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Author Topic: User responsibility  (Read 160 times)
#BitcoinVegan
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December 15, 2017, 03:04:57 PM
 #1

I feel the congestion going in the network is not only a attack on the network but also alot of users not knowing the real sovereignty they have with in bitcoin.

Yes some companies do have alot of steak but they don't own anything.

Could the problem be not enough new miners and full nodes ?

I'm just upset with these fees and the fact that big companies aren't showing support for the users by integrating segwit.

Any and all feedback is appreciated.
"In a nutshell, the network works like a distributed timestamp server, stamping the first transaction to spend a coin. It takes advantage of the nature of information being easy to spread but hard to stifle." -- Satoshi
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TheQuin
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December 15, 2017, 03:11:39 PM
 #2

Could the problem be not enough new miners and full nodes ?

This makes absolutely no difference to the number of transactions the network is able to process. This is how it was designed with difficulty retargeting to cope with increasing or decreasing numbers of miners.

I'm just upset with these fees and the fact that big companies aren't showing support for the users by integrating segwit.

This is mainly due to most large companies using Core for their wallets. Core does not yet support the ability to send Segwit transactions. Hopefully, things will improve after the next major release.

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December 15, 2017, 03:14:18 PM
 #3

I think it is because of the growing number of users and it is like the internet long ago, it is just growing pains. IT will get better.
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December 15, 2017, 03:21:33 PM
 #4

We should all be responsible for our transactions, but the problem is, we cannot control the people who wanted to invest in bitcoins, the congestion already happened, but fortunately in long run it had been fixed and i running smoothly, though there are some that are still congested. I think we should just learn to be patient whenever there is a congestion, our transactions will still push through, it will just take a long time for confirmations.
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December 15, 2017, 03:48:15 PM
 #5

I feel the congestion going in the network is not only a attack on the network but also alot of users not knowing the real sovereignty they have with in bitcoin.

Yes some companies do have alot of steak but they don't own anything.

Could the problem be not enough new miners and full nodes ?

I'm just upset with these fees and the fact that big companies aren't showing support for the users by integrating segwit.

Any and all feedback is appreciated.

So if we are true to bitcoins sovereignty we will not trade our bitcoin and so the market will not be clogged? Alternatively you could say that if we are true supporters of bitcoin we will use it often for its true purpose which is to transfer funds, thus contributing to the network slowdown.

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December 15, 2017, 06:07:25 PM
 #6

It could be the case that miner themselves are having problem solving the transaction mess and that why they are taking huge fees really. They always have to share the X % of the fees with he pool from there they are grabbing the transaction for solving purpose. Though the pool reward is there but its not enough for the miner considering the number of trisection they try to solve really.

That too technical part but I believe is that they are right on their place and we being upset is the right position for us as the user. However, there will more developments in the future and we should not be worried about it right now. Lets wait and give time for everything to get us through third middle way. :-)

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December 15, 2017, 06:20:02 PM
 #7

Every user has some responsibility. If we play our responsibility properly, then our forum will run better and will be able to make a better community.
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December 15, 2017, 07:07:25 PM
 #8

Could the problem be not enough new miners and full nodes ?

You should really do a bit of lurking and reading before.

The blockchian can run with a single computer mining , like it did when satoshi mined alone.
1 miner or 100 , 1khas or 100Phash it's still 1M block every 10 minutes.
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Help:FAQ#Sending_and_Receiving_Payments

Nodes are not affecting transaction speed.
Full nodes are just full copies of the blockchain, their role is different.
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Full_node


It could be the case that miner themselves are having problem solving the transaction mess and that why they are taking huge fees really. They always have to share the X % of the fees with he pool from there they are grabbing the transaction for solving purpose. Though the pool reward is there but its not enough for the miner considering the number of trisection they try to solve really.

Miners don't solve transactions.
They solve "puzzles" (see link above) and they add tx to the blocks.
Be it 1 tx or 3000 tx it's the same, it's not more difficult.


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December 15, 2017, 07:16:31 PM
 #9

I feel the congestion going in the network is not only a attack on the network but also alot of users not knowing the real sovereignty they have with in bitcoin.

Yes some companies do have alot of steak but they don't own anything.

Could the problem be not enough new miners and full nodes ?

I'm just upset with these fees and the fact that big companies aren't showing support for the users by integrating segwit.

Any and all feedback is appreciated.
I mean, to an extent, there is a fair amount of onus on the user to actually understand what is going on, but it's not like there's a lot that can be used to convince people to not send transactions and wait for the network to decongest a bit. I'm somewhat surprised that the network inflated another 50k transactions but in another way I'm not, there's a lot of people that are trying to move their Bitcoin for one reason or another and that number won't be slowing down as the community grows in size.

It's good to see the total unconfirmed count slowly dropping, but it's going to be a lot of blocks before that number is manageable. Maybe 2MB blocks wouldn't be bad for the network.
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December 15, 2017, 07:19:46 PM
 #10

I feel the congestion going in the network is not only a attack on the network but also alot of users not knowing the real sovereignty they have with in bitcoin.

You are right, the whole network is collapsed by newbies, and there is nothing wrong with this, only that it is a little bit annoying.

But if you look on the transactions records on blockchain.info, you will see that a lot of people were paying more than $20 worth of fees to send $5 or so.

They clearly do not understand how fees works, they just fount a few coins on their wallet, and he/she/it feelt tempted to withdraw that money.


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#BitcoinVegan
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December 19, 2017, 02:39:20 AM
 #11

Could the problem be not enough new miners and full nodes ?

I'll look into it definitely, but I want to know what is messing up the network why are fees so high.

I don't believe 2Mb blocks are necessary only bc I read what Satoshi told Gavin or Garzik..

Just seems like it's taking too long to fix but that's why I'm a hodler

You should really do a bit of lurking and reading before.

The blockchian can run with a single computer mining , like it did when satoshi mined alone.
1 miner or 100 , 1khas or 100Phash it's still 1M block every 10 minutes.
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Help:FAQ#Sending_and_Receiving_Payments

Nodes are not affecting transaction speed.
Full nodes are just full copies of the blockchain, their role is different.
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Full_node


It could be the case that miner themselves are having problem solving the transaction mess and that why they are taking huge fees really. They always have to share the X % of the fees with he pool from there they are grabbing the transaction for solving purpose. Though the pool reward is there but its not enough for the miner considering the number of trisection they try to solve really.

Miners don't solve transactions.
They solve "puzzles" (see link above) and they add tx to the blocks.
Be it 1 tx or 3000 tx it's the same, it's not more difficult.


TimtheYoutuber
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December 19, 2017, 03:11:18 AM
 #12

The user responsibility lies in the security. We all have a obligation to secure our coins. Own the private keys and make back ups. Lots of users fault at this.

#BitcoinVegan
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December 19, 2017, 04:29:31 PM
 #13

The user responsibility lies in the security. We all have a obligation to secure our coins. Own the private keys and make back ups. Lots of users fault at this.

Like I said user responsibility goes further than just holding bitcoin and the private keys.

As much as the people on this panel want to say it doesn't deal with mining or running nodes it does.

The reg person relied on companies and wallet providers to uphold the dignity of this community, then Roger Ver bcash and bigger block talks start swirling around, then the plug is pulled, leaving the users to pay 20 USD to move money.

Now he looks like a genius even in actuality he just pulled the SUPPORT away, leaving a hole for the ref users to fill so just saying holding your private keys isn't enough, bc you have ppl in undeveloped parts of the world dying to get and use bitcoin.

This is a open source community so instead if relying on companies and others to fix the issue, I feel it's on the user's to educate themselves in the proper field to get this ship moving again bc right 2018 isn't looking that good for the average person and bitcoin.
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December 19, 2017, 04:43:11 PM
 #14

I feel the congestion going in the network is not only a attack on the network but also alot of users not knowing the real sovereignty they have with in bitcoin.

Yes some companies do have alot of steak but they don't own anything.

Could the problem be not enough new miners and full nodes ?

I'm just upset with these fees and the fact that big companies aren't showing support for the users by integrating segwit.

Any and all feedback is appreciated.
This is one of the reasons that most companies or big players do see on bitcoin on where this flaw would really make them hesitate to engage on bitcoin. Slower confirmations and with ridiculous high fees would be the main thing.I dont know whats actually the purpose of those fork events because things do really still remain steady just like was before. Expect there would really be congestion because of sudden demand.

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December 19, 2017, 05:06:27 PM
 #15


This is one of the reasons that most companies or big players do see on bitcoin on where this flaw would really make them hesitate to engage on bitcoin. Slower confirmations and with ridiculous high fees would be the main thing.I dont know whats actually the purpose of those fork events because things do really still remain steady just like was before. Expect there would really be congestion because of sudden demand.
thousands and even millions of bitcoin transactions happen in every minute,
this is what causes the queue on the block resulting in transaction bottlenecks.
reasonable when the confirmation time is long enough and the rising cost of this high is reasonable,
because the current bitcoin price is very high

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#BitcoinVegan
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December 19, 2017, 05:15:34 PM
 #16


This is one of the reasons that most companies or big players do see on bitcoin on where this flaw would really make them hesitate to engage on bitcoin. Slower confirmations and with ridiculous high fees would be the main thing.I dont know whats actually the purpose of those fork events because things do really still remain steady just like was before. Expect there would really be congestion because of sudden demand.
thousands and even millions of bitcoin transactions happen in every minute,
this is what causes the queue on the block resulting in transaction bottlenecks.
reasonable when the confirmation time is long enough and the rising cost of this high is reasonable,
because the current bitcoin price is very high
[/quote]

So I read a medium last night saying the only for bitcoin to work is for some type of centralization, either layer one will have 100 USD transaction or layer 2 will be a centralization of lightning payments.  Is this True?

I think the word centralization is used wrongfully in this community.

You say it's reasonable probably bc you been holding bitcoin for quite some time and partially bc it's mathematically correct but it's not.

I think it has a great bit if dealing with the fact that most of these companies aren't on board with #segwit
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December 19, 2017, 09:45:56 PM
 #17


This is one of the reasons that most companies or big players do see on bitcoin on where this flaw would really make them hesitate to engage on bitcoin. Slower confirmations and with ridiculous high fees would be the main thing.I dont know whats actually the purpose of those fork events because things do really still remain steady just like was before. Expect there would really be congestion because of sudden demand.
thousands and even millions of bitcoin transactions happen in every minute,
this is what causes the queue on the block resulting in transaction bottlenecks.
reasonable when the confirmation time is long enough and the rising cost of this high is reasonable,
because the current bitcoin price is very high

Millions of bitcoin transactions happen every minute?
From where do you buy the stuff you snort? That is some serious stuff you do there.

There are only ~ 25 million addresses with a balance.
For millions of transactions every minute it would mean that (we consider 5 addresses with balance per person) that every bitcoin holder would need to do a transaction every 5 minutes!!!!!!
Every 5 minutes non stop 24/7 or 31 Smiley.

Stop giving advice here when it's actually you who needs to do some reading.



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December 19, 2017, 10:36:57 PM
 #18


This is one of the reasons that most companies or big players do see on bitcoin on where this flaw would really make them hesitate to engage on bitcoin. Slower confirmations and with ridiculous high fees would be the main thing.I dont know whats actually the purpose of those fork events because things do really still remain steady just like was before. Expect there would really be congestion because of sudden demand.
thousands and even millions of bitcoin transactions happen in every minute,
this is what causes the queue on the block resulting in transaction bottlenecks.
reasonable when the confirmation time is long enough and the rising cost of this high is reasonable,
because the current bitcoin price is very high

Millions of bitcoin transactions happen every minute?
From where do you buy the stuff you snort? That is some serious stuff you do there.

There are only ~ 25 million addresses with a balance.
For millions of transactions every minute it would mean that (we consider 5 addresses with balance per person) that every bitcoin holder would need to do a transaction every 5 minutes!!!!!!
Every 5 minutes non stop 24/7 or 31 Smiley.

Stop giving advice here when it's actually you who needs to do some reading.



'Millions of bitcoin transactions' Smiley
According to fork.lol (24h average) for bitcoin:
4.35 transactions / second
15,650 tx/hour
375,597 tx/day

But I was surprised about the average tx fee:
536.38 sat/B (this is the average (!!!) )
The tx fee can also do ATH now it seems

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December 19, 2017, 10:40:29 PM
 #19

I feel the congestion going in the network is not only a attack on the network. I'm just upset with these fees and the fact that big companies aren't showing support for the users by integrating segwit.

It is no longer an attack to the blockchain --- you all need to understand it.

There are a lot of people trying to make transactions all over the time, and everytime that there are more and new transactions on the mempool, every wallet provider tries to set their own fee to make the tx's go through more faster than the others.

That is why there are always a higher fee than before [supply and demand of fee's, maybe]

But yes, the whole blockchain is saturated right now, my hardware wallet is saturated, my coinbase and gdax wallet's are saturated, the sames go to almost all the exchanges, it is a giant cycle.

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December 20, 2017, 06:25:33 PM
 #20

I feel the congestion going in the network is not only a attack on the network but also alot of users not knowing the real sovereignty they have with in bitcoin.

Yes some companies do have alot of steak but they don't own anything.

Could the problem be not enough new miners and full nodes ?

I'm just upset with these fees and the fact that big companies aren't showing support for the users by integrating segwit.

Any and all feedback is appreciated.
It’s a very good question what will be the responsibilities of bitcoin users for bitcoin I think first of all we need to teach bitcoin to it's newbie and also we need to support them and secondly I think the most important thing is that we need to do advertisement of bitcoin through different resources if we start advertisement of bitcoin through social media or on TV or in newspapers  so think it's mean we are doing our responsibilities for bitcoin because without all these bitcoin is trying to change our life so now it’s a time to do something for bitcoin.
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