The Biggest Pyramid Scheme Ever Devised!

[cypherdoc]

tell you what.  i'll send you my mortgage.  how's that?

No deal. Maybe you ought to read bitrebel's posts again until you understand how the US dollar is worth no more than your mortgage. Worth less, in fact, because at least the mortgage is honest about being a debt. I'd be doing you a disservice by taking your mortgage instead of your dollars... and I just wouldn't be able to sleep at night knowing I'd done that.

LOL!

[kloinko1n]

OMG!! You should just kill yourself. If you dont like fait currency then dont use them. If you use them then your a hypocrite plain and simple. People are so stupid that they will follow anything they are told. Maybe you should sacrifice a virgin.

Kill myself over a stupid currency? Are you crazy?
I use fiat currency because it's the only thing (except bitcoins) that I can use, because the governments force me to.

People fail to realise that using gold or silver makes a monetaty system more manipulable. Just look at what OPEC did in the 70s and oil is far more abundant than gold or silver. If a monetary system is only backed by metals then poverty increases. Over the last 90+ years poverty has fallen. People fail to realise that a metal backed currency can not expand to meet todays global economy.

I don't see the connection you make between OPEC/oil and a monetary system being thus manipu l a  b  l  e (did I get that right?).
Over the last 90+ years poverty has WHAT? Please support your statement with a credible link, thanks.

If you want to play semantics we can. Most countries hold gold and silver in their national bank. The US Federal Reserve hold billions of dollars in gold and silver that belongs to the people.

I guess that's why the private banker comprising the Federal Reserve has NEVER allowed a credible audit of their holding of the 'gold and silver that belongs to the people'? </sarcasm off>
There is nothing 'national' about the Federal Reserve. It's owned by the richest European and (OMG, shall I really say this?) 'zionist' bankers.[/quote]

Just because you cant trade your dollars for gold and silver doesnt mean that its not backed by gold and silver.

That you suggest and want to believe that it's backed by gold and silver doesn't necessarily make it so. (In fact it's not.)

Just because it belongs to the people doesnt mean you can have access the item.

If it belongs to the people, then why is it held by a private bank and never audited?
Even if it would 'belong to the people', I highly doubt it's still there.

For example, you cant go into the mayor's office of your city and use the computer in that office just because you want to.

Where I am now, I can go to the mayor's office and ask them if I can use their computer for a few minutes. I give myself 50% - 100% change my request will be granted, depending on who is using it. Without me claiming to be 'the owner'.

Most people can only see one side to this issue. They are told one thing and thats all they know. They cant think about the other side. This makes those people simple thinkers with inablity to think critically.

You know, I really agree with you on this one. And I'm sure you're one of those . 

[max in montreal]

http://vimeo.com/13726978

ffwd to 1 hour and 16 minutes into the film where they talk about money...

What is the ratio of Americans that owe money compared to the ones that do not? Forget the government debt, how many Americans OWE?

[bitrebel]

http://vimeo.com/13726978

ffwd to 1 hour and 16 minutes into the film where they talk about money...

What is the ratio of Americans that owe money compared to the ones that do not? Forget the government debt, how many Americans OWE?

Good post. It's been a while since I saw this.

I like Congressman Charles Lindbergh's quote from 1913,

"The King Bankers put into motion, in 1907, a great scheme. They had gambles and speculated on Wall Street until so many watered stocks and bonds had been manufactured...
   The King Bankers knew the condition and informed the favored of their friends of what was to come. There was to be a panic in the fall of 1907 that would be advertised as the result of our bad banking and currency laws".

Another word for Ponzi Scheme is a Ponzi Scheme and a Ponzi Scheme by any other name could be called the US Dollar.

[max in montreal]

I find this topic facinating. I wonder why everyone does not see it, and the problems with it. Maybe some do not understand how big 1 trillion dollars is...



A bundle of $100 notes is equivalent to $10,000 and that can easily fit in your pocket. 1 million dollars will probably fit inside a standard shopping bag while a billion dollars would occupy a small room of your house.

With this background in mind, 1 trillion (1,000,000,000,000) is 1000 times bigger than 1 billion and would therefore take up an entire football field - the man is still standing in the bottom-left corner.

[bitrebel]

I find this topic facinating. I wonder why everyone does not see it, and the problems with it. Maybe some do not understand how big 1 trillion dollars is...



A bundle of $100 notes is equivalent to $10,000 and that can easily fit in your pocket. 1 million dollars will probably fit inside a standard shopping bag while a billion dollars would occupy a small room of your house.

With this background in mind, 1 trillion (1,000,000,000,000) is 1000 times bigger than 1 billion and would therefore take up an entire football field - the man is still standing in the bottom-left corner.

Love it! But aren't we at approx. 14 Trillion now, with the bankers bailouts. I think it was 4 Trillion, then another 11 Trillion, right? That was after the initial 880 Billion, correct?

[bitrebel]

The only real difference I see in the pyramid scheme of the US Dollar via the Federal Reserve, and the typical pyramid scheme is the fact that pyramid schemes typically leave the bottom less fortunate late comers with a loss of money, and the US Dollar Pyramid leaves people with a loss of property, via real estate mortgages that are impossible to pay off, and car loans and small business loans.

If ALL money or , rather "debt", is borrowed into circulation to begin with, then there are always losers in the deck, they just come in later on. That's a pyramid scheme. Currently, the losers are the current generation of children who are inheriting this monumental debt, which at 14 Trillion, would be in the realm of 70 billion in interest, at least.

Ooops, I was wrong, I apologize.
Here are the REAL details.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

The interest in 2011 is currently at 3 Trillion, 625 Billion, and it amounts to approx.

$46,440 per person, with interest at approx. $11,631 per person, AS OF THIS POSTING.

Where is all that money going to come from?

Well, by the mere nature of the system as it is currently...

IT MUST BE BORROWED!!!

so, what do we all do to deal with this major problem?


BUY BITCOINS
SELL BITCOINS
SPEND BITCOINS
DEVELOP BITCOIN BUSINESSES
ACCEPT BITCOINS FOR PAYMENT
TELL PEOPLE ABOUT BITCOINS
HELP BITCOINS BECOME MORE POPULAR
WRITE POSITIVE BLOGS ABOUT BITCOINS
CONTACT MEDIA TO GIVE POSITIVE INTERVIEWS REGARDING BITCOINS
DEVELOP APPLICATIONS TO HELP BITCOINS BECOME MORE WIDELY ACCEPTED AND USED.

For every US dollar you trade for bitcoins, you trade increasing debt for increasing wealth.

[bitrebel]

and if the US Dollar has value and is not, in fact, debt....
then, can anyone explain to me how the us debt clock http://www.usdebtclock.org claims this?


Total DEBT Per Family = $669,426
Savings Per Family = $6,979

We are wealthy because of the US dollar, correct?

If given the opportunity, I would buY the essentials...

A Life Preserver, and A Few Bitcoins, because folks....

THE SHIPS A GOIN DOWN FAST!

[bitrebel]

"Most Americans have no real understanding of the operation of the international money lenders. The accounts of the Federal Reserve System have never been audited. It operates outside the control of Congress and manipulates the credit of the United States."
-Sen. Barry Goldwater

"The regional Federal Reserve banks are not government agencies. ...but are independent, privately owned and locally controlled corporations."
-Lewis vs. United States, 680 F. 2d 1239 9th Circuit 1982

"When you or I write a check there must be sufficient funds in our account to cover the check, but when the Federal Reserve writes a check there is no bank deposit on which that check is drawn. When the Federal Reserve writes a check, it is creating money."
-Putting it simply, Boston Federal Reserve Bank

"The Federal Reserve bank buys government bonds without one penny..."
-Congressman Wright Patman, Congressional Record, Sept 30, 1941

"The financial system has been turned over to the Federal Reserve Board. That Board administers the finance system by authority of a purely profiteering group. The system is Private, conducted for the sole purpose of obtaining the greatest possible profits from the use of other people's money"
-Charles A. Lindbergh Sr., 1923

"Bankers own the earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create money and control credit, and with a flick of a pen they will create enough to buy it back."
-Sir Josiah Stamp, former President, Bank of England

"All the perplexities, confusion and distress in America arise, not from defects in their Constitution or Confederation, not from want of honor or virtue, so much as from the downright ignorance of the nature of coin, credit and circulation."
-John Adams

"Banks lend by creating credit. (ledger-entry credit, monetized debt) They create the means of payment out of nothing." -- Ralph M. Hawtrey, Secretary of the British Treasury

"To expose a 15 Trillion dollar ripoff of the American people by the stockholders of the 1000 largest corporations over the last 100 years will be a tall order of business." -- Buckminster Fuller

"Some [Most] people think the Federal Reserve Banks are the United States government's institutions. They are not government institutions. They are private credit monopolies which prey upon the people of the United States for the benefit of themselves and their foreign swindlers." -- Congressional Record 12595-12603 -- Louis T. McFadden, Chairman of the Committee on Banking and Currency (12 years) June 10, 1932

"[Every circulating FRN] represents a one dollar debt to the Federal Reserve system." -- Money Facts, House Banking and Currency Committee

"We are completely dependant on the commercial banks. Someone has to borrow every dollar we have in circulation, cash or credit. If the banks create ample synthetic money we are prosperous; if not, we starve. We are absolutely without a permanent money system.... It is the most important subject intelligent persons can investigate and reflect upon. It is so important that our present civilization may collapse unless it becomes widely understood and the defects remedied very soon." -- Robert H. Hamphill, Atlanta Federal Reserve Bank

"The Federal Reserve system pays the U.S. Treasury 020.60 per thousand notes -- a little over 2 cents each-- without regard to the face value of the note. Federal Reserve Notes, incidentally, are the only type of currency now produced for circulation. They are printed exclusively by the Treasury's Bureau of Engraving and Printing, and the $20.60 per thousand price reflects the Bureau's full cost of production. Federal Reserve Notes are printed in 01, 02, 05, 10, 20, 50, and 100 dollar denominations only; notes of 500, 1000, 5000, and 10,000 denominations were last printed in 1945." -- Donald J. Winn, Assistant to the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve system

"Neither paper currency nor deposits have value as commodities, intrinsically, a 'dollar' bill is just a piece of paper. Deposits are merely book entries." -- Modern Money Mechanics Workbook, Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago, 1975

"This [Federal Reserve Act] establishes the most gigantic trust on earth. When the President [Wilson} signs this bill, the invisible government of the monetary power will be legalized....the worst legislative crime of the ages is perpetrated by this banking and currency bill." -- Charles A. Lindbergh, Sr. , 1913

"From now on, depressions will be scientifically created." -- Congressman Charles A. Lindbergh Sr. , 1913

and I LOVE how this one expresses my entire point about debt vs credit currency...

"There is a distinction between a 'debt discharged' and a debt 'paid'. When discharged, the debt still exists though divested of it's charter as a legal obligation during the operation of the discharge, something of the original vitality of the debt continues to exist, which may be transfered, even though the transferee takes it subject to it's disability incident to the discharge." -- Stanek vs. White, 172 Minn.390, 215 N.W. 784

and THAT'S the Federal Reserve Note for all you serious illiterate dollar loving blind santa claus believers...
who still may not believe in the potential of bitcoins

[MatthewLM]

People say all money you hold is owed back by you and there are others on the thread that get confused because of this.

As far as I know is that most (if not all?) of the new money is lent out expected to return to the federal reserve central bank. If you happen to get income from the money owed back with this "easy credit", you aren't the borrower. If the money doesn't get back into the hands of the borrower than I guess what happens is the borrower borrows more, potentially new, money or they default on the debt.

What the US government does is borrow more.

Quantitative easing refers to the buying of government bonds with new money, correct? Financing government debt with credit created from thin air?

Once again, I'm not an expert on these monetary things and I'm certainly not an expert on the US system. I don't know exactly how new money in the US is spent. I don't know if 100% goes to into credit or some goes to non-repayable subsidies.

People blame markets and capitalism in themselves for the financial crisis. I think these people are stupid.

[cypherdoc]

I find this topic facinating. I wonder why everyone does not see it, and the problems with it. Maybe some do not understand how big 1 trillion dollars is...



A bundle of $100 notes is equivalent to $10,000 and that can easily fit in your pocket. 1 million dollars will probably fit inside a standard shopping bag while a billion dollars would occupy a small room of your house.

With this background in mind, 1 trillion (1,000,000,000,000) is 1000 times bigger than 1 billion and would therefore take up an entire football field - the man is still standing in the bottom-left corner.

Love it! But aren't we at approx. 14 Trillion now, with the bankers bailouts. I think it was 4 Trillion, then another 11 Trillion, right? That was after the initial 880 Billion, correct?

the national debt is 14 trillion but the estimated private debt is 54 trillion.

[cypherdoc]

People say all money you hold is owed back by you

this is where everyone is getting confused.  there is small amt of currency in the system that is NOT owed back, but its only a small fraction, in fact, the Fed has a 54:1 leverage ratio. see this:

http://www.hussmanfunds.com/wmc/wmc110705.htm

"Turning to the subject of monetary policy, according to the Fed's consolidated balance sheet , the Fed now holds assets $2.87 trillion, versus $52.87 billion in capital, putting it just north of 54-to-1 leverage. "

As far as I know is that most (if not all?) of the new money is lent out expected to return to the federal reserve central bank.

yes in normal times.  but since 1913 the Fed has gradually relaxed this rule allowing a slow decline in the value of the USD to "help" Wall St.  the mirror image of this is inflation.  but since 2007, the Fed has ENORMOUSLY violated this rule by in fact permanently buying bad collateral (loans) from its member banks.

If you happen to get income from the money owed back with this "easy credit", you aren't the borrower. If the money doesn't get back into the hands of the borrower than I guess what happens is the borrower borrows more, potentially new, money or they default on the debt.

What the US government does is borrow more.

Quantitative easing refers to the buying of government bonds with new money, correct?

yes

Financing government debt with credit created from thin air?

yes again

Once again, I'm not an expert on these monetary things and I'm certainly not an expert on the US system. I don't know exactly how new money in the US is spent. I don't know if 100% goes to into credit or some goes to non-repayable subsidies.

People blame markets and capitalism in themselves for the financial crisis. I think these people are stupid.

[cypherdoc]

People say all money you hold is owed back by you.

this is where everyone is getting confused.  there is small amt of currency in the system that is NOT owed back, but its only a small fraction, in fact, the Fed has a 54:1 leverage ratio.

i forgot to add that those USD's you hold are still "debt backed" in the sense that they devalue as the US gov't has to take on ever larger amts of debt to pay off its current debt.

[cypherdoc]

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/fed-reverse-robin-hood

[MatthewLM]

The dollars which came from someone that owed them back, isn't owed back by you. It's owed back by the borrower.

yes in normal times.  but since 1913 the Fed has gradually relaxed this rule allowing a slow decline in the value of the USD to "help" Wall St.  the mirror image of this is inflation.  but since 2007, the Fed has ENORMOUSLY violated this rule by in fact permanently buying bad collateral (loans) from its member banks.

You mean it has had a relaxed policy on the repayment if loans?

[evoorhees]

and if the US Dollar has value and is not, in fact, debt....
then, can anyone explain to me how the us debt clock http://www.usdebtclock.org claims this?

You are still spouting nonsense in between your otherwise valid comments. The US dollar is not equivalent to debt. They are different things. A man with a bank account of $10,000 is NOT in an identical financial position to a man with a bank account of -$10,000. Your theory suggests that dollars=equal debt, and thus the two men are equivalent. That doesn't pass the straight-face test, let alone the more important test of reason. Dollars have value because you can exchange them for things. Will that be true in 10 years? Maybe not. But right now, they have value. They are not debt. They are assets of the bearer (but yes - depreciating assets).

Consider if the US was still on a gold standard, so that dollars were fixed to gold. The US Gov could STILL be trillions of dollars in debt, and we could still see the US Debt Clock in much the same manner. Your example is silly.

Thankfully, under a gold standard, a huge debt would encourage gold reserves to leave the country, thus curtailing the debt (this is why gov's don't like gold standards).

[cypherdoc]

The dollars which came from someone that owed them back, isn't owed back by you. It's owed back by the borrower.

yes in normal times.  but since 1913 the Fed has gradually relaxed this rule allowing a slow decline in the value of the USD to "help" Wall St.  the mirror image of this is inflation.  but since 2007, the Fed has ENORMOUSLY violated this rule by in fact permanently buying bad collateral (loans) from its member banks.

You mean it has had a relaxed policy on the repayment if loans?

yes the bastard Bernanke initially said all the bad loans the Fed took from the banks in return for printed money back in 2008 were supposed to be temporary loans.  this in fact has morphed into an outright Buy and now those loans are payable by the US Treasury which means the US taxpayer.  this is why your USD is shit.  evidence of this is on the Balance Sheet of the Fed i provided above which show a big fat zero for repurchase agreements which would have been the category these bad loans would have been placed.  instead you see all those bad MBS loans in Securities Held Outright which means he made us buy them.

[MatthewLM]

The US Treasury paying the federal reserve for the loans it gives out which aren't proper loans anymore.

Could it get any worse?

"your USD"

I don't have any USD. I have GBP and investments in certain securities. Looking to make investments into bitcoin with a trading algorithm I have not finished yet.

The banks that are "members" or whatever get dividends from the system right? The government stops the federal reserve from keeping all the printed money for itself and forces it to lend and relend, yet allows some profit from the system? Why doesn't the new money go into the net assets, it becomes a liability as well somehow?

I'm getting a bit confused.

[bitrebel]

The dollars which came from someone that owed them back, isn't owed back by you. It's owed back by the borrower.

yes in normal times.  but since 1913 the Fed has gradually relaxed this rule allowing a slow decline in the value of the USD to "help" Wall St.  the mirror image of this is inflation.  but since 2007, the Fed has ENORMOUSLY violated this rule by in fact permanently buying bad collateral (loans) from its member banks.

You mean it has had a relaxed policy on the repayment if loans?

The simple fact of the matter is, ...that borrower is the person who holds those federal reserve notes. Since the notes are borrowed.

[bitrebel]

and if the US Dollar has value and is not, in fact, debt....
then, can anyone explain to me how the us debt clock http://www.usdebtclock.org claims this?

You are still spouting nonsense in between your otherwise valid comments. The US dollar is not equivalent to debt. They are different things. A man with a bank account of $10,000 is NOT in an identical financial position to a man with a bank account of -$10,000. Your theory suggests that dollars=equal debt, and thus the two men are equivalent. That doesn't pass the straight-face test, let alone the more important test of reason. Dollars have value because you can exchange them for things. Will that be true in 10 years? Maybe not. But right now, they have value. They are not debt. They are assets of the bearer (but yes - depreciating assets).

Consider if the US was still on a gold standard, so that dollars were fixed to gold. The US Gov could STILL be trillions of dollars in debt, and we could still see the US Debt Clock in much the same manner. Your example is silly.

Thankfully, under a gold standard, a huge debt would encourage gold reserves to leave the country, thus curtailing the debt (this is why gov's don't like gold standards).

You are wrong. Sorry to be the one to point it out for you.
A person who holds $10,000 in federal reserve notes, holds $10,000 in debt, and owes taxes on that sum.
A person owes $10,000 in just in deeper debt, that's all.

Person A must rid himself of his obligations in order to not hold that debt.
Person B must acquire $10,000 in debt and use it to discharge his $10,000 debt that is already owed.

Both person A and Person B are $10,000 in debt, the only difference is, Person A has the $10,000 to pay it back.