[BTC-EQTY] Version 2 - An Investment fund with proven returns!

[xaviarlol]

There will be more during the next report date, but I think something worth mentioning is that BTC-EQTY's J-D investment greatly out-performed Just-dice's benchmark house profit, once again indicating that BTC-EQTY provides above-average returns.

As at the time of this post, BTC-EQTY's position in JD is +18.16%, while the JD house profit position is +0.2571%. This basically means that the total ROI from JD was +0.2571%, where as BTC-EQTY's same position on that investment is +18.16%.

BTC-EQTY is also now selling bonds, for those people who want risk-free guaranteed returns, paid upfront!. Current return for those bonds is 21.9% APR. More info in this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=260986.0

I notice the bonds claim to be secured against all of BTC-EQTY's assets.  Does that mean the benefit and risk of the bonds gos to BTC-EQTY investors (i.e. the capital raised from them is an asset and their face-value is a liability)?

Correct. When the bonds are all issued, there will be a profit/loss section, liabilities etc in the main report. Probably for September's report.

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[Pale Phoenix]

Just a heads up. The house profit shown on Just Dice is calculated from the amount WAGERED, not the amount INVESTED.

[xaviarlol]

Just a heads up. The house profit shown on Just Dice is calculated from the amount WAGERED, not the amount INVESTED.

Of course, it would be impossible for it to be on the amount invested as it is dynamic.

The point was comparing it to the site benchmark, which one can consider as the "average" return to all shareholders (some people lost more, some gained more).

[Pale Phoenix]

The .2571% has nothing to do with return to investors because it is derived by dividing the amount won by the amount wagered. It certainly isn't the average return to investors, which is impossible to calculate, as you say.

Are you seriously comparing your own ROI to a measure of the house's edge, which is expected to be 1% and is only now .2571% due to variance in the EV of the game?

[xaviarlol]

The .2571% has nothing to do with return to investors because it is derived by dividing the amount won by the amount wagered. It certainly isn't the average return to investors, which is impossible to calculate, as you say.

Are you seriously comparing your own ROI to a measure of the house's edge, which is expected to be 1% and is only now .2571% due to variance in the EV of the game?

Firstly, the .2571% does have something to do with the return to investors because that's what came out of investor pockets as a whole. It's impossible to quantifiy what investors lost, or gained what, but the net profit/loss for the collective investment is that figure.

Secondly - No - the ROI is highly dependent on the level of investment at that time, which is what I have based the timing on investing on. I focused on times when there is low investment and high turn-over, which resulting in my fund greatly out-performing the expected return.

[Pale Phoenix]

Dude, slap some water on your face and think about this again because you are making a rather serious error.

You are comparing the return on your investment to a number that will always be very close to 1%. The 1% is the EV of the GAME, not the investment. It is the probability that over a large number of rolls, the house will win 1% of bets.

Think of it in terms of a different kind of investment, say a grocery store. The grocery store has 1 million in sales and 10 thousand in profit in a year, giving it a profit margin of 1%. The investors in the store have put up 100 thousand dollars, so their return (assuming all profits are distributed) is 10%.

In the case of Just Dice, you are trying to compare the investors return to the store's profit margin. The two numbers are only related in that they both are calculated using the same numerator, the profit in dollars.

[xaviarlol]

Dude, slap some water on your face and think about this again because you are making a rather serious error.

You are comparing the return on your investment to a number that will always be very close to 1%. The 1% is the EV of the GAME, not the investment. It is the probability that over a large number of rolls, the house will win 1% of bets.

Think of it in terms of a different kind of investment, say a grocery store. The grocery store has 1 million in sales and 10 thousand in profit in a year, giving it a profit margin of 1%. The investors in the store have put up 100 thousand dollars, so their return (assuming all profits are distributed) is 10%.

In the case of Just Dice, you are trying to compare the investors return to the store's profit margin. The two numbers are only related in that they both are calculated using the same numerator, the profit in dollars.

Ohhh... now I understand what you are saying.

Yes, you are right, the comparison is invalid. Though when the house profit is in the negatives, or near, its safe to say that a double digit ROI from an individual is a very good outcome. Eg. The grocery store's actual return has been -1%, the investors will take a -10% loss, in your example.

[ranlo]

Mmmm, this looks interesting but... I find it hard to follow the ASICMiner train right now... from a logical POV, there are tons of ASIC's being shipped out right now and the hash rate is increasing (and will increase at a very fast rate). As hash rate goes up, AM's relative hash rate (and therefore income) lowers. It's hard to justify going into a fund that is banking so much on what is inevitably going to be heading downhill as soon as all the new chips start hitting people's doorsteps. At least to me, I think we are either at, or are very near, AM's peak; it seems like a pretty high-risk low-reward investment option.

Or am I missing something here?

[Voodah]

Mmmm, this looks interesting but... I find it hard to follow the ASICMiner train right now... from a logical POV, there are tons of ASIC's being shipped out right now and the hash rate is increasing (and will increase at a very fast rate). As hash rate goes up, AM's relative hash rate (and therefore income) lowers. It's hard to justify going into a fund that is banking so much on what is inevitably going to be heading downhill as soon as all the new chips start hitting people's doorsteps. At least to me, I think we are either at, or are very near, AM's peak; it seems like a pretty high-risk low-reward investment option.

Or am I missing something here?

You're forgetting they are not mannequins.

They will keep upgrading, buying more power, developing new miners, selling stuff, etc. You invest in the company, not the current hashing power.

[ranlo]

Mmmm, this looks interesting but... I find it hard to follow the ASICMiner train right now... from a logical POV, there are tons of ASIC's being shipped out right now and the hash rate is increasing (and will increase at a very fast rate). As hash rate goes up, AM's relative hash rate (and therefore income) lowers. It's hard to justify going into a fund that is banking so much on what is inevitably going to be heading downhill as soon as all the new chips start hitting people's doorsteps. At least to me, I think we are either at, or are very near, AM's peak; it seems like a pretty high-risk low-reward investment option.

Or am I missing something here?

You're forgetting they are not mannequins.

They will keep upgrading, buying more power, developing new miners, selling stuff, etc. You invest in the company, not the current hashing power.

But we're basically hoping that ASICM can keep up with all the other ASIC providers? I'd think if they could increase their hashing power considerably over a short period of time they'd have done it already, :p.

It's tough, really. I get that we're basically betting on the company as a whole... but with BFL, Avalon and the others all finally getting out some major hash power... it's going to offset the playing field considerably.

[xaviarlol]

Mmmm, this looks interesting but... I find it hard to follow the ASICMiner train right now... from a logical POV, there are tons of ASIC's being shipped out right now and the hash rate is increasing (and will increase at a very fast rate). As hash rate goes up, AM's relative hash rate (and therefore income) lowers. It's hard to justify going into a fund that is banking so much on what is inevitably going to be heading downhill as soon as all the new chips start hitting people's doorsteps. At least to me, I think we are either at, or are very near, AM's peak; it seems like a pretty high-risk low-reward investment option.

Or am I missing something here?

You're forgetting they are not mannequins.

They will keep upgrading, buying more power, developing new miners, selling stuff, etc. You invest in the company, not the current hashing power.

But we're basically hoping that ASICM can keep up with all the other ASIC providers? I'd think if they could increase their hashing power considerably over a short period of time they'd have done it already, :p.

It's tough, really. I get that we're basically betting on the company as a whole... but with BFL, Avalon and the others all finally getting out some major hash power... it's going to offset the playing field considerably.

Asicminer is a very well-run mining company, I have full confidence in their ability to respond to the types of things you described. I don't lose any sleep at night having a relatively high amount of holdings in AM.

I think that they have a lot of tricks up their sleeve in the event that their dominance is threatened, they also have a great track record of achieving goals and staying on top of the food chain.

[Pale Phoenix]

I'd think if they could increase their hashing power considerably over a short period of time they'd have done it already, :p.

AM doesn't want to control more than 20% or so of BTC mining so they moderate the hashing power they bring online. They are now considering renting out their excess power to other firms to keep mining distributed.

Take some time to read the AM thread to fully understand their business model.

[xaviarlol]

Dear Shareholders,

Just a reminder that the next reporting date will be the 1st of August. Remember, this period is only around 11 days long, as the fund opened on the 20th of July. A dividend will also be issued on that date, but as the fund has only traded for 11 days, it will be less than next months dividend.

I am currently overseas, but I expect there to be no disruption to this date.

[xaviarlol]

Hi all,

Dividends for this month have now been issued. It is only a partial month, as the fund opened just 11 days ago. Net Dividends were 0.00081612 BTC per share after fees taken out.

Reporting Highlights (the period is 11 days, not a full month)
- Fund net profit was an impressive +11.17498862 BTC, or +5.81% for the 11 days of trading.
- Profit was strong despite a large fall in ASICMINER share price.
- Most profit reinvested (approx 10 BTC)
- NAV is 203.62226028, up from 192.44727166 BTC

Normalized Profit stats
- Normalized to a monthly amount, the profit was +15.85% per month
- Normalzed to yearly profit rate (annualized profit), the profit rate was +190.15% per year

For more detailed stats, check the company report and report history at: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuQ3xQRnpXqEdG5yMHZCaVkydWM5V1pzZld6WmtZa2c&usp=sharing

[Voodah]

Ok, I want in.

What do?

[xaviarlol]

Ok, I want in.

What do?

Just PM me with how much you want to invest and I'll send you all the relevant figures and instructions.

[dark_silverstar]

im interested as well, and already send you pm 

[busidelinghun]

reserved

[xaviarlol]

Just to reiterate, there is a 10 share minimum purchase for BTC-EQTY B.

And also, in last three 3 months, BTC-EQTY has been the best performing investment fund out of the other funds showcased on these forums during that period. *shameless plug*

[Voodah]

Just to reiterate, there is a 10 share minimum purchase for BTC-EQTY B.

And also, in last three 3 months, BTC-EQTY has been the best performing investment fund out of the other funds showcased on these forums during that period. *shameless plug*

Would you consider 5 shares?