Bitcoin Forum
April 18, 2019, 07:16:00 PM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 0.17.1 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: « 1 [2]  All
  Print  
Author Topic: 2013-07-23 Wired.com - Why the Only Real Way to Buy Bitcoins Is on the Streets  (Read 5139 times)
thezerg
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1246
Merit: 1000


View Profile
July 23, 2013, 09:43:42 PM
 #21

You are certainly entitled to your opinion but at the same time you are being very discouraging simply because Buttonwood does not fit your needs. We Get It. Your debate is not constructive, it is belittling.

Guess what?  It doesn't fit my needs either... but unlike you, I can imagine people who would find it very convenient.  Cash is a simple solution to the BTC fiat impedance mismatch.

And chew on this; I'll bet that this service is distributing coins to more newbies then average, and that a much greater % of the sales in this market move the coins off the market (to small hoarders) as compared to an exchange like Gox.
1555614960
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1555614960

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1555614960
Reply with quote  #2

1555614960
Report to moderator
1555614960
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1555614960

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1555614960
Reply with quote  #2

1555614960
Report to moderator
1555614960
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1555614960

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1555614960
Reply with quote  #2

1555614960
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
mjr
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 194
Merit: 100


View Profile
July 23, 2013, 09:50:02 PM
 #22

meet established people in the bitcoin space

How come I recognize no names at any of these places? They must be super established in bitcoin, if no one knows who they are. LMAO Take it from someone that lives in NYC and has actually met really established people in bitcoins and in the tech world. I am sorry but this just made me laugh. 30-40 people and no one knows one of them. LMAO Next you will say Satoshi is showing up.

Yeah, you are totally right...Charlie Shrem, Fred Wilson (invested in CoinBase), guys from Coinapult, lots of knowledgeable people. Lawyers like Marco Santori, Chairman of the Bitcoin Foundation's Regulatory Affairs Committee, guys from Hedge Funds, many members of the press, many representatives of the bitangel investment fund. It is very easy to be dismissive, and I don't mind if you don't like it, or are not interested. Just saying, some people DO find value there, and for them, it continues to be a welcome meetup.

People that show up once isn't that a great bounce rate LMAO. I am not saying it is bad, but you think it is a serious exchange it isn't. It is a great way to show bitcoins off, which I bet why most people show up, but to think your going to be a serious exchange is a bad idea to have. I am surprised Fred Wilson didn't blog about it, but I guess he didn't think it was that important to dedicate a blog post which is bad I would have loved to see his thoughts on it.

Also I am with a hedge fund manager who loves bitcoin been in for 6 months and he never heard of buttonwood until now and he even agrees. It is a great way to make a name for yourself but you're putting too much energy into something that is just a demo of bitcoin at best.


meet established people in the bitcoin space

How come I recognize no names at any of these places? They must be super established in bitcoin, if no one knows who they are. LMAO Take it from someone that lives in NYC and has actually met really established people in bitcoins and in the tech world. I am sorry but this just made me laugh. 30-40 people and no one knows one of them. LMAO Next you will say Satoshi is showing up.

WTF is your problem?!  If you don't want to exchange BTC IRL then don't go.  Nobody needs EV to show flush with 100k BTC from the SD sale -- there's not that kind of volume.  "Established" in this context simply means consistently willing and able to trade coin.

Don't sh*t on other people's fun just b/c it doesn't fit your personal needs.


I wrote my opinion and me and the creator are having a debate, what is wrong with that? I forgot, if you disagree with someone in bitcoin community your automatically against bitcoins. I bet you are in the foundation, how is that working out for you. LMAO


I don't know people who carry around $1k in dollars to park with strangers.

Luckily, we do... Smiley

One guy recently came and bought $10,000. By himself. I cannot tell you how many people have had more than $1,000. That is not a lot to carry...

We are in the middle of a public space, surrounded by police in broad daylight. I never said (in fact, I explicitly said the opposite) that EVERYONE should use this for EVERYTHING. I said that for RETAIL CONSUMERS, who aren't interested in brokerage accounts, it is the easiest and fastest way to buy or sell. For institutional investors, obviously they may benefit from institutional exchanges, and those exist to service them. Again, to each their own, the fact that there are now 5 others, says that many people are seeing the value. In the same way that OTC can facilitate large trades based on a WoT, that is already forming, and hopefully will be formalized soon. I'm sorry that we don't merit your attention, I think that we will survive. I for one, am not anonymous, you know exactly who I am. I can't say the same for you however...

So one person provided the $10k liquidity. As I said, great demo for bitcoin, not a serious exchange.

wow, you really have done not even a google search huh? http://www.avc.com/a_vc/2013/06/bitcoin-bits.html

and that was the day we did $15,000. I already mentioned that we had two other $10,000 days. And you seem to think that I am starting the latest mt. gox competitor, I am not. This is not an "exchange" in the sense you mean. This is a place to build community, and provide liquidity, instantly. Without all the bullshit you get when you deal with exchanges. In that respect, it does what it is meant to beautifully. There is more to a market than volume and transactions. There are people and relationships, and while Mt. Gox and other exchanges have neglected that, this model embraces that.  

Seriously, I'm glad you are so cool. Mircea says:

(5:17:42 PM) mircea_popescu: mjr_ nice answer.
(5:18:04 PM) mircea_popescu: gweedo is a sort of tradefortress. young guy, joined < 1 year ago, managed to mauintain interest
(5:18:30 PM) mircea_popescu: which'd put him a step above the average six week old noob,
(5:18:35 PM) mircea_popescu: and two steps above the random nut.

So the fact that he has heard of you is actually impressive. You didn't come up much when we were in Romania though at the conference...so I would pipe down just a little. I've tried to stay civil, but you seem to be trolling. This is a means to provide access, it is a place to get instant liquidity. A place to build community. It is not meant for institutions. It is meant for individuals. That has been clearly and expressly stated from the beginning.

I mean of course you are entitled to your opinions, but why do you care so much? As someone else beautifully put it:
Quote
WTF is your problem?!  If you don't want to exchange BTC IRL then don't go.  Nobody needs EV to show flush with 100k BTC from the SD sale -- there's not that kind of volume.  "Established" in this context simply means consistently willing and able to trade coin.

Don't sh*t on other people's fun just b/c it doesn't fit your personal needs.

mjr
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 194
Merit: 100


View Profile
July 23, 2013, 09:56:41 PM
 #23

And I do welcome the opportunity to discuss it, but there is little point in discussing why fish aren't dogs...

You do seem quite antagonistic, and I don't mind that, but I think you could pick actually valid points to argue. Like, what about security? It only meets once a week? etc.

Those are issues that have been looked into. Things are growing, and in the same way that bitcoin is not now what it will one day be, neither is satoshi square. I think the other people understand the purpose behind it. Let's say hypothetically that a large exchange stops you from being able to wire dollars to yourself. This is an alternative.

If you have anything constructive or interesting to say, I am here and willing to discuss other than that, I have a lot of work to get to.

gweedo
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1246
Merit: 1000


Java, PHP, HTML/CSS Programmer for Hire!


View Profile WWW
July 23, 2013, 10:07:15 PM
 #24

meet established people in the bitcoin space

How come I recognize no names at any of these places? They must be super established in bitcoin, if no one knows who they are. LMAO Take it from someone that lives in NYC and has actually met really established people in bitcoins and in the tech world. I am sorry but this just made me laugh. 30-40 people and no one knows one of them. LMAO Next you will say Satoshi is showing up.

Yeah, you are totally right...Charlie Shrem, Fred Wilson (invested in CoinBase), guys from Coinapult, lots of knowledgeable people. Lawyers like Marco Santori, Chairman of the Bitcoin Foundation's Regulatory Affairs Committee, guys from Hedge Funds, many members of the press, many representatives of the bitangel investment fund. It is very easy to be dismissive, and I don't mind if you don't like it, or are not interested. Just saying, some people DO find value there, and for them, it continues to be a welcome meetup.

People that show up once isn't that a great bounce rate LMAO. I am not saying it is bad, but you think it is a serious exchange it isn't. It is a great way to show bitcoins off, which I bet why most people show up, but to think your going to be a serious exchange is a bad idea to have. I am surprised Fred Wilson didn't blog about it, but I guess he didn't think it was that important to dedicate a blog post which is bad I would have loved to see his thoughts on it.

Also I am with a hedge fund manager who loves bitcoin been in for 6 months and he never heard of buttonwood until now and he even agrees. It is a great way to make a name for yourself but you're putting too much energy into something that is just a demo of bitcoin at best.


meet established people in the bitcoin space

How come I recognize no names at any of these places? They must be super established in bitcoin, if no one knows who they are. LMAO Take it from someone that lives in NYC and has actually met really established people in bitcoins and in the tech world. I am sorry but this just made me laugh. 30-40 people and no one knows one of them. LMAO Next you will say Satoshi is showing up.

WTF is your problem?!  If you don't want to exchange BTC IRL then don't go.  Nobody needs EV to show flush with 100k BTC from the SD sale -- there's not that kind of volume.  "Established" in this context simply means consistently willing and able to trade coin.

Don't sh*t on other people's fun just b/c it doesn't fit your personal needs.


I wrote my opinion and me and the creator are having a debate, what is wrong with that? I forgot, if you disagree with someone in bitcoin community your automatically against bitcoins. I bet you are in the foundation, how is that working out for you. LMAO


You are certainly entitled to your opinion but at the same time you are being very discouraging simply because Buttonwood does not fit your needs. We Get It. Your debate is not constructive, it is belittling.

Guess what?  It doesn't fit my needs either... but unlike you, I can imagine people who would find it very convenient.  Cash is a simple solution to the BTC fiat impedance mismatch.

And chew on this; I'll bet that this service is distributing coins to more newbies then average, and that a much greater % of the sales in this market move the coins off the market (to small hoarders) as compared to an exchange like Gox.

Actually my debating is very constructive, cause I am giving a good perspective.

I didn't say it wasn't convenient for other people's needs? So stop putting words in my mouth thank you.

Ohhh great more coin hoarding newbies. We need to start pumping money into bitcoin if we want to get to the $266, not sell to newbies that run around saying they have a bitcoin. I am sorry this is a demo at best, and the creator doesn't want to believe it.

Thanks for putting words in my mouth and giving a opinion about my opinion that no one cares about. LMAO

I don't know people who carry around $1k in dollars to park with strangers.

Luckily, we do... Smiley

One guy recently came and bought $10,000. By himself. I cannot tell you how many people have had more than $1,000. That is not a lot to carry...

We are in the middle of a public space, surrounded by police in broad daylight. I never said (in fact, I explicitly said the opposite) that EVERYONE should use this for EVERYTHING. I said that for RETAIL CONSUMERS, who aren't interested in brokerage accounts, it is the easiest and fastest way to buy or sell. For institutional investors, obviously they may benefit from institutional exchanges, and those exist to service them. Again, to each their own, the fact that there are now 5 others, says that many people are seeing the value. In the same way that OTC can facilitate large trades based on a WoT, that is already forming, and hopefully will be formalized soon. I'm sorry that we don't merit your attention, I think that we will survive. I for one, am not anonymous, you know exactly who I am. I can't say the same for you however...

So one person provided the $10k liquidity. As I said, great demo for bitcoin, not a serious exchange.

wow, you really have done not even a google search huh? http://www.avc.com/a_vc/2013/06/bitcoin-bits.html

and that was the day we did $15,000. I already mentioned that we had two other $10,000 days. And you seem to think that I am starting the latest mt. gox competitor, I am not. This is not an "exchange" in the sense you mean. This is a place to build community, and provide liquidity, instantly. Without all the bullshit you get when you deal with exchanges. In that respect, it does what it is meant to beautifully. There is more to a market than volume and transactions. There are people and relationships, and while Mt. Gox and other exchanges have neglected that, this model embraces that.  

Seriously, I'm glad you are so cool. Mircea says:

(5:17:42 PM) mircea_popescu: mjr_ nice answer.
(5:18:04 PM) mircea_popescu: gweedo is a sort of tradefortress. young guy, joined < 1 year ago, managed to mauintain interest
(5:18:30 PM) mircea_popescu: which'd put him a step above the average six week old noob,
(5:18:35 PM) mircea_popescu: and two steps above the random nut.

So the fact that he has heard of you is actually impressive. You didn't come up much when we were in Romania though at the conference...so I would pipe down just a little. I've tried to stay civil, but you seem to be trolling. This is a means to provide access, it is a place to get instant liquidity. A place to build community. It is not meant for institutions. It is meant for individuals. That has been clearly and expressly stated from the beginning.

I mean of course you are entitled to your opinions, but why do you care so much? As someone else beautifully put it:
Quote
WTF is your problem?!  If you don't want to exchange BTC IRL then don't go.  Nobody needs EV to show flush with 100k BTC from the SD sale -- there's not that kind of volume.  "Established" in this context simply means consistently willing and able to trade coin.

Don't sh*t on other people's fun just b/c it doesn't fit your personal needs.

Yeah I didn't see it cause you are under 100 names hence "Satoshi Square". Wait so I have to have status with mircea_popescu to be able to comment on bitcointalk, I guess theymos should make this an official announcement. For the record, I actually been in bitcoin for almost 3 yrs now. Just cause I joined the forum more than a year ago but I guess romania doesn't teach math that well... But now we are off topic.

As I said before a demo at best.

Want to earn 2500 SATOSHIS per hour? Come Chat and Chill in https://goseemybits.com/lobby
gweedo
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1246
Merit: 1000


Java, PHP, HTML/CSS Programmer for Hire!


View Profile WWW
July 23, 2013, 10:10:28 PM
 #25

You are certainly entitled to your opinion but at the same time you are being very discouraging simply because Buttonwood does not fit your needs. We Get It. Your debate is not constructive, it is belittling.

Guess what?  It doesn't fit my needs either... but unlike you, I can imagine people who would find it very convenient.  Cash is a simple solution to the BTC fiat impedance mismatch.

And chew on this; I'll bet that this service is distributing coins to more newbies then average, and that a much greater % of the sales in this market move the coins off the market (to small hoarders) as compared to an exchange like Gox.


LMAO just keep putting words in my mouth. Cause you think I am being belittling, so my opinion is invalid LMAO I am done with you, have no clue, just curse and call people belittling.

Want to earn 2500 SATOSHIS per hour? Come Chat and Chill in https://goseemybits.com/lobby
MPOE-PR
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 756
Merit: 500



View Profile
July 23, 2013, 10:28:40 PM
 #26

hmmmm....you have more than $15,000 in monthly expenses? That is what we did 2 weeks ago. $10,000? That is what we did yesterday...we move volume, and more importantly, you are getting linked in with people, forming trading relationships. If I need cash, I can call Owen, or Dustin, or Kirill and they will buy my coins, and vice versa if I need coins quick, I can always tap into this network. Also, as this paradigm spreads, and more people start doing this, the network will evolve. I have friends in LA, and across the world, I can sell their coins for them here, and vice versa. If the two parties are willing, they can work out terms of settlement on their own.

Satoshi Square in New York is getting very close (we may have passed it already...) to $100,000 in volume. Now this is not anything compared to Mt. Gox, but do you know how many times we have halted trading? 0. How many times have we frozen accounts? 0

The response has been overwhelmingly positive. Even Jeremias Kangas from Localbitcoins.com has said that it makes sense.

That being said, it is not an all or nothing proposition. If you have a business level of commerce, perhaps you need a professional, enterprise solution. But does one guy who wants to buy one coin, who just heard of bitcoin for the first time, really need to wait 2 weeks for approval on mt. gox? I say no. That is a huge and very inconvenient barrier to entry. Many people aren't willing to give up credentials or even link their bank account in any way. Point is that this is necessary, and that is being shown.

This kid is going places, I say.

My Credentials  | THE BTC Stock Exchange | I have my very own anthology! | Use bitcointa.lk, it's like this one but better.
lightcoin
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 19
Merit: 0


View Profile WWW
July 24, 2013, 12:46:47 AM
 #27


I'm the guy on the right.   I thought it went pretty well.  Great 1st experience with OTC. 

Actually inspired me to start working on a P2P trading platform without the server handling any part of the transaction process.  Basically a P2P orderbook with mobile devices only.   

Looking forward to seeing this P2P orderbook  Grin
mjr
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 194
Merit: 100


View Profile
July 24, 2013, 10:22:04 AM
 #28


I'm the guy on the right.   I thought it went pretty well.  Great 1st experience with OTC. 

Actually inspired me to start working on a P2P trading platform without the server handling any part of the transaction process.  Basically a P2P orderbook with mobile devices only.   

If you would like to see my first attempts (very beta) at doing just that, please check out:

buttonwood.btcshares.com (order functionality, buggy)
buttonwood_advanced.meteor.com (the framework in which i will plug that order book in)
https://github.com/joshuarossi

it will have the following features, the way I have envisioned it:
1. User ratings
2. Geolocation (implemented but buggy)
3. Notification system
4. Profile system which links in with online identity (twitter, irc, bitcointalk, facebook, twitter, google, etc)
5. Market Data feeds and API access

And a lot more...

I am a huge fan of zeroblock and would welcome working with you, if you would rather partner with what I am trying to do.
boomerlu
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 50
Merit: 0


View Profile
July 24, 2013, 01:48:36 PM
 #29

TBH, Satoshi Square is more of a meetup (granted, with a primary purpose of facilitating trade) than an "exchange" at this point. And that's fine. It suits my purposes perfectly.
btc4ever
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 418
Merit: 250


View Profile
July 24, 2013, 07:22:49 PM
 #30

Has there been any talk of starting a buttonwood in San Jose / Silicon Valley? 

Psst!!  Wanna make bitcoin unstoppable? Why the Only Real Way to Buy Bitcoins Is on the Streets. Avoid banks and centralized exchanges.   Buy/Sell coins locally.  Meet other bitcoiners and develop your network.   Try localbitcoins.com or find or start a buttonwood / satoshi square in your area.  Pass it on!
mjr
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 194
Merit: 100


View Profile
July 26, 2013, 03:49:09 PM
 #31

two things...

all exchanges are essentially "meetup" groups, that is how the first exchanges/bourses/markets started. Whether people "meetup" online, or in person, you are joining a group for the purpose of transacting. Also, I think that you are mistaking differences in scale to differences in kind. A market is a market, whether it is a large market, or a small one. The goals and methods are the same. That is also why Satoshi Square is not the same as other meetup groups, people are coming prepared to trade (cash and bitcoins), because they know the goals of the meetup group they are attending. If I show up at a meetup group that is based on providing information, and ask to buy (or sell) $10,000 worth of bitcoin, I most likely won't be able to do that, the people who can facilitate transactions of that size may not be present, or may not be prepared. Like all meetup groups, clarity of focus and stated goals is what is important. There is no reason that you can't have multi-dimensional meetup groups, and that is actually how I see this idea spreading to multiple days of the week.

Second, the guy who bought $10,000 in one shot was not providing liquidity, he was taking liquidity. If you understand markets, you will know that this is the case. We typically have many people willing to sell, if the price is right, but they are basically leaving orders on the book, he came in and did a "market buy", and swept through the book. We were able to provide liquidity for someone who wanted to execute a large trade, he had not arranged this trade in advance, or planned it out with others, he just showed up, and expected that people would be there to fill his order, and they were. You can also tell who is the maker and who is the taker by who set the price... Providing liquidity is the service of satoshi square.

I think there was some talk of starting one in San Jose/San Fran/Bay Area, but I am not 100% sure how that is coming along.
boomerlu
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 50
Merit: 0


View Profile
July 28, 2013, 01:08:19 AM
 #32

two things...

all exchanges are essentially "meetup" groups, that is how the first exchanges/bourses/markets started. Whether people "meetup" online, or in person, you are joining a group for the purpose of transacting. Also, I think that you are mistaking differences in scale to differences in kind. A market is a market, whether it is a large market, or a small one. The goals and methods are the same. That is also why Satoshi Square is not the same as other meetup groups, people are coming prepared to trade (cash and bitcoins), because they know the goals of the meetup group they are attending. If I show up at a meetup group that is based on providing information, and ask to buy (or sell) $10,000 worth of bitcoin, I most likely won't be able to do that, the people who can facilitate transactions of that size may not be present, or may not be prepared. Like all meetup groups, clarity of focus and stated goals is what is important. There is no reason that you can't have multi-dimensional meetup groups, and that is actually how I see this idea spreading to multiple days of the week.
I am simply saying that it hasn't progressed to the point where we have many rules. That's the distinction I'm making, not scale. We meet, talk about things, trade, but the trading process is not very formalized.
mjr
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 194
Merit: 100


View Profile
July 29, 2013, 08:37:24 AM
 #33

I agree, its kind of a free for all, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing...berlin was using a chalkboard, and they meet in a bar. We met in a park, and have tried various methods. Things will evolve, and better to let the market determine what direction.

That being said, I think that formalization is a function of time and popularity, we are the people (i include you in this) who will eventually set and "enforce" the rules of our exchange. Like any social gathering, the etiquette is usually set by the earliest adopters...they provide the "culture".
Pages: « 1 [2]  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!