that you were having a technical problem you couldn't solve and could not explain.

2)  The people waiting for funds was posted and it was over 2 million dollars worth of BTC. And it wasn't even the full list of people who lost money.

3) The withdraw problems were first brought to your attention in the third or fourth week of October.  Yet you put no warning messages up and continued to accept depositss even though you knew you could not pay them back until sometime in December (anyone can check that thread themselves for the exact date.

And I'm not trolling.  I'm mad about having my money stolen from me and I'm trying to warn others. There's a big difference.

[glendall]

"3) Ukyo continued to accept deposits to WeExchange for over 2 months, knowing fully that we has unable to let anyone withdraw the BTC they deposited. "

Say that again this's incorrect. Ukyo you are full of shit.

He stated that the problem, that made it impossible to do even manual withdrawals, started around November 15.

<nsa__> When did you first hear about the "other" issue?
<Ukyo> within 4 hours of disabling withdraws
<Ukyo> and stopping the manual ones
<Ukyo> rahter
<nsa__> date?
<Ukyo> dont recall
<Ukyo>Novemebr.. 15th? or something

From December 16:

I have also disabled the ability to send funds to BitFunder already.

_{^I can confirm that the deposit address was removed from weex December 16th, because I checked weex just after his post.}

• The first issue with the bitcoind client that made withdrawals really slow was first reported by Lophie in the middle of October. So the deposit page was removed about a month after the first withdrawal problems appeared. He did do manual withdrawals in that time span though.
  
  
• According to Ukyo, depositing was disabled within a day of him being made aware about a second issue(the legal issue) that meant that he couldn't do even manual withdrawals anymore.

Either way, you are incorrect.

What is the point of having this second account to publish FUD with Ukyo? Why don't you just keep it to your own account, less spam that way.

[MilkyLep]

IMHO even a public facing portal for claiming UKYO.LOAN shares would be beneficial to the situation at hand. It's been nearly a month two months since the portal was promised.

[WeexUser]

3) The withdraw problems were first brought to your attention in the third or fourth week of October.  Yet you put no warning messages up and continued to accept depositss even though you knew you could not pay them back until sometime in December (anyone can check that thread themselves for the exact date.

Correction: Ukyo said he removed the deposit addresses November 16. Many users here can confirm that claim, including me.
It is actually a bit weird that you don't remember that because you made the following post in that thread.. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=316546.msg3605386#msg3605386

According to Ukyo, the first issue was a temporarily technical issue. If that is indeed true then there wouldn't have been any reason to stop deposits at that time. I agree that a warning should have been posted on the site but that does unfortunately not seem to be the norm in bitcoin-world. Not even mentioning that you have withdrawal issues seems to be a norm

[glendall]

WeexUser, do you want to claim for the record that you are not Ukyo / Jon Montroll ?  I can't fathom why anyone would make an account and post over 70 messages supporting this scam unless it was in fact you.   Just like Jon Montroll you never answer questions you don't want to ask, you just deflect them.

As far as I recall the notice was not put up on Nov 16th. I checked after writing that post you wrote and recall not seeing that warning message.  But let's say it was accurate.  So Jon Montroll for 30 days or more, knew that he could not pay anyone back who deposited money to WeExchange, still allowed people deposit, without giving them any warning.  Great Jon / Ukyo / WeexUser, you really proved what an innocent person you are. It was only for over a month that you accepted money with no ability to pay back the depositors  

You've had my BTC for over 2 months now, closer to 3 , and you want to argue and rationalize what is okay with this situation? You have a lot of nerve.

[WeexUser]

WeexUser, do you want to claim for the record that you are not Ukyo / Jon Montroll ?  I can't fathom why anyone would make an account and post over 70 messages supporting this scam unless it was in fact you.

No, I am not Jon or in any way working for him.(how exactly would he even benefit from that?) And while I am a long time lurker of this forum, this is my first(and only) account. I'm just a user that happen to follow this issue very close because I am being owed quite a bit I am not directly supporting him, I just correct statements I can prove wrong since I see no reason for spreading false information about the issue.

Just like Jon Montroll you never answer questions you don't want to ask, you just deflect them.

Can you please specify such questions, thanks. I have many theories about want could have happened but I generally try to avoid making comments about any matter where I am only able to guess.

[mainline]

...I have many theories about want could have happened but I generally try to avoid making comments about any matter where I am only able to guess.

No need for theories.  Jon explained things tersely but clearly:  Your money is unavailable because reasons. 

[thy]

Lets hope Graet &/or Ukyo were the one with the buy order down at 102 usd per BTC on BTC-E yesterday so they got a shitload of very cheep coins so they both can start to resolve this Ukyo loan/Graet loan/Weexchange thing soon.

[SOSLOVE868]

guys, i need ukyo's company registration paper ...because I am going to find a lawyer to get back our BTC back. if anyone knows ,please share it with me ,thanks !!!

[ADgordo]

guys, i need ukyo's company registration paper ...because I am going to find a lawyer to get back our BTC back. if anyone knows ,please share it with me ,thanks !!!

Or by costing him legal fees you will ruin us all.

[SOSLOVE868]

guys, i need ukyo's company registration paper ...because I am going to find a lawyer to get back our BTC back. if anyone knows ,please share it with me ,thanks !!!

Or by costing him legal fees you will ruin us all.

You still believe this guy is working on resolution ?? you r too naive....

[glendall]

guys, i need ukyo's company registration paper ...because I am going to find a lawyer to get back our BTC back. if anyone knows ,please share it with me ,thanks !!!

Or by costing him legal fees you will ruin us all.

How long do you plan to wait before you would consider that your money has been stolen. It has been about 3  months. So what then, wait another 3 months? 6? A year even?Would you even then, after a year, start to suspect your money was stolen? All the indicators point to this being the case, good luck with Jon coming back in the future and returning your money 

[mgio]

guys, i need ukyo's company registration paper ...because I am going to find a lawyer to get back our BTC back. if anyone knows ,please share it with me ,thanks !!!

Or by costing him legal fees you will ruin us all.

How long do you plan to wait before you would consider that your money has been stolen. It has been about 3  months. So what then, wait another 3 months? 6? A year even?Would you even then, after a year, start to suspect your money was stolen? All the indicators point to this being the case, good luck with Jon coming back in the future and returning your money 

It's a tough choice. He claims he has the money invested in new business ventures and that those investments should eventually return a profit allowing him to pay back the loan. Unfortunately he won't tell us what these ventures are or what their status is.

Since he has owned or ran several businesses in his life, he likely has some assets. If you sue him and he declares bankruptcy as a result, you won't get his house. The courts will likely let him keep that. But you may get something. After the lawyers take their giant share though. Before you do that, you should get a good idea of what his assets are.

I think I am still ukyo's biggest creditor, and I'm one of many. Ukyo's total liabilities are estimated at $2-$3 million between ukyo.loan and bitfunder. I'm getting a bit frustrated too. The well over hundred thousand that ukyo owes me would definitely make it worth my time to get the best lawyer I could find if I decide to go that route. Whatever you do, make sure you've thought it out very clearly first. You might end up costing yourself more money that you get out of it.

[SOSLOVE868]

guys, i need ukyo's company registration paper ...because I am going to find a lawyer to get back our BTC back. if anyone knows ,please share it with me ,thanks !!!

Or by costing him legal fees you will ruin us all.

How long do you plan to wait before you would consider that your money has been stolen. It has been about 3  months. So what then, wait another 3 months? 6? A year even?Would you even then, after a year, start to suspect your money was stolen? All the indicators point to this being the case, good luck with Jon coming back in the future and returning your money 

It's a tough choice. He claims he has the money invested in new business ventures and that those investments should eventually return a profit allowing him to pay back the loan. Unfortunately he won't tell us what these ventures are or what their status is.

Since he has owned or ran several businesses in his life, he likely has some assets. If you sue him and he declares bankruptcy as a result, you won't get his house. The courts will likely let him keep that. But you may get something. After the lawyers take their giant share though. Before you do that, you should get a good idea of what his assets are.

I think I am still ukyo's biggest creditor, and I'm one of many. Ukyo's total liabilities are estimated at $2-$3 million between ukyo.loan and bitfunder. I'm getting a bit frustrated too. The well over hundred thousand that ukyo owes me would definitely make it worth my time to get the best lawyer I could find if I decide to go that route. Whatever you do, make sure you've thought it out very clearly first. You might end up costing yourself more money that you get out of it.

Do you want to join me with this ?the total liabilities from u and me  is around 40k USD, and the legal cost for two of us should be the same as only one .  it is worth to give a try, I think stay and waiting here would be useless.  what you think?

[SOSLOVE868]

I think the UKYO's address from Shitfanleak might a bit confuse, because there are two separate address belongs UKYO's  which one should I use?
or these address isn't correct? if anyone knows real address, please let me know ,thanks !  also I have contact the two number from that website, has nobody answer the phone. The number I used also from whitepages.com



Below is the address and number  from whitepages.com , I am doubt about the reliability of the information from this website. ?

8173065870
8175603458

741 Sparrow Dr
Fort Worth, TX 76131-2912

and

8101 Chapin Rd
Benbrook, TX 76116-6905

If anyone know which one is the real address of UKYO and phone number, please send me a PM, if you feel it is not good to put in here you also can send me  email address : mistake868@Hotmail.com

If I got my BTC back or send him to bankruptcy I will give you some BTC as a return. 

Kind Regards

[WeexUser]

I posted this in the moving forward thread yesterday but it is just as relevant here:

Ukyo showed up at the Dallas Bitcoin meetups several times last summer, before that thread, and then disappeared a few months later.

He talked about having just come back from helping Mark Karpelles get Mt Gox working again after the DDoS, had bad things to say about Marks's organizational and coding abilities, and told us Mark's side of the dispute with CoinLab (all the stuff that came out in the countersuit).

At the time he claimed to be working to get the necessary state-level MSB licensing and was preparing to have WeExchange take over the USD side of Mt Gox's businesses. (Do all the things CoinLab promised but never achieved). That clearly never panned out.

He was worried about the SEC and Bitfunder and was looking for an exit strategy.

This was most likely also the big news he was talking about. Combined with the IRC-log from December 17, I think we might have uncovered the cause of the problems at weex (and mtgox?).

Code: (#weex)

<Ukyo> been fighting gox to coorolate things
<Ukyo> to find out exactly whats what on those orders
<Ukyo> er..
<Ukyo> >,>
<Ukyo> <,<
<Ukyo> i am going to shut up now.

[mgio]

I posted this in the moving forward thread yesterday but it is just as relevant here:

Ukyo showed up at the Dallas Bitcoin meetups several times last summer, before that thread, and then disappeared a few months later.

He talked about having just come back from helping Mark Karpelles get Mt Gox working again after the DDoS, had bad things to say about Marks's organizational and coding abilities, and told us Mark's side of the dispute with CoinLab (all the stuff that came out in the countersuit).

At the time he claimed to be working to get the necessary state-level MSB licensing and was preparing to have WeExchange take over the USD side of Mt Gox's businesses. (Do all the things CoinLab promised but never achieved). That clearly never panned out.

He was worried about the SEC and Bitfunder and was looking for an exit strategy.

This was most likely also the big news he was talking about. Combined with the IRC-log from December 17, I think we might have uncovered the cause of the problems at weex (and mtgox?).

Code: (#weex)

<Ukyo> been fighting gox to coorolate things
<Ukyo> to find out exactly whats what on those orders
<Ukyo> er..
<Ukyo> >,>

uhoh, this is really bad then. If ukyo's new business venture involved mtgox then it is never going to happen and he should work on divinding up whatever assets are left.
<Ukyo> <,<
<Ukyo> i am going to shut up now.

[mgio]

guys, i need ukyo's company registration paper ...because I am going to find a lawyer to get back our BTC back. if anyone knows ,please share it with me ,thanks !!!

Or by costing him legal fees you will ruin us all.

How long do you plan to wait before you would consider that your money has been stolen. It has been about 3  months. So what then, wait another 3 months? 6? A year even?Would you even then, after a year, start to suspect your money was stolen? All the indicators point to this being the case, good luck with Jon coming back in the future and returning your money 

It's a tough choice. He claims he has the money invested in new business ventures and that those investments should eventually return a profit allowing him to pay back the loan. Unfortunately he won't tell us what these ventures are or what their status is.

Since he has owned or ran several businesses in his life, he likely has some assets. If you sue him and he declares bankruptcy as a result, you won't get his house. The courts will likely let him keep that. But you may get something. After the lawyers take their giant share though. Before you do that, you should get a good idea of what his assets are.

I think I am still ukyo's biggest creditor, and I'm one of many. Ukyo's total liabilities are estimated at $2-$3 million between ukyo.loan and bitfunder. I'm getting a bit frustrated too. The well over hundred thousand that ukyo owes me would definitely make it worth my time to get the best lawyer I could find if I decide to go that route. Whatever you do, make sure you've thought it out very clearly first. You might end up costing yourself more money that you get out of it.

Do you want to join me with this ?the total liabilities from u and me  is around 40k USD, and the legal cost for two of us should be the same as only one .  it is worth to give a try, I think stay and waiting here would be useless.  what you think?

I would, but I haven't decided definitely to go that route yet. I sent a message to ukyo a few days ago and I'm going to give him a chance to respond first.