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Author Topic: Wealth is unlimited.  (Read 9492 times)
Anonymous
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July 05, 2011, 01:17:54 AM
 #21

Only 17? LOLOLOLOL  That explains everything.


Unlimited wealth shot down in one link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_mass

But here's another for good measure: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_energy
Wealth isn't defined by the amount of matter and energy in the universe. It's defined by meeting desires and they can be met by requiring less consumption and at times eliminating the need to consume in the first place.
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AyeYo
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July 05, 2011, 01:34:19 AM
 #22

Only 17? LOLOLOLOL  That explains everything.


Unlimited wealth shot down in one link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_mass

But here's another for good measure: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_energy
Wealth isn't defined by the amount of matter and energy in the universe. It's defined by meeting desires and they can be met by requiring less consumption and at times eliminating the need to consume in the first place.

Then the "wealth" you're referring to is ficticious and subjective.  I'm talking about real wealth, resource wealth.

Enjoying the dose of reality or getting a laugh out of my posts? Feel free to toss me a penny or two, everyone else seems to be doing it! 1Kn8NqvbCC83zpvBsKMtu4sjso5PjrQEu1
Anonymous
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July 05, 2011, 01:36:43 AM
 #23

Only 17? LOLOLOLOL  That explains everything.


Unlimited wealth shot down in one link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_mass

But here's another for good measure: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_energy
Wealth isn't defined by the amount of matter and energy in the universe. It's defined by meeting desires and they can be met by requiring less consumption and at times eliminating the need to consume in the first place.

Then the "wealth" you're referring to is ficticious and subjective.  I'm talking about real wealth, resource wealth.
No, it's not. This wealth is called technology and innovation and actually makes resource wealth attainable.
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July 05, 2011, 01:41:55 AM
 #24

Only 17? LOLOLOLOL  That explains everything.


Unlimited wealth shot down in one link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_mass

But here's another for good measure: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_energy
Wealth isn't defined by the amount of matter and energy in the universe. It's defined by meeting desires and they can be met by requiring less consumption and at times eliminating the need to consume in the first place.

Then the "wealth" you're referring to is ficticious and subjective.  I'm talking about real wealth, resource wealth.
No, it's not. This wealth is called technology and innovation and actually makes resource wealth attainable.


And resource wealth is limited, so your statement is bunk.

Enjoying the dose of reality or getting a laugh out of my posts? Feel free to toss me a penny or two, everyone else seems to be doing it! 1Kn8NqvbCC83zpvBsKMtu4sjso5PjrQEu1
Anonymous
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July 05, 2011, 01:42:33 AM
 #25

Only 17? LOLOLOLOL  That explains everything.


Unlimited wealth shot down in one link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_mass

But here's another for good measure: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_energy
Wealth isn't defined by the amount of matter and energy in the universe. It's defined by meeting desires and they can be met by requiring less consumption and at times eliminating the need to consume in the first place.

Then the "wealth" you're referring to is ficticious and subjective.  I'm talking about real wealth, resource wealth.
No, it's not. This wealth is called technology and innovation and actually makes resource wealth attainable.


And resource wealth is limited, so your statement is bunk.
No, it is limited but the amount of people it can power is not -- or at the least very large.
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July 05, 2011, 02:09:13 AM
 #26

why are you arguing with a fool who doesn't believe in stars?
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July 05, 2011, 03:56:01 AM
 #27

Atlas takes the blue pill itt.

Civil Liberty Through Complex Mathematics
Anonymous
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July 05, 2011, 03:58:35 AM
 #28

Atlas takes the blue pill itt.
Elaborate, if you will.
benjamindees
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July 05, 2011, 04:03:41 AM
 #29

If wealth is subjective and infinite, then just plug yourself in and go back to sleep.

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Anonymous
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July 05, 2011, 04:04:40 AM
 #30

If wealth is subjective and infinite, then just plug yourself in and go back to sleep.
Value is subjective in its form. It's whatever people desire. It's always been subjective.
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July 05, 2011, 04:06:05 AM
 #31

Then the line for the frontal lobotomies starts over there ------>

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Anonymous
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July 05, 2011, 04:10:40 AM
 #32

Then the line for the frontal lobotomies starts over there ------>
So, tell me, I'm curious... How is wealth objective?
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July 05, 2011, 04:59:05 AM
 #33

I think you can agree that wealth is some function of technology, physical resources, and free energy, yes?

And it seems that what you are arguing in this thread is that technology and free energy are *effectively* unlimited, therefore wealth is unlimited.  Is that correct?

But I think it's easy to see that energy is in fact not unlimited.  Stars burn out.  Nuclear and chemical reactions are not perfectly reversible, as limited by entropy.  You're not advocating zero point vacuum energy, right?  Even if you were, in actuality wealth is more directly proportional to power or impulse, not just energy.  And power is limited by Carnot efficiency.  There is lots of energy in a cup of coffee, for instance.  But you can't use it for useful work, even theoretically.

And I think it's also easy to realize that technology, as a function of human effort, is also not unlimited.  Supporting humans capable of creating new technology takes a lot of energy and resources.  And it doesn't always pay off.  In fact it seldom does.  Human society, when considered as a giant Rube-Goldberg-like technology creation device, is probably one of the worst energy investments possible.

So, while I probably can't give you an exact, objective definition of wealth, I do know its limits, and therefore what form it will take.  So I know it exists.  And I can give you a rough outline.

Some links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_efficiency
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olduvai_theory

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Anonymous
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July 05, 2011, 05:02:16 AM
 #34

The universe has its limits but we can do damn good with what we have and the potential is unleashed when there are no limits on man's creativity.

And I think it's also easy to realize that technology, as a function of human effort, is also not unlimited.

Civilization has proven otherwise. Man isn't going to quit one day. We are not going to stop having desire.

Also, don't be limited by our current view of reality. It always changes. It will change.
imperi
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July 05, 2011, 05:06:29 AM
 #35

The universe has its limits but we can do damn good with what we have and the potential is unleashed when there are no limits on man's creativity.

And I think it's also easy to realize that technology, as a function of human effort, is also not unlimited.

Civilization has proven otherwise. Man isn't going to quit one day. We are not going to stop having desire.

Also, don't be limited by our current view of reality. It always changes. It will change.

We use a fraction of a percentage of the sun's energy that hits the Earth. There is so much potential for us to go. And we will not be using currency from the abacus era.
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July 05, 2011, 09:29:19 AM
 #36

We use a fraction of a percentage of the sun's energy that hits the Earth. There is so much potential for us to go. And we will not be using currency from the abacus era.

Totaly agree but then I have a vested interest in this.

Also atlas 17 dude im new here and already a fan of yours but really get out and nail some hippy chicks. These threads will still be here Smiley 


killer2021
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July 05, 2011, 10:10:07 AM
 #37

Atlas is right.

Wealth is unlimited because the sweat that drips from your brow is what creates wealth. Technology is used to amplify the amount of goods and services that can be produced per man hour. Same thing for knowledge, knowledge helps amplify the amount of goods and services that can be produced per man hour. This is the primary concept that must be understood to understand that wealth is indeed unlimited. It is only limited by the amount of knowledge you have and the amount of labor you are willing to expend.

Also don't be confused by the literal meaning of unlimited. In this context the term unlimited means that wealth can be created without a limit as long as you are willing to think and work. If you use the literal meaning then you will interpret that wealth can be created at any amount without the use of human labor or knowledge.

The people who believe that wealth is not unlimited are the same people who think that if one person is becoming wealthly it is done so at the expense of others. This is the belief that encompasses the idea that, "the rich get richer and the poor get poorer." Which is totally false because the standard of living for any society is based on the amount of goods and services produced. So if someone is creating lots of wealth in the form of producing lots of goods and services then that person is making everyone's life better because we now have more goods and services to consume.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GK_fRM8SO0


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July 05, 2011, 10:21:37 AM
 #38

Except for one minor problem.  Energy is not free and unlimited for us with our current technologies.  If we had limitless power, sure, absolutely.  Time of scarcity is over.

Until then, you are simply wrong.


Energy is free. There are plenty of technologies that can produce practically limitless energy for very little cost (eg. Cold Fusion, Vacume Energy). The only thing is that governments and big corporations have been actively suppressing this technology for their own gain.

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david4dev
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July 05, 2011, 12:26:45 PM
 #39

Depending on how you define it, wealth can be limited or unlimited.

However, natural resources are limited. There is a limited amount of oil, there is a limited amount of land, etc. There is no way that 6+ billion people can each own several km^2 of land, own a mansion and fly across the Earth every other day.

A country's wealth is often measured today as GDP. This itself is a measurement of production and consumption. There is a limit to the amount that can feasibly be produced and consumed which is why the belief that we can have endless growth is stupid. Wealth, if you define it in this way is definitely not unlimited.


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david4dev
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July 05, 2011, 12:32:44 PM
 #40

Energy is free. There are plenty of technologies that can produce practically limitless energy for very little cost (eg. Cold Fusion, Vacume Energy). The only thing is that governments and big corporations have been actively suppressing this technology for their own gain.

I assume by "limitless" you actually mean "more than we human's could ever use" because the idea of unlimited energy breaks a fundamental law of physics called the conservation of energy. Cold fusion has never been achieved in any verified experiments. Vacuume energy, as far as we know, can not be harvested for 'free energy'.

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