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Author Topic: Why do most Bitcoiners seem intelligent?  (Read 10464 times)
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August 05, 2013, 02:08:17 PM
 #161

This thread has been around long enough now to remove any concern that Bitcoiners might have above average intelligence.

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August 05, 2013, 02:14:02 PM
 #162

IQ tests have to be the most bullshit way of identifying a persons intelligence I have ever seen, especially the ones that are largely maths problems because not everyone is good at or likes doing maths.

If that's what you believe, then you are free to ignore someone's IQ test score.  No one is saying you should be forced to take someone's IQ test score into consideration, just that it would be nice to have a person's IQ test score available for those of us that disagree with you and believe that IQ test scores are a good measure of intelligence.

Are you really going to judge people's contributions by their IQ, as opposed to what they say? That is very stupid.

Why are you so bothered about what factors I would use to determine the value of someone's contributions?  As long as you are free to decide what factors you take into consideration, why does it matter what factors I take into consideration?

What if someone with a low IQ says something that is provably correct? Is it wrong just because their IQ is low?

Not at all.  If someone with a low IQ told me that 2 + 2 = 4, then I would certainly agree with them.

"It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning."   - Henry Ford
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August 05, 2013, 06:01:35 PM
 #163

The problem with this is, it's hard to figure out whom this applies to. We have two groups, Bitcoiners, and Detractors (trolls, SA goons, etc)

The situation could be any of the following:

  • Bitcoiners are dumb, but think they are smarter than the detractors, and are ignoring the advice of the smart detractors.
  • Detractors are dumb, but think they are smarter than bitcoiners, and are ignoring the advice of the smart bitcoiners.

I think you misinterpret the Dunning-Kruger effect.
You do not have to be dumb to be affected. It's a relative scale.
The smartest people on earth have problems with this phenomenon.
It simply states that people affected will think they are smatrter than they realy are.
It's about thinking you are smarter than you actually are. It's not about being smart or dumb in an absolute way.
Moreover, you synthetically divide the community into 'bitcoiners' and 'detractors' while it's an obvious 'no true scotsman'.

We have two very distinct groups here: people who like bitcoin and support it, and people who dislike bitcoin and think it's stupid. The group that is indifferent is irrelevant, since it simply doesn't participate. I don't see an issue with the 'no true scotsman' here.
Regarding Dunning-Kruger, I wasn't aware that there was a scale to it. From what I understand, it's just a concept where people who are dumb are convincing themselves that they are actually smarter than they truly are, and reject competing ideas from smarter people as stupid. If you didn't understand the issue I was talking about, let me rephrase it:

Bitcoiners, being involved with a digital currency in many different aspects, believe they understand economics, currencies, and finance. Bitcoin detractors, such as SA goons, believe that bitcoin is actually a stupid idea, and that bitcoiners who support it are suffering from a Dunning-Krueger effect, wherein the bitcoiners have convinced themselves that they are smart about finance and econ, when they actually aren't. In this case, bitcoiners are dumb Dunning-Kruger types, and the detractors that accuse them of such are the smart ones.

Conversely, bitcoin detractors, such as SA goods, believe they understand finance, currencies, and economics, and think that bitcoin is a stupid idea. Bitcoiners think that bitcoin is actually a good idea, and that bitcoin detractors are suffering from a Dunning-Kruger effect, wherein the SA goons only think they are smart about finance and econ, but actually aren't. In this case, bitcoin detractors are dumb Dunning-Kruger types (ironically), and bitcoiners that use bitcoin and understand the related finance and econ are the smart ones.

It's not a question of who is smart and who is dumb. It's an issue of bitcoin detractors, such as SA goons, accusing Bitcoiners of suffering from Dunning-Kruger effects, thinking they understand econ and  finance better, when, ironically, they themselves may be the ones suffering from those effects.


As for IQ, it sounds like some of you don't even know what IQ test questions are like. They don't test your knowledge (i.e. you don't need to know algebra, though I knew it since I was 10). You just need to show how well you can conceptualize problems, and how quickly you can process data. A good analogy would be:

A person with a high IQ is like a Quad-Core 3.5Ghz PC. A person with a low IQ is like a single code 1.5Ghz PC. One can process data much faster than the other. Knowledge and skills, on the other hand, is like OS and software. You can stick Windows on the 3.5Ghz PC, and a trimmed-down Linux on the 1.5Ghz PC, and in the end they will both run at about the same speed. The 1.5Ghz PC may even be more capable, depending on software you need to use. So, if you were to sit two people with the same set of skills in front of a logic or concept problem, both will be able to solve it, but the higher IQ one will solve it faster. If you give the problem to an experienced low-IQ person and an inexperienced high-IQ person, the low-IQ person will solve it faster, since the high-IQ person will have to figure it out from scratch. If you give the problem to low and high IQ people who have no prior experience at all, the low-IQ one might never be able to solve it. FYI, I am a lazy bastard, and spent the last two years of highschool getting shit grades and almost never doing homework or studying for exams, but I never got less than a B on tests, simply because I derived most of the exam problems from scratch or bits of memory, instead of studying and memorizing things like my classmates. Out of humility, I'd like to think that I'm not that special, and any one of my classmates could have done the same, but I somehow doubt that.

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August 05, 2013, 06:15:35 PM
 #164

FYI, I am a lazy bastard, and spent the last two years of highschool getting shit grades and almost never doing homework or studying for exams, but I never got less than a B on tests, simply because I derived most of the exam problems from scratch or bits of memory, instead of studying and memorizing things like my classmates. Out of humility, I'd like to think that I'm not that special, and any one of my classmates could have done the same, but I somehow doubt that.

OK.  I totally believe you have a 160 IQ now. Smiley

Seriously, the smarter you are it seems the more bored people are in high school.  In my experience it seems those that have the best grades are the ones in the 120-130 range.   I was just barely above that so my grades were OK but not great.  I did not care that much.  I was shocked when I graduated with honors.  I was like, "How did I do that?"  I was not really trying to. Wink  I felt a little guilty then.  I often think if I had only applied myself I guess I could have graduated at the top?  But I did not care that much really.  In fact, after taking one AP class I realized I was working harder for an "A" and it would be much easier to just take a normal class, not study at all and get an A or B.  I guess I was a little "lazy" too.


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August 05, 2013, 06:22:28 PM
 #165

Bitcoin is just the natural and rational evolution of money. Not surprising it would be firstly noticed by intelligent people Smiley
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August 05, 2013, 06:28:25 PM
 #166

...my grades were OK but not great.  I did not care that much.  I was shocked when I graduated with honors.  I was like, "How did I do that?"  I was not really trying to. Wink  I felt a little guilty then.  I often think if I had only applied myself I guess I could have graduated at the top?

I felt the same way during my university graduation. Everyone was all excited about having such a great accomplishment, and patting themselves for overcoming great difficulties, while I felt that there was nothing special about it. I just did what I was told to, one step at a time, and graduation was just another in a long series of steps. It's like, "anyone can do this, if they just went out and did it. What's the big deal?"
Master's level graduation was a bit different. They REALLY tax your brain and make you work in those classes.

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August 05, 2013, 06:32:09 PM
 #167

The problem with this is, it's hard to figure out whom this applies to. We have two groups, Bitcoiners, and Detractors (trolls, SA goons, etc)

The situation could be any of the following:

  • Bitcoiners are dumb, but think they are smarter than the detractors, and are ignoring the advice of the smart detractors.
  • Detractors are dumb, but think they are smarter than bitcoiners, and are ignoring the advice of the smart bitcoiners.

I think you misinterpret the Dunning-Kruger effect.
You do not have to be dumb to be affected. It's a relative scale.
The smartest people on earth have problems with this phenomenon.
It simply states that people affected will think they are smatrter than they realy are.
It's about thinking you are smarter than you actually are. It's not about being smart or dumb in an absolute way.
Moreover, you synthetically divide the community into 'bitcoiners' and 'detractors' while it's an obvious 'no true scotsman'.

We have two very distinct groups here: people who like bitcoin and support it, and people who dislike bitcoin and think it's stupid. The group that is indifferent is irrelevant, since it simply doesn't participate. I don't see an issue with the 'no true scotsman' here.

Well, how much would you have to support or like bitcoin to be considered on the side of bitcoin?
Conversely, how much do you have to dislike bitcoin to be considered a detractor?
What about the people without strong opinions? People who like bitcoin but not fanatically? Or people who don't like digital money but still use it because its there? Are they true supporters and haters?

I don't think there is a hard division between people who like bitcoin and people who are against. It's a synthetic proposition.


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August 05, 2013, 06:37:35 PM
 #168

FYI, I am a lazy bastard, and spent the last two years of highschool getting shit grades and almost never doing homework or studying for exams, but I never got less than a B on tests, simply because I derived most of the exam problems from scratch or bits of memory, instead of studying and memorizing things like my classmates. Out of humility, I'd like to think that I'm not that special, and any one of my classmates could have done the same, but I somehow doubt that.

OK.  I totally believe you have a 160 IQ now. Smiley

Seriously, the smarter you are it seems the more bored people are in high school.  In my experience it seems those that have the best grades are the ones in the 120-130 range.   I was just barely above that so my grades were OK but not great.  I did not care that much.  I was shocked when I graduated with honors.  I was like, "How did I do that?"  I was not really trying to. Wink  I felt a little guilty then.  I often think if I had only applied myself I guess I could have graduated at the top?  But I did not care that much really.  In fact, after taking one AP class I realized I was working harder for an "A" and it would be much easier to just take a normal class, not study at all and get an A or B.  I guess I was a little "lazy" too.



I always got shit grades in school, except that I was also in a bad financial situation and had to work up until 12AM as a waiter despite the fact that it was illegal to employ me that late as a teenager, I was also almost always tired in school and rumors were running around that I was using drugs, one of the teachers even told my friends not to hang out with me because he was so convinced, all the "geeks" that studied well in those days are lacking aspirations nowadays and generally behave like sacks of shit getting below-average pay and spending their free time being backstabbing lazy couch potato stoners, people that are like minded and go through life like sheeple taking advice from teachers/parents/friends go nowhere in life.

I  ended up getting an awesome job with above-average pay, getting in shape, smashing sloots and generally having a pretty sweet life. High school grades != (Intelligence/success in life), Uni grades !=(Intelligence/success in life)








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August 05, 2013, 06:38:09 PM
 #169

I has an IQ of 82 can I join yer club?


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August 05, 2013, 06:45:52 PM
 #170

I would argue that there are very few human beings who aren't intelligent; our species is the very definition of intelligence, the reason why the word, let alone the concept, exists at all.  It depends on how a person acts; even people who believe in completely irrational things can appear highly intelligent; they can form sentences just fine and explain clearly their beliefs, whatever they may be.  The effect seen when examining people on this forum is that they generally favor logic and reason, complete their ideas using their language properly, and have an interest in ideas that other people don't prefer to think about; I believe this is directly influenced by Bitcoin and what it is, that draws so many of the same type of personalities.  A test was done earlier that showed this forum was dominated by INTx personalities, who are known to be rational and logical, and love abstract concepts like philosophy and science.  Perhaps it is these traits that make them appear more intelligent than others, but this does not imply that their minds are literally bigger or faster; the personality merely holds knowledge in a very high regard.  So, the presentation of these people are generally as I've described; a desire to be clear and concise with one's language, so they may express their ideas on abstract concepts (like Bitcoin) in a way others would understand.

Of course, everyone has different interests, and they're all intelligent, even if their beliefs are irrational (like racists, for example.  And scientologists/mormons.)  Bitcoin just attracts a certain type of person.  Are they more intelligent?  I don't believe we can measure the ability of a person to think based on their interests, personality or presentation; I believe it is already obvious that a person can think, and what it is they think about is what they naturally choose to think on, and how often.  My mind works in no different fashion than any other; what differs is what I value, and though some people may value morals, or wealth, or relationships, I value knowing and understanding.

So naturally, that would lead to an increase of general knowledge.  But if we're measuring intelligence on how much we know, People magazine would be the most stimulating literature in the world.

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August 05, 2013, 06:47:17 PM
 #171

The bitcoin community seems very polarized to me. It is exacerbated by the fact that to really understand bitcoin, one needs to have both the ability to grasp the technical side of the software/protocol and various economic mechanisms.

On one hand you have people capable of thinking outside of the box, who 1/ realize that the world is not immutable 2/ can attempt to imagine how things could be if they were different from what they are now.

On the other hand you have gullible idiots who believe in instant riches, conspirations and magics and basically can't think for themselves but are very eager to follow any guru they will find.

Usually the "smart" people in the community are computer engineers and they sometimes have and an understanding of the economy that is too simplistic. There is not enough "economists" in the community but the main reason is that "economic science" not being a science, most economists are stupid and narrow minded and are therefore constantly victim of cognitive dissonance through their life. So they would very quickly reject bitcoin without giving it much thought. Therefore it's among traders and entrepreneurs (whome I call the real economists) that you will find many of the people constituting the other half of the "smart" people.
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August 05, 2013, 07:04:39 PM
 #172

When I give a peek to 4chans /pol or reddit, facebook, twitter, pretty much any big community and/or social network people seem to be so ignorant and willing to voice their ignorance whereas in communities such as Bitcointalk (and a couple others which I shall not name) people are able to put together logical arguments, have discussions and view the current events without the glasses with a thick layer of crappy propaganda on them?

Seems that you rarely stumble upon ignorant fools on here.

I think most Bitcoiners or crypto currency enthusiast in general understand at some level the current economic situation and geopolitical sate of the world. 

We understand that America cannot print money forever.
We understand history repeats itself (Nazi Germany printed money, like crazy before WWII... lead to hyper inflation).
We understand that currency wars lead to trade wars, which leads to real wars (history proves this)
We understand that GOLD is great store of value, but you cannot carry gold around with you (though some gold is necessary in a portfolio...5%)
We understand that the printed money are used to fund clandestine wars all over the world.

Most importantly that the world cannot and should not keep the current monetary system which has been around since after the times of Egypt.  Central Banking controlled world by the elites where most governments around the world are their puppets doing their bidding.  Media is used to make citizens think, act and spend a certain way.

Do you have student loans?
Do you have car loans?
Do you have credit card debts?
Do you have a huge mortgage?

Understand , You are in debt by design.

People are the workers in the system kept indebted,  paying taxes and banking fees funneling the money up the chain to the few that just keeps getting richer. 

We understand that a new and more egalitarian /  free money system must take over and at least give some power to the people, instead of the governments and elites that control over 80% of the world's wealth.

If you can spare a few hours watch this video analysis about Control System and "The Matrix" world we live in :

http://www.moneyaccumulator.com/1118/the-matrix-trilogy-decoded-by-mark-passio-the-system-we-live-in/

The above is pretty much all I can think of right now.  I'm sure the hoards of smart people on this forum can add more points.

Peace out.

CryptoCoinMKT


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August 05, 2013, 07:07:05 PM
 #173

Well, how much would you have to support or like bitcoin to be considered on the side of bitcoin?
Conversely, how much do you have to dislike bitcoin to be considered a detractor?
What about the people without strong opinions? People who like bitcoin but not fanatically? Or people who don't like digital money but still use it because its there? Are they true supporters and haters?

I don't think there is a hard division between people who like bitcoin and people who are against. It's a synthetic proposition.


Then it would follow that the Dunning-Kruger effect claim is a synthetic proposition as well.

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August 05, 2013, 07:16:17 PM
 #174

Argh!!
After this I'm ignoring the OP, thus erasing this masturbatory thread from my front page view.

Why I seem intelligent? Because I'm surrounded by idiots.

Are you feeling less pretty today? Surround yourself with ugly people.

Are you feeling unwealthy today? Go find some poor people.

Wanna know what's it like to be a god? Get monkeys.


Ha Ha , this is funny.  Grin
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August 05, 2013, 07:18:09 PM
 #175

Thanks for playing You Got Trolled - Junior Edition (for IQs 19-99).
So, did i win?

Your prize is 1000 Paradimes!   Cool

The idea behind Paradime (the altcoin for dimwits) was to create a clone of Primecoin, but with block rewards going to miners who are the first to discover new even numbers that are multiples of 10. 

Unfortunately Paradime is not traded on any exchange.   The code was written by people who strenuously believe IQ has no bearing on aptitude or ability, so it's completely broken.

If you are a BASIC guru, perhaps you can submit some bug fixes and get it going. 


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August 05, 2013, 07:27:55 PM
 #176

You may remember that when it started, Facebook was only between Harvard students. Rich, bright kids. Now that it's mainstream, intelligence level of the average user has come down dramatically. With BTC still in an early phase, intelligence level of the average bitcoiner is high, but this will not last, and nobody should want it to last.

It's awful, but if we want bitcoin's success, we want it to be used by dumb blondes, high school dropouts, sickos, Homer Simpson, etc...

Interesting how you correlate harvard students with bright, and trow high school dropouts together with the dumb blonds.

You might want to read some stories about Bill Gates, Steve Jobs etc.

Bill Gates and Steve Jobs are not high school dropouts... In fact, Bill Gates is a Harvard student...

Let me correct that for you:

"In fact, Bill Gates is a Harvard student dropout."

High school means higher education in Europe (+18 year), OP might have meant people that drop out of school between the age of 12-18?

I think university and school do more bad than good for the intelligence of a human being.

The use of Harvard, rather than Cambridge or Oxford, is an indication that the poster is American.

Also, I do not see how school does more bad than good for intelligence, though this depends on one's definition of intelligence. Most people I consider to be intelligent are well-educated.

I mean with intelligence, wisdom. Sorry if that was not clear.

Most people I have known that were well educated (high degrees/grades), were not wise, nor happy.

The explanation for that is that education is learning you to submit rather than think for yourself. To do as other people say, rather than follow your feelings.

School looks much more like a prison than anything else.


My husband is a senior software architect.  He has learned that in hiring if the resume has "Masters" or "Doctorate"  he is less likely to want to even interview the person.  The main reason is that the person thinks he is smarter just because of the degree and is often so tied to what he "learned" in college without really working in the "real world" that the education becomes a negative instead of a positive.  He would joke with colleagues when he saw "masters degree" on the resume and then toss it in the trash.

I think sometimes the smarter you are the less the person wants to bother with "higher education."  Just my observations here.

Agreed, I know a lot of people with "Masters" and "Doctorate" who have their nose so high, thinking they are better than everyone else in the office, meanwhile they are doing the same things I am, getting paid the same wage, thinking they deserve more because they went the extra mile in education. The kicker is that sometimes their higher education doesn't translate into actionable or useful skills at the workplace.

Mind you, not all are like this, I know quite a few that are motivated and contributes a lot to the task at hand at the office...but one thing in common is that they all have huge "student loan debts", up in the $100K area. Ouch.
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August 05, 2013, 07:31:07 PM
 #177


What realy makes it hard is brain specialization.
Often you will see smart people programmed to think along certain paradimes. This makes them utterly impractical to communicate with.
More often than not it's the smart person that's inable to communicate normally simply because they never got around to practicing it and now their brains are too specific to lock easily into other brains.

The smarter the people you work with are the more they behave like a collection of autistic cats.
At least, that's my experience.
Once you get into the 150's you find that everyone has their own view on existance and making an argument, however casual, will result in half these people re-evaluating the meaning of life.


Isn't putting people down typical of people who are not intelligent?

Yes. In one or more areas.

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Aseras
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August 05, 2013, 08:38:17 PM
 #178

What makes it "hard" is the average person can't figure out how to swipe a credit card and use a pin keypad. The can't remember passwords, or even phone numbers anymore because they store them all in their iphones.

The entire planet is going the way of idiocracy.
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August 05, 2013, 09:00:43 PM
 #179

What makes it "hard" is the average person can't figure out how to swipe a credit card and use a pin keypad. The can't remember passwords, or even phone numbers anymore because they store them all in their iphones.

The entire planet is going the way of idiocracy.

I think we are moving more mundane things out of our brains and into devices that can handle these things for us, and are freeing up our brains for more advanced things. Well, some of us are.

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August 05, 2013, 09:12:01 PM
 #180

Has anybody said Dunning-Krugerrands yet?
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