Bitcoin spending

[gambit1]

The most important thing for bitcoin right now, in my opinion, is that people use them. It will be hard for bitcoin to move forward if people don't. I would like anyone interested, therefore to state:

* Whether they have ever bought anything with bitcoin. I would also find it helpful if people who have never bought anything with bitcoin could contribute to give a realistic picture.
* How much (in vague terms if necessary) they spend a year with bitcoins.
* If they have never bought anything with bitcoin, why not.
* How they think people might be encouraged to use their coins in transactions to stimulate the bitcoin economy

I think that such responses could help give a feel for the state of the real bitcoin economy as opposed to just mining and speculation

Cheers.

[franky1]

knowing that someone is spending is not as important. knowing there are many places to spend them on and that people can generally live some form of life on bitcoin is more important.

i think a push to get entrepreneurs away from mining projects and into retail projects is the way forward. there is still a lack of grocery food and standard (non gimmicky) clothing that needs to be filled for bitcoin to be considered an everyday use item.

[gambit1]

"knowing that someone is spending is not as important"

Perhaps but there is a chicken and egg problem. Merchants and entrepreneurs will not push the bitcoin economy forward if everyone is holding onto their bitcoins for dear life. I'm trying to guage the willingness of people to spend their coins instead of saving them. This might not be as important, but it is an important consideration.

[romerun]

as long as I still have fiat, bitcoin is the last thing I will spend, so far for 2 years i haven't spent a single coin on the normal stuff, because it feels very dumb, when you know it will be 1000+. But when it reach 1000, I might buy a ferrari with btc on the next day.

To me btc is lottery ticket, I don't spend it, until I win.

[gambit1]

Thanks for your honest answer. I imagine that many feel like that and that's what I want to discover.

[franky1]

i have spend my hoard 3 times over, i just have knowledge and experience to recoup my hoard

but the simple point is unless there is a variety of ways for people to decide to spend their coins directly, eventually 21 tonnes of mannure can be worth more to farmers then 21 million bitcoins. because mannure has a multitude of uses.

so we really need a retail push and a slowdown on the mining publicity. many noobs come into bitcoin thinking they can turn their gaming machines into millionaire makers. this is not the case.

in the real world the richist ppeople are not gold barons digging for gold, that was so 19th century. now the richest people are people like the walmart family, microsoft, apple. the people that have product to sell.

[kik1977]

i have spend my hoard 3 times over, i just have knowledge and experience to recoup my hoard

but the simple point is unless there is a variety of ways for people to decide to spend their coins directly, eventually 21 tonnes of mannure can be worth more to farmers then 21 million bitcoins. because mannure has a multitude of uses.

so we really need a retail push and a slowdown on the mining publicity. many noobs come into bitcoin thinking they can turn their gaming machines into millionaire makers. this is not the case.

in the real world the richist ppeople are not gold barons digging for gold, that was so 19th century. now the richest people are people like the walmart family, microsoft, apple. the people that have product to sell.

That's exactly the point in my opinion!

But I mumble and mumble on this: in order to have people widely spending their bitcoins we need a sort of "stability" in the value, otherwise they will tend to keep them in their wallets (or not using them from the beginning) rather than using them. A slow fluctuation is ok, a slow increase in their value is probably what we need to stop people buying them just for "trading" rather than for using them as a currency. This would and probably will force pretty any merchant to accept them, to stay in business and also because in turn they can use them to buy the products their selling. The problem is that a quick adoption obviously lead to a sudden increase in value and we are again at the starting point, people will keep them rather than spending them..

It's a strange concept: it's my opinion that bitcoins need a "slow" success. A huge and suddend adoption and we will have again what happened in April. 

Ok, now the reply to OP's question: I have coins and I've also spent some (not more than 10 though) in IT stuff.

[gambit1]

I'm really just trying to guage attitudes, which vary.

You are right about mining. Every noob wants to mine. That is a problem. Some people think bitcoin is dead because of ASICS. In reality it just means most can't mine profitably.

If you look at romeruns attitude to bitcoin, no amount of expansion of retail will part him with his coins. He said "To me btc is lottery ticket, I don't spend it, until I win." He also said "i haven't spent a single coin on the normal stuff, because it feels very dumb, when you know it will be 1000+". I wonder how prevelant this attitude is.

I'm not condemning this attitude at all because I partially share it.

[gambit1]

Incidentally franky1, how on earth do you replenish your hoard? Thats a good trick. It can't be day trading because if you've got rid of your hoard then you've got nothing to day trade with!

[kik1977]

I'm really just trying to guage attitudes, which vary.

You are right about mining. Every noob wants to mine. That is a problem. Some people think bitcoin is dead because of ASICS. In reality it just means most can't mine profitably.

If you look at romeruns attitude to bitcoin, no amount of expansion of retail will part him with his coins. He said "To me btc is lottery ticket, I don't spend it, until I win." He also said "i haven't spent a single coin on the normal stuff, because it feels very dumb, when you know it will be 1000+". I wonder how prevelant this attitude is.

I'm not condemning this attitude at all because I partially share it.

The problem is: if you keep all your coins and all the other users do the same, how on earth you think the price you're aiming to will be reached? No spending=no merchants accepting bitcoins (why they should?)=no wider adoption=no increase in value
You just have to pray others have a different mind set..

[gambit1]

That is partially but not entirely true. Pure speculative forces can make the price skyrocket. Already they have done so. The increase in the price of bitcoin from $0.25 to $100 had nothing to do with the expansion of the real bitcoin economy but only concerned speculation. Because bitcoin exists in parallel to a dramatically over monetized fiat based economy it is entirely possible for money to pour into bitcoins as a novel asset class. In an over monetised world, bubbles are the norm.

I didn't say that I had the attitude of never using bitcoins I said I partially share it. I'm tight with fiat money so I'm in no hurry to spend bitcoins I don't have to.

[arklan]

i buy stuff with bitcoin all the time. sometimes i've had to sell the coin to get cash for what i was after, but bitcoin mining has been my only real income for a while now. steam games, various gift cards, few orders through bitspend when they were around...

about all that would make me use it more would be gift cards for walmart or target or some grocery store. that's about all i buy in cash anymore.

[romerun]

I'm really just trying to guage attitudes, which vary.

You are right about mining. Every noob wants to mine. That is a problem. Some people think bitcoin is dead because of ASICS. In reality it just means most can't mine profitably.

If you look at romeruns attitude to bitcoin, no amount of expansion of retail will part him with his coins. He said "To me btc is lottery ticket, I don't spend it, until I win." He also said "i haven't spent a single coin on the normal stuff, because it feels very dumb, when you know it will be 1000+". I wonder how prevelant this attitude is.

I'm not condemning this attitude at all because I partially share it.

some say bitcoin will spread on bubble, not from those who just got in though, but from whom got rich from it. If I have 10k+ of btc as of now, I pry won't mind spending it. Every new high that we reach will leak coins from the old hoarders to others. It's just not yet my time. And this coin spreading is exponential phenomenal, at price of 1000, there will be a good amount of coin millionaires willing to spend coins on banana and bread, even they know that it could reach 10000, since it becomes less relevant to their wealth.

[wachtwoord]

as long as I still have fiat, bitcoin is the last thing I will spend, so far for 2 years i haven't spent a single coin on the normal stuff, because it feels very dumb, when you know it will be 1000+. But when it reach 1000, I might buy a ferrari with btc on the next day.

To me btc is lottery ticket, I don't spend it, until I win.

Just spend it an replace what you spend by spending fresh fiat crap.

[gambit1]

Arklan: cool

romerun: I'm quite tired so I though you said "I have 10K+ bitcoins as of now". Woke me up rather.

[arklan]

Arklan: cool

romerun: I'm quite tired so I though you said "I have 10K+ bitcoins as of now". Woke me up rather.

yea... problem is currently i'm only running 5ghash, upping to 7 shortly... it's a rough summer.

[Itcher]

good idea ... I talked to some shop owners in germany accepting btc, and they said, very few people did pay by now with btc. As long it goes like this, we'll never see mass adaption.

I bought a amazon-giftcard (50Euro) on bitmit for 0,12 btc. like the deal. I try to spend btc as much as possible, cause it's the best way to spread them. Also I love to do a transcation with my wallet instead of online-bankink

[Birdy]

I don't mind spending Bitcoins at all, because I can just rebuy them.
If something is something I need/want is aviable to purchase in Bitcoins instead of $/€, I would buy it, but I won't buy things just because they are aviable for Bitcoins (or pay any premium to buy in Bitcoins, it should be cheaper to buy with them - or at least not more expensive).
So far I've purchased an Humble Indie Bundle.

[crumbs]

That is partially but not entirely true. Pure speculative forces can make the price skyrocket. Already they have done so. The increase in the price of bitcoin from $0.25 to $100 had nothing to do with the expansion of the real bitcoin economy but only concerned speculation. Because bitcoin exists in parallel to a dramatically over monetized fiat based economy it is entirely possible for money to pour into bitcoins as a novel asset class. In an over monetised world, bubbles are the norm.

I agree with your conclusion, but not your reasoning.  "Over monetized fiat-based economy" has nothing to do with Bitcoin value (not sure what you mean by "over-monetised", but my guess is "too much paper money"?  What would "the right amount" be?)

For your interpretation to be valid, Bitcoin value would have to be (# of dollars in circulation) / (# of coins in circulation) * (fudge factor).  This is obviously not, and has never been, the case.

Bitcoin's value is speculative -- traders *bet* on how much *other traders* will be willing to pay for 1 BTC in the future.  Understanding this is essential to investing in Bitcoin.  
This doesn't mean that SD & SR aren't factors in Bitcoin's price -- they are.  But exchanges -- where people trade Bitcoin -- are way more important.

I didn't say that I had the attitude of never using bitcoins I said I partially share it. I'm tight with fiat money so I'm in no hurry to spend bitcoins I don't have to.

I don't blame you.  It costs me money to by bitcoins, i take risks using them to buy (no chargeback), there's no immediate incentive to buy with Bitcoin (most merchants accepting Bitcoin accept fiat, the prices are meh & selection is worse), while "buy back the bitcoins you spent is ... patently absurd -- it costs me time, markups, transaction fees etc., etc. -- just to get back to having the bitcoins i started with.  All pain, all loss, 0 gain.  The trick also has dubious value to Bitcoin velocity if my bitcoins are instantly converted to fiat anyway (BitPay).

[Birdy]

"buy back the bitcoins you spent is ... patently absurd -- it costs me time, markups, transaction fees etc., etc. -- just to get back to having the bitcoins i started with.  All pain, all loss, 0 gain.  The trick also has dubious value to Bitcoin velocity if my bitcoins are instantly converted to fiat anyway (BitPay).

~0.5% fee and ~1-2 minutes, I don't think it's that bad.
At least I don't mind buying back the coins.