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Author Topic: AI has beaten top poker professionals  (Read 501 times)
kryptorian
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January 29, 2018, 07:12:16 PM
Merited by Heisenberg_Hunter (1)
 #81

the way to beat AI is do the opposite on how you bet

How are going to do this? Can give more explanation here? Because what I know, AI is only things that people made so if the programmer do not input really hard thing into AI, then there is nothing to be scared of. The only matter if pro programmer which can input many things for that bot and let him learn everything that pro players have, from their gesture and everything then it can't be beaten and poker games will be ended in really bad way

I'm sorry to say it but AI is not a bot, it is not a program either, conceptually. By the way, AI means artificial intelligence, and while it is definitely artificial, it is intelligence nonetheless. It does things which are not coded in it because you don't code it like you code a program. Essentially, it is a neural network where links between individual neurons are not set beforehand. The are set and removed when AI learns and it can learn pretty much constantly if it needs to adjust and adapt as in the poker tournament discussed here.
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January 29, 2018, 07:32:53 PM
 #82

Am sure the AI model has been feed with all sorts of scenarios and the best possible moves to play but i hope this wasn't based on one game
the way to beat AI is do the opposite on how you bet
lol what is the probability of winning if this strategy is used

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January 30, 2018, 08:48:43 AM
 #83

I don't want to play against someone who doesn't care about paying his bills while playing poker. AI seems to be that kind of emotionless opponent. It is so hard to bluff AI. Ya, you can win one or two hands but in the long run, you will run out of diverse patterns while AI will be learning and improving with your every move. Not only that AI will have the access to millions of hands played by other people in that very specific scenario which is enough to beat f normal players like me.
But again there are chess engines who can beat even top-class grandmasters but still in the real world you have to play against only live human being.
So, yes in the world of online poker it is very hard to determine if you are playing against AI or real player but I don't think in live poker matches it will be a big deal.

I looked through the whole thread and everyone seems to be whining about AI defeating mankind in the next field of human activity, poker this time. But what about one AI playing against another? As I got it from the thread, poker is different from chess because the latter is called a perfect-information game while the former not so perfect. My idea is that it should be a lot more fun to watch one machine playing against another, especially if all tricks, deceits and bluff that human beings are so proud of are implemented and allowed!

So could one machine actually deceive another?

I do not think that they is playing that way, by decieving any player, I do not think they even have the abilities to do that. You know that AI is a robot, which is the designer can always put every information on each AI to have more information about each pro players here. So as long as they can make an AI to have big memory so they will keep every data on it and can beat everyone in just a second, because they memorize every pattern that you have. May be different pattern will do but the chance of winning is still too small

I don't have a lot of experience and profound knowledge into the operation of AI systems but they definitely don't work the way you describe. AI is not a robot, it doesn't have a specific algo or program that was coded into it. AI works pretty much like human brain does, and it should be taught first before it can do anything intelligible. But I understand what you mean and this is exactly what I'm asking. Could it have some moral value or judgment after it invents a trick or deceit? Or will it be yet another sequence of moves leading to a state which we humans proudly call victory?

But people can code it anyway with so many conditions and with this so many conditions and probability things that make the AI keep learning and get a lot of experience so they can win against pro players. Since when player can beat on AI? And I believe there is no way people want to compete with some AI in a big tournament, this will be meaningless because in the end they will lose it. I think it is not easy to win an AI with really complicated mode on it and I am sure pro players will be proud if they win it

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January 30, 2018, 09:38:14 PM
 #84

I don't want to play against someone who doesn't care about paying his bills while playing poker. AI seems to be that kind of emotionless opponent. It is so hard to bluff AI. Ya, you can win one or two hands but in the long run, you will run out of diverse patterns while AI will be learning and improving with your every move. Not only that AI will have the access to millions of hands played by other people in that very specific scenario which is enough to beat f normal players like me.
But again there are chess engines who can beat even top-class grandmasters but still in the real world you have to play against only live human being.
So, yes in the world of online poker it is very hard to determine if you are playing against AI or real player but I don't think in live poker matches it will be a big deal.

I looked through the whole thread and everyone seems to be whining about AI defeating mankind in the next field of human activity, poker this time. But what about one AI playing against another? As I got it from the thread, poker is different from chess because the latter is called a perfect-information game while the former not so perfect. My idea is that it should be a lot more fun to watch one machine playing against another, especially if all tricks, deceits and bluff that human beings are so proud of are implemented and allowed!

So could one machine actually deceive another?

I do not think that they is playing that way, by decieving any player, I do not think they even have the abilities to do that. You know that AI is a robot, which is the designer can always put every information on each AI to have more information about each pro players here. So as long as they can make an AI to have big memory so they will keep every data on it and can beat everyone in just a second, because they memorize every pattern that you have. May be different pattern will do but the chance of winning is still too small

I don't have a lot of experience and profound knowledge into the operation of AI systems but they definitely don't work the way you describe. AI is not a robot, it doesn't have a specific algo or program that was coded into it. AI works pretty much like human brain does, and it should be taught first before it can do anything intelligible. But I understand what you mean and this is exactly what I'm asking. Could it have some moral value or judgment after it invents a trick or deceit? Or will it be yet another sequence of moves leading to a state which we humans proudly call victory?

But people can code it anyway with so many conditions and with this so many conditions and probability things that make the AI keep learning and get a lot of experience so they can win against pro players. Since when player can beat on AI? And I believe there is no way people want to compete with some AI in a big tournament, this will be meaningless because in the end they will lose it. I think it is not easy to win an AI with really complicated mode on it and I am sure pro players will be proud if they win it

If you think that AI is a sort of complicated program with millions or even billions if-then operators, then you are probably right, in a sense. It can in fact be represented in this manner at any given point in time when it operates. But what you are missing in the whole picture is that the code structure is not a result of some effort done by a big team of developers but what is called machine learning. The most important thing here is that "code" representing AI is dynamic and can be changed on the fly depending on the data received by it. You don't code AI like you code a regular program. Formally, AI is not even a computer, though it can simulated on a typical desktop computer but it will be devastatingly slow and "unintelligent".
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February 17, 2018, 08:22:17 PM
 #85

I don't want to play against someone who doesn't care about paying his bills while playing poker. AI seems to be that kind of emotionless opponent. It is so hard to bluff AI. Ya, you can win one or two hands but in the long run, you will run out of diverse patterns while AI will be learning and improving with your every move. Not only that AI will have the access to millions of hands played by other people in that very specific scenario which is enough to beat f normal players like me.
But again there are chess engines who can beat even top-class grandmasters but still in the real world you have to play against only live human being.
So, yes in the world of online poker it is very hard to determine if you are playing against AI or real player but I don't think in live poker matches it will be a big deal.

I looked through the whole thread and everyone seems to be whining about AI defeating mankind in the next field of human activity, poker this time. But what about one AI playing against another? As I got it from the thread, poker is different from chess because the latter is called a perfect-information game while the former not so perfect. My idea is that it should be a lot more fun to watch one machine playing against another, especially if all tricks, deceits and bluff that human beings are so proud of are implemented and allowed!

So could one machine actually deceive another?

At present computers lack originality and random variation.  Famously computers cannot be trusted to be used in lottery schemes because its too easy to engineer or scheme the results they produce, many multi million dollar schemes result to natural variation in results.  Ultimately computers only do what they are told, AI is very much behind in what it should be doing so Im not convinced they would do well in poker especially.

https://thewest.com.au/news/offbeat/how-computer-programmer-eddie-tipton-rigged-lotteries-around-the-us-for-a-2-million-score-ng-b88573886z

Computers could alter their choices but it would always end up predictable and not a safe way to earn an advantage.   A good program could beat a poor player at least as a standing advantage as the person will learn, so its possible 1 program could be superior over another in some way I guess.

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