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Author Topic: AI has beaten top poker professionals  (Read 515 times)
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December 19, 2017, 10:03:17 AM
 #1

It seems that poker has finally fallen the next victim to insatiable and unstoppable AI, after chess and go world champions were defeated in the past. Poker seems to have been a more difficult problem for AI to solve than the games mentioned, primarily due to hidden information as well as bluffing, but now it's over for human beings. An AI developed by researchers was successful in defeating top professionals at No-limit Texas Hold’em, which is thought to be one of the most challenging types of poker. If anyone is interested who played for the mankind, the players were Jason Les, Dong Kim, Daniel McCauley and Jimmy Chou, though I'm not sure if these names are telling you anything.

Here're the links to the popular-science article and actual paper in Science magazine.
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December 19, 2017, 10:06:45 AM
 #2

I've never heard of any of these professionals, I want to see it beat Phil Ivey and Tom Dwan.


           
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December 19, 2017, 10:57:27 AM
 #3

I think it was only a matter of time. The development in AI in the past years was overwhelming but this is only the beginning. Imagine where we will be in 10-20 years?! There will possibly an AI for almost every task we can imagine... these are exciting times!  Shocked
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December 19, 2017, 11:34:35 AM
 #4

It seems that poker has finally fallen the next victim to insatiable and unstoppable AI, after chess and go world champions were defeated in the past. Poker seems to have been a more difficult problem for AI to solve that the games mentioned, primarily due to hidden information as well as bluffing, but now it's over for human beings. An AI developed by researchers was successful in defeating top professionals at No-limit Texas Hold’em, which is thought to be one of the most challenging types of poker. If anyone is interested who played for mankind, the players were Jason Les, Dong Kim, Daniel McCauley and Jimmy Chou, though I'm not sure if these names are telling you anything.

Here're the links to the popular-science article and actual article in Science magazine.

I am not surprised with this, as humans even professionals will feel emotion.

Also poker players study their opponents mannerism and movement but with if their rival is an  AI they will only rely on their risk management.

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December 19, 2017, 12:01:33 PM
 #5

I've never heard of any of these professionals, I want to see it beat Phil Ivey and Tom Dwan.
Doug Polk and his friends (Jason Les, Dong Kim) are amoung the best HU poker players of the world. They beat Ivey and Dwan.
Now AI beat the best poker player on HU (2 players). It was just a question of time.

We are waiting for AI to move to 6-max poker and to beat some of the best players (like OTB Red Baron). But it'll be more difficult to reach the Nash equilibrium (game theory) with 6 players than it was for 2.
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December 19, 2017, 12:10:32 PM
 #6

I've never heard of any of these professionals, I want to see it beat Phil Ivey and Tom Dwan.

Yup, me too.  I think those guys are some of the pros that play the 50/100 NLHE tables on stars when they run.  And I agree on Ivey and Dwan, but the guy I'd like to see play is Victor Vlom.  I wanna see how the bot reacts vs him.

I've never heard of any of these professionals, I want to see it beat Phil Ivey and Tom Dwan.
Doug Polk and his friends (Jason Les, Dong Kim) are amoung the best HU poker players of the world. They beat Ivey and Dwan.
Now AI beat the best poker player on HU (2 players). It was just a question of time.

We are waiting for AI to move to 6-max poker and to beat some of the best players (like OTB Red Baron). But it'll be more difficult to reach the Nash equilibrium (game theory) with 6 players than it was for 2.

Even better than Jungleman or Vlom?  Sorry...  I haven't been in touch with the poker world for years now.  Smiley

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December 19, 2017, 01:45:02 PM
 #7

I should also add that Libratus, the AI in question, wasn't using any "bluff analysis" or whatever it is called. It played exclusively by the preset rules of the game, just like it played chess or go, the so-called "perfect-information" games. And it still was able to defeat the reigning poker champions hands down. As the article says, Libratus was able to "master a game where bluffing is a core, necessary component".
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December 19, 2017, 01:49:05 PM
 #8

AI will take over lots of things in future and it has  already started although can't understand whole bunch of technical words and description on article.

Quote
Libratus presents an approach that effectively addresses the challenge of game-theoretic reasoning under hidden information in a large state space. The techniques that we developed are largely domain independent and can thus be applied to other strategic imperfect-information interactions, including non-recreational applications. Owing to the ubiquity of hidden information in real-world strategic interactions, we believe the paradigm introduced in Libratus will be important for the future growth and widespread application of AI.
Looks like this AI is not only built for poker or card games.

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December 19, 2017, 01:55:51 PM
 #9

It seems that poker has finally fallen the next victim to insatiable and unstoppable AI, after chess and go world champions were defeated in the past. Poker seems to have been a more difficult problem for AI to solve than the games mentioned, primarily due to hidden information as well as bluffing, but now it's over for human beings. An AI developed by researchers was successful in defeating top professionals at No-limit Texas Hold’em, which is thought to be one of the most challenging types of poker. If anyone is interested who played for the mankind, the players were Jason Les, Dong Kim, Daniel McCauley and Jimmy Chou, though I'm not sure if these names are telling you anything.

Here're the links to the popular-science article and actual paper in Science magazine.
If this is really true and if this gets implemented on a larger scale and things get available to everyone easily, then the future of online gambling will surely be doomed.

However, poker is a form of gambling and how can anyone, be it how intelligent are they can beat someone in game of chance, maybe its just purely luck that the AI has beaten them, but in the longer run, AI cannot always beat the human brain neither can this be true vice-versa.
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December 19, 2017, 11:41:04 PM
 #10

Well I certainly believe that some artificial intelligence could win some hands of poker. But  turn poker you can make absolutely 100 percent the correct and proper move but with the variance in poker you could still lose the bet. What I’m saying is I could see this but being Have a decent playing caliber but there’s no way it’s unbeatable. There’s just certain things  I believe AI Wouldn’t be able to pick up on.


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December 20, 2017, 01:37:34 AM
 #11

They gotta beat 1000 IQ negranu for me to accept that they are good Smiley

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December 20, 2017, 10:14:21 AM
 #12

They gotta beat 1000 IQ negranu for me to accept that they are good Smiley

Lol.  Not sure if serious.  Negeaunu turned out to be one of the weaker poker players after a generation of online players started taking the scene during the mid 2000's.  Guys like Cole South, Brian Townsend and I guess Patrik Antonious and a whole lot of young guns.

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December 20, 2017, 12:09:29 PM
 #13

They gotta beat 1000 IQ negranu for me to accept that they are good Smiley

Lol.  Not sure if serious.  Negeaunu turned out to be one of the weaker poker players after a generation of online players started taking the scene during the mid 2000's.  Guys like Cole South, Brian Townsend and I guess Patrik Antonious and a whole lot of young guns.

I understand what you mean tokeweed But you have to give Daniel a ton of respect for being able to continue to compete, for what like 20 years.Even with all the new Internet wizards and Young Guns that popped up in the 2010’s, I would definitely still consider him a Top caliber poker pro. That being said he does make some really stupid moves sometimes, he just flat out plays himself alot it seems.


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December 20, 2017, 12:47:13 PM
 #14

Boy, Technology are scary things to be honest..
I wont be surprise if they make a real robot that can live like human someday..
I wonder how the AI can catch the techniques in poker, like baiting, and stuff..
the programmer must have done a hell of a great job programming it..
like those chess AI that beat those grandmasters all around the world...
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December 20, 2017, 02:11:00 PM
 #15

It seems that poker has finally fallen the next victim to insatiable and unstoppable AI, after chess and go world champions were defeated in the past. Poker seems to have been a more difficult problem for AI to solve than the games mentioned, primarily due to hidden information as well as bluffing, but now it's over for human beings. An AI developed by researchers was successful in defeating top professionals at No-limit Texas Hold’em, which is thought to be one of the most challenging types of poker. If anyone is interested who played for the mankind, the players were Jason Les, Dong Kim, Daniel McCauley and Jimmy Chou, though I'm not sure if these names are telling you anything.

Here're the links to the popular-science article and actual paper in Science magazine.
If this is really true and if this gets implemented on a larger scale and things get available to everyone easily, then the future of online gambling will surely be doomed.

However, poker is a form of gambling and how can anyone, be it how intelligent are they can beat someone in game of chance, maybe its just purely luck that the AI has beaten them, but in the longer run, AI cannot always beat the human brain neither can this be true vice-versa.

Your comment is just wrong on so many levels.

How will this change the future on online gambling? Maybe online poker, but to say that this has any impact on online gambling in general is just plain stupid.
Slots aren't impacted by this, roulette isn't, etc.

From the first article:
Quote
Over the course of a 20 day competition, with 120,000 poker hands played in total and a prize pool of $200,000, Libratus defeated top human pros

I doubt this is just luck if the bot played for 20 days against these pros.


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December 20, 2017, 03:47:18 PM
 #16

It seems that poker has finally fallen the next victim to insatiable and unstoppable AI, after chess and go world champions were defeated in the past. Poker seems to have been a more difficult problem for AI to solve than the games mentioned, primarily due to hidden information as well as bluffing, but now it's over for human beings. An AI developed by researchers was successful in defeating top professionals at No-limit Texas Hold’em, which is thought to be one of the most challenging types of poker. If anyone is interested who played for the mankind, the players were Jason Les, Dong Kim, Daniel McCauley and Jimmy Chou, though I'm not sure if these names are telling you anything.

Here're the links to the popular-science article and actual paper in Science magazine.
If this is really true and if this gets implemented on a larger scale and things get available to everyone easily, then the future of online gambling will surely be doomed.

However, poker is a form of gambling and how can anyone, be it how intelligent are they can beat someone in game of chance, maybe its just purely luck that the AI has beaten them, but in the longer run, AI cannot always beat the human brain neither can this be true vice-versa.

Your comment is just wrong on so many levels.

How will this change the future on online gambling? Maybe online poker, but to say that this has any impact on online gambling in general is just plain stupid.
Slots aren't impacted by this, roulette isn't, etc.

From the first article:
Quote
Over the course of a 20 day competition, with 120,000 poker hands played in total and a prize pool of $200,000, Libratus defeated top human pros

I doubt this is just luck if the bot played for 20 days against these pros.

Obviously, this is not luck since all moves played by all parties have been properly analyzed. I read across the second article and although I couldn't really understand half of it or even more, the authors specifically point it out that it wasn't luck, absolutely. Long story short, the AI managed to find weaknesses in playing patterns of its human opponents and used them to the full. When the players changed their approach, the AI changed its approach too, and it was always able to find an advantage and take it.
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December 20, 2017, 04:02:35 PM
 #17

It seems that poker has finally fallen the next victim to insatiable and unstoppable AI, after chess and go world champions were defeated in the past. Poker seems to have been a more difficult problem for AI to solve than the games mentioned, primarily due to hidden information as well as bluffing, but now it's over for human beings. An AI developed by researchers was successful in defeating top professionals at No-limit Texas Hold’em, which is thought to be one of the most challenging types of poker. If anyone is interested who played for the mankind, the players were Jason Les, Dong Kim, Daniel McCauley and Jimmy Chou, though I'm not sure if these names are telling you anything.

Here're the links to the popular-science article and actual paper in Science magazine.

This is good - it's showing that everybody could improve and even the poker pro's are making mistakes and can be exploited.

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December 20, 2017, 04:41:37 PM
 #18

I ever read that now it is possible for some bot to win against pro poker gambler. Last time winners already lose by them easily, they calculate everything like the deck, gameplay and even recognize your face when make a move here. There is nonway to cheat on them because it is like a perfect solution for them. If I not mistaken the name is libratus which is really good on defeated pro player. But I do not know if the bot against each other who is the winner

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December 20, 2017, 05:48:27 PM
 #19

Interesting, but I guess it is the next frontier for it. Probably will next beat all casinos, since in online gambling there is really no "true random" because all numbers are actually just generated using a code that tries to simulate random numbers. I guess it is possible that an AI could break this code and be able to predict the next number. Well, that would give gambling sites a run for their money.
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December 20, 2017, 11:38:23 PM
 #20

From an AI point of view, with billion lots of possible combinations. It can clearly predict probable patterns on what the next card to get. It is still an unfair in level of playing field if we use AI against human to play that kind of game. Maybe someday we the humans could just be an spectator of the poker games where machine vs machine are the real players.

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