The Biggest Pyramid Scheme Ever Devised!

[bitrebel]

The US Treasury paying the federal reserve for the loans it gives out which aren't proper loans anymore.

Could it get any worse?

"your USD"

I don't have any USD. I have GBP and investments in certain securities. Looking to make investments into bitcoin with a trading algorithm I have not finished yet.

The banks that are "members" or whatever get dividends from the system right? The government stops the federal reserve from keeping all the printed money for itself and forces it to lend and relend, yet allows some profit from the system? Why doesn't the new money go into the net assets, it becomes a liability as well somehow?

I'm getting a bit confused.

Look at it this way.....since the Rothschilds got the monopoly on central and private banking, all money created today by them, is created as a loan or extension of their credit. All governments borrow from them, through the IMF. All money used today, must therefore accrue interest which must be paid back to them. So, therefore all money today, is actually "debt".

The only way to break that cycle, is for a living, breathing, real man, to use his own signature to extend his own credit into the system. That becomes a (+) injected in, instead of a (-), which all money currently falls under. It's all debits, instead of credits. It's that simple.

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[MatthewLM]

Hold on, the federal reserve balance sheet has the printed money down as a liability? What the heck? I guess this is just window dressing lies?

Apparently the Bank of England also owns some of the federal reserve in the US. :O

Is this true.

The Rothschilds group makes profit on this scam?

Some people say all the profits from the federal reserve go to the Us treasury. Heh, if that were true, why make money on the US treasury just to give it back?

It gets weirder and weirder the more you look at it.

[bitrebel]

Hold on, the federal reserve balance sheet has the printed money down as a liability? What the heck? I guess this is just window dressing lies?

Apparently the Bank of England also owns some of the federal reserve in the US. :O

Is this true.

The Rothschilds group makes profit on this scam?

Some people say all the profits from the federal reserve go to the Us treasury. Heh, if that were true, why make money on the US treasury just to give it back?

It gets weirder and weirder the more you look at it.

I've been looking closely at it, for nearly 20 years now. Yes, it is weird, but not if you understand it.
Most people are just not awake to it yet.

[MatthewLM]

But you are saying that the US treasury doesn't take all the profits which was made mostly from the US treasury?

[cypherdoc]

But you are saying that the US treasury doesn't take all the profits which was made mostly from the US treasury?

look, we can't teach you the complexities of economics on this thread alone.  you will have to do alot of reading and studying on your own time if you want to understand what money is.  it takes a LONG time and this thread is getting too long too.

i would start by reading the Creature From Jekyll Island by G. Edward Griffin and then move to Mises.org for an understanding of the gold standard.

[MatthewLM]

I understand gold as money. I don't understand the million complexities of the federal reserve.

[cypherdoc]

I understand gold as money. I don't understand the million complexities of the federal reserve.

listen to the Khan Academy video i posted up for you.  if you understand how the Feds balance sheet works then you're golden.

FRN's are liabilities (Right side) backed by US Treasuries (left side=assets) which are debt backed by the sweat equity of the US taxpayer.  the asset side used to be gold (hard currency).  thats all you need to know.

[evoorhees]

A person who holds $10,000 in federal reserve notes, holds $10,000 in debt, and owes taxes on that sum.

That is patently false. Please point out ANY law, stipulation, legislation, court order, or even an op-ed that suggests one owes taxes on money he/she already possesses. You get taxed on income, yes, but once you have $10,000 after that income taxation, it is YOURS and nobody has a claim to it.

Did Alex Jones tell you this?!

[MatthewLM]

If the new money is a liability, who is it a liability to? I think it's actually a fake liability to hide the masses of new money they make. A form of window dressing. But am I right. The money is owed to the government or something? That would make it even more insane and complicated.

[bitrebel]

A person who holds $10,000 in federal reserve notes, holds $10,000 in debt, and owes taxes on that sum.

That is patently false. Please point out ANY law, stipulation, legislation, court order, or even an op-ed that suggests one owes taxes on money he/she already possesses. You get taxed on income, yes, but once you have $10,000 after that income taxation, it is YOURS and nobody has a claim to it.

Did Alex Jones tell you this?!

Goofy...the $10,000 IS THE TAX, as it must be returned to the Treasury. When it's returned, that a Tax Return.

[cypherdoc]

If the new money is a liability, who is it a liability to? I think it's actually a fake liability to hide the masses of new money they make. A form of window dressing. But am I right. The money is owed to the government or something? That would make it even more insane and complicated.

its confusing b/c its a circle jerk.  US Treasury issues debt which is then monetized by Fed printing which means the new USD are backed by that same UST debt which the issuance of devalues the printed USD's. 

this is why the avg person doesn't understand money.

[evoorhees]

Goofy...the $10,000 IS THE TAX, as it must be returned to the Treasury. When it's returned, that a Tax Return.

LOL and please tell me, when exactly do I need to return my $10,000 to the treasury? Which agency, or court, is going to order me to do so?

[bitrebel]

Goofy...the $10,000 IS THE TAX, as it must be returned to the Treasury. When it's returned, that a Tax Return.

LOL and please tell me, when exactly do I need to return my $10,000 to the treasury? Which agency, or court, is going to order me to do so?

It's borrowed money. If it does not return to the Fed before you die, it's collected afterwards. Eventually, it goes back to the Fed, because it's theirs, not yours.

[skyhigh]

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Lots of winners in this thread. Carry on.

[PCRon]

But you are saying that the US treasury doesn't take all the profits which was made mostly from the US treasury?

http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/8799/dollarpyramidscheme.jpg

look, we can't teach you the complexities of economics on this thread alone.  you will have to do alot of reading and studying on your own time if you want to understand what money is.  it takes a LONG time and this thread is getting too long too.

i would start by reading the Creature From Jekyll Island by G. Edward Griffin and then move to Mises.org for an understanding of the gold standard.

But it's backed by the full faith and credit of the USA... That all you need to know.  What could possibly be wrong with that?

[Mr2001]

It's borrowed money. If it does not return to the Fed before you die, it's collected afterwards. Eventually, it goes back to the Fed, because it's theirs, not yours.

It's collected afterwards? When, and by whom?

If you're referring to taxes, doesn't that mean a gold-backed currency is also "borrowed money" since you still have to pay taxes with it?

[bitrebel]

It's borrowed money. If it does not return to the Fed before you die, it's collected afterwards. Eventually, it goes back to the Fed, because it's theirs, not yours.

It's collected afterwards? When, and by whom?

If you're referring to taxes, doesn't that mean a gold-backed currency is also "borrowed money" since you still have to pay taxes with it?

It's an accounting system. There are no dollars in fact. There are debits and credits, and some debits are represented by those FRNs. If one is burned, or destroyed, the system adjusts itself, because at the end of the day, all accounts are "zero".

The fact that you have been left with a few of those pieces of paper is not an issue. One day they will be spent, and when they are spent, they are headed back to the Federal Reserve.

Second point, the gold question.
No, the congress, authorized to coin money, would use the gold to back the fiat currency, making it somewhat stable and insured. Currently, the public Treasury borrows from the private fed.


Wiki
A double-entry bookkeeping system is a set of rules for recording financial information in a financial accounting system in which every transaction or event changes at least two different nominal ledger accounts.

The name derives from the fact that financial information used to be recorded using pen and ink in paper books - hence "bookkeeping" (whereas now it's recorded mainly in computer systems) and that these books were called journals and ledgers (hence nominal ledger, etc.) - and that each transaction was recorded twice (hence "double-entry"), with the two transactions being called a "debit" and a "credit".

It was first codified in the 15th century. In modern accounting this is done using debits and credits within the accounting equation: Equity = Assets - Liabilities. The accounting equation serves as an error detection system: if at any point the sum of debits does not equal the corresponding sum of credits, an error has occurred. It follows that the sum of debits and credits must be equal. --

(Federal Reserve Keeps a Double Entry Bookeeping system)

[Mr2001]

It's an accounting system. There are no dollars in fact. There are debits and credits, and some debits are represented by those FRNs. If one is burned, or destroyed, the system adjusts itself, because at the end of the day, all accounts are "zero".

The fact that you have been left with a few of those pieces of paper is not an issue. One day they will be spent, and when they are spent, they are headed back to the Federal Reserve.

So, in other words, you have no answer? You said those dollars are "theirs, not yours"... except you never actually have to give them back. You can spend them, giving them to someone else, and they don't have to give them back to the Federal Reserve either. "If it does not return to the Fed before you die, it's collected afterwards"... over a period of decades or centuries, as they change hands over and over and over and a fraction of them are paid in taxes each time (just like they would be if they were backed by gold).

Don't you think it's a little dishonest to throw around loaded phrases like "borrowed money" and "theirs, not yours" when the actual meaning you have in mind is so tame?

[bitrebel]

It's an accounting system. There are no dollars in fact. There are debits and credits, and some debits are represented by those FRNs. If one is burned, or destroyed, the system adjusts itself, because at the end of the day, all accounts are "zero".

The fact that you have been left with a few of those pieces of paper is not an issue. One day they will be spent, and when they are spent, they are headed back to the Federal Reserve.

So, in other words, you have no answer? You said those dollars are "theirs, not yours"... except you never actually have to give them back. You can spend them, giving them to someone else, and they don't have to give them back to the Federal Reserve either. "If it does not return to the Fed before you die, it's collected afterwards"... over a period of decades or centuries, as they change hands over and over and over and a fraction of them are paid in taxes each time (just like they would be if they were backed by gold).

Don't you think it's a little dishonest to throw around loaded phrases like "borrowed money" and "theirs, not yours" when the actual meaning you have in mind is so tame?

You are either uneducated about money or you are arguing for the sake of argument. I'm done trying to help you understand.

[bitrebel]

http://lonerangersilver.wordpress.com/2011/04/11/u-s-treasuries-ponzi-scheme-ex-pboc-official/

U.S. Treasuries ‘Ponzi scheme’: ex-PBOC official
April 11, 2011
From Market Watch
By Chris Oliver

HONG KONG (MarketWatch) — A former adviser to China’s central bank said on Monday that China should have retreated from the U.S. government-bond market and instead allowed the yuan to appreciate more freely, warning that U.S. sovereign debt was akin to a giant Ponzi scheme, according to a newswire report that cited an editorial on Caixin Media Group’s website. Yu Yongding, a former member of the People’s Bank of China monetary-policy committee and now a member of a state-run policy group, said allowing appreciation of the yuan against the U.S. dollar under a free-floating currency regime would have reduced China’s need to acquire U.S. Treasuries. He likened the U.S. Treasury market to a “giant Ponzi scheme,” arguing that Federal Reserve buying of Treasuries has artificially kept bond prices high, but that they would eventually fall to levels which reflected fundamentals of the U.S. economy.