Lightning Network vs Bitcoin cash

[Taras]

The bitcoin code base / protocol was complete years ago and needed no other genius proof of dev any more like E=mc^2 does not need to be bubbled up by other fellows any more.

And thus, you show your ignorance of physics, too.  E=mc^2 is the equation for the rest energy of matter.  Got velocity?  A more complicated equation is required to ascertain E.

[...]

Sure, go learn more physics but the genuis part is done by Einstein and yet we are years later and still try to prove parts. Dont come up with all the rest here or could you solve the rest with pure men power (as you do now with btc + SW + ...) ?

Satoshi did the genius part (by introducing artificial order = energy = negativ entropy) and there is no need to extend it with extra kinetics..  and dilute the genius order.

Think big and accept that BCH will work better also because its simpler.

Oh, my.  Somebody “learned” from “science popularizers”, then combined that miseducation with a heaping dose of New Age woo.  “artificial order = energy = negativ entropy”?  “extra kinetics”?  With all the quack pseudoscience pseudo-jargon flying about, next we will hear that quantum mechanics proves we have entered the Age of Aquarius.

Quantum mechanics also proves that I have psychic powers; and my psychic powers tell me that you are an imbecile.

Every time I feel I need a short break, I pop in here and see if this thread was updated with more stupidity.  If so, I take a swing at one of Ver’s hapless little drones.  That takes less effort than hitting a punching bag; and it’s more satisfying than shooting literal fish in a barrel.

Gosh, I just don't know.

I've never tried to shoot literal fish in a barrel.

Adjusting aim for refraction is not a problem.

How about big fish, little barrel?

Try a shotgun.  Sawed-off.

Nah, still not as fun as smacking down bcash shills and sycophants.

Which itself is not so rewarding as the spiritual solace brought by founding my own cult, ϐ bitcult.faith ϐ.  All hail the god of Bitcoin.

Sure, go learn more physics but the genuis part is done by Einstein and yet we are years later and still try to prove parts. Dont come up with all the rest here or could you solve the rest with pure men power (as you do now with btc + SW + ...) ?

Satoshi did the genius part (by introducing artificial order = energy = negativ entropy) and there is no need to extend it with extra kinetics..  and dilute the genius order.

Think big and accept that BCH will work better also because its simpler.

Huh?
Why shouldn't we make transaction malleability avoidable and then make use of the powers of bitcoin script that Satoshi had designed? Using opcodes that Satoshi conceived but didn't personally use is too complicated?

Taras, per the above, you are arguing with somebody who just proved that negativ [sic] entropy brought us into the Age of Aquarius!  Humble yourself.  Don’t you dare presume to question the wisdom of a guru.

Nullius I love everything that you say.

Does anybody knows if there're short term plan by the official BTC developer team

I didn't know there was an "official" BTC developement team.  

Who had the authority to appoint them.  

Developers work in their own source code trees, and their changes are merged into the main codebase after they have been discussed and tested by other developers. The nodes all use this software and will continue to as long as they agree with the developers' work. So, you could say they are universally appointed by the nodes.

[Spendulus]

The bitcoin code base / protocol was complete years ago and needed no other genius proof of dev any more like E=mc^2 does not need to be bubbled up by other fellows any more.

And thus, you show your ignorance of physics, too.  E=mc^2 is the equation for the rest energy of matter.  Got velocity?  A more complicated equation is required to ascertain E.

[...]

Sure, go learn more physics but the genuis part is done by Einstein and yet we are years later and still try to prove parts. Dont come up with all the rest here or could you solve the rest with pure men power (as you do now with btc + SW + ...) ?

Satoshi did the genius part (by introducing artificial order = energy = negativ entropy) and there is no need to extend it with extra kinetics..  and dilute the genius order.

Think big and accept that BCH will work better also because its simpler.

Oh, my.  Somebody “learned” from “science popularizers”, then combined that miseducation with a heaping dose of New Age woo.  “artificial order = energy = negativ entropy”?  “extra kinetics”?  With all the quack pseudoscience pseudo-jargon flying about, next we will hear that quantum mechanics proves we have entered the Age of Aquarius.

Quantum mechanics also proves that I have psychic powers; and my psychic powers tell me that you are an imbecile.

Every time I feel I need a short break, I pop in here and see if this thread was updated with more stupidity.  If so, I take a swing at one of Ver’s hapless little drones.  That takes less effort than hitting a punching bag; and it’s more satisfying than shooting literal fish in a barrel.

Gosh, I just don't know.

I've never tried to shoot literal fish in a barrel.

Adjusting aim for refraction is not a problem.

How about big fish, little barrel?

Try a shotgun.  Sawed-off.

Nah, still not as fun as smacking down bcash shills and sycophants.

Which itself is not so rewarding as the spiritual solace brought by founding my own cult, ϐ bitcult.faith ϐ.  All hail the god of Bitcoin.

Sure, go learn more physics but the genuis part is done by Einstein and yet we are years later and still try to prove parts. Dont come up with all the rest here or could you solve the rest with pure men power (as you do now with btc + SW + ...) ?

Satoshi did the genius part (by introducing artificial order = energy = negativ entropy) and there is no need to extend it with extra kinetics..  and dilute the genius order.

Think big and accept that BCH will work better also because its simpler.

Huh?
Why shouldn't we make transaction malleability avoidable and then make use of the powers of bitcoin script that Satoshi had designed? Using opcodes that Satoshi conceived but didn't personally use is too complicated?

Taras, per the above, you are arguing with somebody who just proved that negativ [sic] entropy brought us into the Age of Aquarius!  Humble yourself.  Don’t you dare presume to question the wisdom of a guru.

I'm thinking if we spin that barrel, then we're barreling well outside the bounds of Einstein's theories, which didn't deal with torsion and centrifugal forces. You could say we are fishing in the Fourth Dimension, to get teknikal.  So this Aquarius barrel spinning at the right speed has time space warping inside and this moves the fish all to the barrel sides and at the right side they warp out one at a time.

Note the One at a time. That's clearly a quantum phenomena hence we've not got quantum physics as the causation factor.

And you already know what's coming next. String theory. We gonna catch those fish on a string.

[hv_]

The bitcoin code base / protocol was complete years ago and needed no other genius proof of dev any more like E=mc^2 does not need to be bubbled up by other fellows any more.

And thus, you show your ignorance of physics, too.  E=mc^2 is the equation for the rest energy of matter.  Got velocity?  A more complicated equation is required to ascertain E.

[...]

Sure, go learn more physics but the genuis part is done by Einstein and yet we are years later and still try to prove parts. Dont come up with all the rest here or could you solve the rest with pure men power (as you do now with btc + SW + ...) ?

Satoshi did the genius part (by introducing artificial order = energy = negativ entropy) and there is no need to extend it with extra kinetics..  and dilute the genius order.

Think big and accept that BCH will work better also because its simpler.

Oh, my.  Somebody “learned” from “science popularizers”, then combined that miseducation with a heaping dose of New Age woo.  “artificial order = energy = negativ entropy”?  “extra kinetics”?  With all the quack pseudoscience pseudo-jargon flying about, next we will hear that quantum mechanics proves we have entered the Age of Aquarius.

Quantum mechanics also proves that I have psychic powers; and my psychic powers tell me that you are an imbecile.

Every time I feel I need a short break, I pop in here and see if this thread was updated with more stupidity.  If so, I take a swing at one of Ver’s hapless little drones.  That takes less effort than hitting a punching bag; and it’s more satisfying than shooting literal fish in a barrel.

Gosh, I just don't know.

I've never tried to shoot literal fish in a barrel.

Adjusting aim for refraction is not a problem.

How about big fish, little barrel?

Try a shotgun.  Sawed-off.

Nah, still not as fun as smacking down bcash shills and sycophants.

Which itself is not so rewarding as the spiritual solace brought by founding my own cult, ϐ bitcult.faith ϐ.  All hail the god of Bitcoin.

Sure, go learn more physics but the genuis part is done by Einstein and yet we are years later and still try to prove parts. Dont come up with all the rest here or could you solve the rest with pure men power (as you do now with btc + SW + ...) ?

Satoshi did the genius part (by introducing artificial order = energy = negativ entropy) and there is no need to extend it with extra kinetics..  and dilute the genius order.

Think big and accept that BCH will work better also because its simpler.

Huh?
Why shouldn't we make transaction malleability avoidable and then make use of the powers of bitcoin script that Satoshi had designed? Using opcodes that Satoshi conceived but didn't personally use is too complicated?

Taras, per the above, you are arguing with somebody who just proved that negativ [sic] entropy brought us into the Age of Aquarius!  Humble yourself.  Don’t you dare presume to question the wisdom of a guru.

As I already said up thread stay on btc and troll there .

Genius cast the things into very simple order / formular (PoW electronic cash, blockchain, E=mc^2, ...).

Its not for you to understand all at first but you then go experiment a lot with surroundings (SW, +++)  until you might finally get it. Good luck with that.

But in the end we need to thank you and lots of other altcoin builders for this because it is needed to get others educated by the great myspace fall.


Happy new year!

[Anti-Cen]

public static money MaxFee=1.50 // Less miners because not enough cream to go around

That is one of the stupidest ideas I have ever seen in my whole life; and it has plenty of competition between the four corners of this world.

Your reply does compute and you are angry about the price of your coins going down but you should
get out more from the church and read other development forums to see what they are saying instead
of trying to insult people because you lack the skill to debate and don't write code for a living

[Anti-Cen]

Look at the numbers cellard posted!  Do you have a home PC with 32GB spare RAM to dedicate to a Bitcoin node?  Can your home connection pass 99.2GB of daily traffic?  That’s all with full 8MB blocks; and according to Bitfury, all that hardware buys you a whopping 28tps.  It’s still 2 orders of magnitude under the throughput of Paypal, and 3–4 orders of magnitude under that of Visa.

I don’t see any figures here on iops; but I can guess qualitatively.  Got RAIDed enterprise-class SSDs?

Disk space is the smallest problem with big blocks.  Nodes of modest means can prune.  But the above table shows that there would be nothing to prune:  They wouldn’t be able to keep up with the network, or even run without getting hit by the OOM-killer.

(For comparison, the Steem documentation specifies a minimum requirement of 32GB RAM for a Steem node.  Most users simply use steemit.com.  So decentralized.  But it has the magic word, “blockchain”.)

Well said and if you look at LN you will see it uses hubs to break the work down between nodes as was needed from day one for any system to scale
and they can break the block-chain down in the same way but they are too stupid to see it.

The BC is a linked list so take the headerID and just point that to a list of nodes who have the full block details if you don't hold it yourself
so think about it as storing a reference in <LIST> to other objects. Distributed system is not what they do best and no one can argue that
I am wrong because we know the wheels are falling of the current BTC block-chain

Few people like me have seen what starts to happen to a database when you push the size too high and the index
becomes too big to hold in memory and that's with spreading the DB over several drives.
 

[sjefdeklerk]

Lightning nodes are a healthy way to solve centralization issues

How so? Quite the contrary in my opinion, LN equals centralization, it's the only way this can even work. Do you really imagine a world where somebody has 30 hops to another person and the amount of money that can be sent over those 30 hops is  determined by the guy with the lowest amount of money AVAILABLE, for YOUR transaction, in his payment channel ? Come on that's ridiculous! In fact it's one of the most dumbest idea's I've ever even heard, the guy who invented LN must be quite disconnected from reality, smoking too much weed, only some crazy hippy with a distorted world view could come up with something like this.

Reality check: the ONLY way this can even work is if banks will solve that problem and start big nodes. Then the size of your account (behind the scenes this would then be called "payment channel") determines the amount of money you can send, just like it does now in traditional banking.

In fact I opened a topic LN vs Ripple, it got deleted not sure why, but I really wonder what the advantage of bitcoin + LN will be over Ripple and the current banking system. In both scenario's it will be all about banks using block chain infrastructure to facilitate their own banking process. Difference though is that banks are already experimenting with Ripple, while LN hasn't even been released yet, so I figure my self Ripple has a much bigger chance of surviving.

[nokati]

Lightning nodes are a healthy way to solve centralization issues

How so? Quite the contrary in my opinion, LN equals centralization, it's the only way this can even work. Do you really imagine a world where somebody has 30 hops to another person and the amount of money that can be sent over those 30 hops is  determined by the guy with the lowest amount of money AVAILABLE, for YOUR transaction, in his payment channel ? Come on that's ridiculous! In fact it's one of the most dumbest idea's I've ever even heard, the guy who invented LN must be quite disconnected from reality, smoking too much weed, only some crazy hippy with a distorted world view could come up with something like this.

Reality check: the ONLY way this can even work is if banks will solve that problem and start big nodes. Then the size of your account (behind the scenes this would then be called "payment channel") determines the amount of money you can send, just like it does now in traditional banking.

In fact I opened a topic LN vs Ripple, it got deleted not sure why, but I really wonder what the advantage of bitcoin + LN will be over Ripple and the current banking system. In both scenario's it will be all about banks using block chain infrastructure to facilitate their own banking process. Difference though is that banks are already experimenting with Ripple, while LN hasn't even been released yet, so I figure my self Ripple has a much bigger chance of surviving.

And why is al this bullshit comments always from new accounts? Ripple? Seriously? I think that your right about smoking weed, you should stop smoking it.

[sjefdeklerk]

And why is al this bullshit comments always from new accounts? Ripple? Seriously? I think that your right about smoking weed, you should stop smoking it.

Care to elaborate? Or prove me wrong?

[khalized]

Lightning network will always be one step ahead of the curve than Bcash. People like Roger and his army of shills will call it centralized not knowing the actual network topology behind LN.

On one hand, since LN is at its early adoption stage, not everyone realizes the true power it can provide in the long rung. Increasing block size doesn't always solve the scalability problem. Bcash will eventually face problems when large 20MB blocks will be implemented. Nobody except big corporate parties will only run full nodes of bcash at that time. Isn't that centralized, huh?

[sjefdeklerk]

Lightning network will always be one step ahead of the curve than Bcash. People like Roger and his army of shills will call it centralized not knowing the actual network topology behind LN.

Aha, so I must misunderstand something, great, I'm always eager to learn. So how do you imagine that I send a $2000 payment over 30 hops where a guy with only $100 freely available in his account is in the middle ? Or another guy in my route just bought something himself and doesn't even have any money freely available at all ? LN at its core is just a 'chain of lenders' and most people are not really suited as lenders cause, well, they just don't have any money to lend. But I clearly must misunderstand something so I hope you can enlighten me and explain how LN is going to be a DECENTRALIZED success, a network where the little guy is going to lend the big guy tons of money to process his transaction!

[nokati]

And why is al this bullshit comments always from new accounts? Ripple? Seriously? I think that your right about smoking weed, you should stop smoking it.

Care to elaborate? Or prove me wrong?

No, you are a waste of time as you try to compare bank coin to bitcoin.

A) you are a troll
Or
B) you are missing some serious IQ
Or
C) you try just make some advertisements for your bank coin and dont bother what arguments you use.

As I say before always same bullshits from some newly created accounts.

[sjefdeklerk]

And why is al this bullshit comments always from new accounts? Ripple? Seriously? I think that your right about smoking weed, you should stop smoking it.

Care to elaborate? Or prove me wrong?

No, you are a waste of time as you try to compare bank coin to bitcoin.

A) you are a troll
Or
B) you are missing some serious IQ
Or
C) you try just make some advertisements for your bank coin and dont bother what arguments you use.

As I say before always same bullshits from some newly created accounts.

Thanks for all the options, but if you don't have anything actually relevant to add to the discussion and can only post insults, then you might want to move to some other thread.

[nokati]

And why is al this bullshit comments always from new accounts? Ripple? Seriously? I think that your right about smoking weed, you should stop smoking it.

Care to elaborate? Or prove me wrong?

No, you are a waste of time as you try to compare bank coin to bitcoin.

A) you are a troll
Or
B) you are missing some serious IQ
Or
C) you try just make some advertisements for your bank coin and dont bother what arguments you use.

As I say before always same bullshits from some newly created accounts.

Thanks for all the options, but if you don't have anything actually relevant to add to the discussion and can only post insults, then you might want to move to some other thread.

There is nothing wrong with discussing bitcoin anf bitcoin cash as both camp have some good arguments. You dare to mention and  to compare it to centralized bank ripple, its hilarious

But its fine, let see wat this trash coin is;

There will be 100 billion xrp and 60 billion is in de hand of ripple / bank candidates,  If this isn't a deal breaker for you, you should stay at your local bank and font bother cryptocurrency.

Ay any time rippel can cancel and seize my money, sounds familiar? B  A  N  K

I dare anyone to seize my bitcoin! YOU CANT. LOL. ITS MINE.

For love of brain, they work with the banks and you don't like it when people call it a bank coin any time that its you against the bank you are the one that will get screwed. Or do you truly think banks will invest in something that benefit you and harm the bank. Lol its hilarious  



Discusion about bitcoin and bitcoin cash is what this topic is about, about your ripple bank coin just use goggle to find more what a scam this ripple is. Dont waste people's time and hijack this topic to selll bullshit to newbies about your ripple bank coin

[sjefdeklerk]

And why is al this bullshit comments always from new accounts? Ripple? Seriously? I think that your right about smoking weed, you should stop smoking it.

Care to elaborate? Or prove me wrong?

No, you are a waste of time as you try to compare bank coin to bitcoin.

A) you are a troll
Or
B) you are missing some serious IQ
Or
C) you try just make some advertisements for your bank coin and dont bother what arguments you use.

As I say before always same bullshits from some newly created accounts.

Thanks for all the options, but if you don't have anything actually relevant to add to the discussion and can only post insults, then you might want to move to some other thread.

There is nothing wrong with discussing bitcoin anf bitcoin cash as both camp have some good arguments. You dare to mention and  to compare it to centralized bank ripple, its hilarious

But its fine, let see wat this trash coin is;

There will be 100 billion xrp and 60 billion is in de hand of ripple / bank candidates,  If this isn't a deal breaker for you, you should stay at your local bank and font bother cryptocurrency.

Ay any time rippel can cancel and seize my money, sounds familiar? B  A  N  K

I dare anyone to seize my bitcoin! YOU CANT. LOL. ITS MINE.

For love of brain, they work with the banks and you don't like it when people call it a bank coin any time that its you against the bank you are the one that will get screwed. Or do you truly think banks will invest in something that benefit you and harm the bank. Lol its hilarious  



Discusion about bitcoin and bitcoin cash is what this topic is about, about your ripple bank coin just use goggle to find more what a scam this ripple is. Dont waste people's time and hijack this topic to selll bullshit to newbies about your ripple bank coin

My whole point, which you somehow still fail to see, is that bitcoin + lightning network can only succeed as a banking solution too. For the reasons I laid out before, LN can not work as a decentralized solution. That's why you need to compare it to a banking solution like Ripple, not to bitcoin cash, that's really a whole different world, which actually can and does function decentralized.

Either way, I'm not interested in your opinion about Ripple. I'm interested in your vision of how LN could even work decentralized because it seems you still seem to think that. Then again, this might not be the right thread, I'm going to open one especially for this subject.

*EDIT* done: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2679337.new#new

So this topic can be used for comparison between BCH and BTC, although still this is a very important aspect in that discussion too.

[nokati]

Sorry if I insult you, I was truly under impression that it was another ripple troll.

About LN network:
 Not really... Maybe on paper but not in a practical way.
Most of the small buying coffee transactions don't need big nodes having big btc wallets, we have now also big mining farms and also small home miners and it works in harmony to a certain level.

Second thing is and please correct me if I am wrong, you still have the option to chose, If I want to send some real amount I can choose the main chain and nobody can block or censor my transaction.

Keyword is the option that you can choosing what you want and nobody can block your transaction. Its open market and open market will always find his way

[jafu]

With the lightning network transaction, times should be similar to bitcoin. I don't think so how it'll perform with more and more transactions though.

[nokati]

With the lightning network transaction, times should be similar to bitcoin. I don't think so how it'll perform with more and more transactions though.

https://lightning.network

Instant Payments. Lightning-fast blockchain payments without worrying about block confirmation times. Security is enforced by blockchain smart-contracts without creating a on-blockchain transaction for individual payments. Payment speed measured in milliseconds to seconds.

Scalability. Capable of millions to billions of transactions per second across the network. Capacity blows away legacy payment rails by many orders of magnitude. Attaching payment per action/click is now possible without custodians.

Low Cost. By transacting and settling off-blockchain, the Lightning Network allows for exceptionally low fees, which allows for emerging use cases such as instant micropayments.

Cross Blockchains. Cross-chain atomic swaps can occur off-chain instantly with heterogeneous blockchain consensus rules. So long as the chains can support the same cryptographic hash function, it is possible to make transactions across blockchains without trust in 3rd party custodians.

[Spendulus]

With the lightning network transaction, times should be similar to bitcoin. I don't think so how it'll perform with more and more transactions though.

https://lightning.network

Instant Payments. Lightning-fast blockchain payments without worrying about block confirmation times. Security is enforced by blockchain smart-contracts without creating a on-blockchain transaction for individual payments. Payment speed measured in milliseconds to seconds.

Scalability. Capable of millions to billions of transactions per second across the network. Capacity blows away legacy payment rails by many orders of magnitude. Attaching payment per action/click is now possible without custodians.

Low Cost. By transacting and settling off-blockchain, the Lightning Network allows for exceptionally low fees, which allows for emerging use cases such as instant micropayments.

Cross Blockchains. Cross-chain atomic swaps can occur off-chain instantly with heterogeneous blockchain consensus rules. So long as the chains can support the same cryptographic hash function, it is possible to make transactions across blockchains without trust in 3rd party custodians.

It's worth noting that these features are features of a category of mesh network style payment schemes. OF WHICH LN is the one we know about and expect to be implemented.

But such features could be found in many implementations other than LN.

And these could be layered on top of many coins - for example, Bitcoin Cash....not just Bitcoin.

[alko89]

I'm affraid Bitcoin is becoming a patched zombie and it might be time to move most of the coins to some other currency like Monero or PIVX.

[Samarkand]

...

But such features could be found in many implementations other than LN.

And these could be layered on top of many coins - for example, Bitcoin Cash....not just Bitcoin.

I thought SegWit capability was a mandatory requirement for the Lightning Network?
Bitcoin Cash has not activated SegWit. Therefore I don´t think the Lightning Network
would be able to function on top of Bitcoin Cash.

Why would they deploy a solution like the LN anyway? Their whole narrative is based around
how on-chain scaling is the superior solution to scaling Bitcoin. If they would introduce a 2nd layer scaling solution
they would lose their main value proposition.