@Yifu/Bitsyncom please dont hold back the chip shipment because of b3 miners...

[Xian01]

Kinda poor form on Yifu being incommunicado for so long.

Not sure what is going through that dude's mind.

[Ytterbium]

Kinda poor form on Yifu being incommunicado for so long.

Not sure what is going through that dude's mind.

He said like 90% of the the 'support tickets' filed were people whining about the order queue, trying to change their position, and he didn't like it very much. That's exactly what's going on here - someone requesting that Yifu completely screw over one group of customers in order to benefit him.

Bitcoin mining hardware is different then any other industry, especially right at this moment. For most people, if something they ordered is delayed, they might be annoyed but it's not going to be that big of a deal at all. And for a hardware startup butterfly lab's 13 month delay wouldn't even be that big of a deal if it was just some gadget.

But, bitcoin mining hardware is incredibly time dependent.  If you're three months late it's a major problem. If you're 13 months late, and you took in bitcoin at $10 now it's $100... yeah people are going to be livid.

The problem is the expectations and anger from users is way in excess of what you'd see in most businesses.  On the other hand, whenever you offer a product people throw money at you, even if you completely ignore them.  So the obvious incentive is to simply ignore everyone.

[Tehfiend]

After a while you are just a chump.  Question is when is that? 12 weeks? 14 weeks?  4 months?

Now that we are approaching 4 months from my chips order date I am starting to feel like a chump for sure. I trusted Avalon, and with every day that goes by I feel more snd more like my trust was misplaced.  I made the best mining investment I could in late April, and even that turned out to be a dud.

Truth is that the best investment from now on might be to buy and hold coins only. Too many people rushed into mining at once after our 3 month gold rush. Mining became over invested when the price peaked early 2013 and before mining power could come online fast enough to compensate.

Nobody knew the chips would be delayed back in April. It seemed like shipping could happen within 9 weeks at that time. They are just chips. Chips that they made before already.

--------------------------

None of this negates the fact that if you show up in china with a lawsuit over this you will get more laughs then results. What a waste of time and money. The fact that I realize this does not make me a doormat. It make me practical. I have no power to enforce Avalons shipping dates and the sooner I realize that and move on the better. I need to focus my energy on things I have control over now.

Be patient and see what happens. I almost ordered 10k chips but got cold feet for exactly these same reasons since my batch 2 Avalons were almost 2 months late with little info why at that point. Eventually they did arrive and actually run 20+% faster than advertised and are 100% stable. Sure they would have made A LOT more had they arrived on time but don't lose perspective because of all that lost opportunity. You're still very early in a long long queue of people trying to get their hands on ASIC's and you'll most likely make a lot of money despite the delay and you'll have Yifu to thank. I hope he gets his "blackhole" of information under control and his timelines more accurate but I'm sure he's doing his best which we should all be grateful for IMO...

[erk]

So where exactly does it say that batch #3 is held up due to a shortage of ASIC chips?

[ionstorm]

I believe were getting fucked....

[jermwerty]

As a Batch 2 owner and also waiting on a B3... I waited over 3 months past the original ETA for my B2 box.

Those of you thinking "chips" would magically arrive on time ether haven't been up on things obviously or need a hard dose of reality... When the chips are ready we will hear from Avalon and everything will be relatively fine and dandy.

I went through all kinds of emotions waiting for my B2 box.  Sure it might sound a little "Stockhom Syndrome"-esq but the reality is Avalon is consistently late (not nearly as bad as BFL obviously) and is more of a "best effort" Quality of Service level guarantee.  To expect German precision production on this is just, well lets say "too optimistic".

Everyone may gripe, but we are not about to kill the goose laying the golden eggs.   

[Bicknellski]

Not about the Batch 3's or chips being first.

We all ordered and we were all promised a delivery date.

Meet the dates or SHIP asap that is all that needs to be done.

[AdamKD]

Not about the Batch 3's or chips being first.

We all ordered and we were all promised a delivery date.

Meet the dates or SHIP asap that is all that needs to be done.

This.  I'm not sure why people are saying B3 or chips should be shipped first.  It's deadlines that should be met when promised.  Simple as that.

Anyone who says B3 should come before chips appears to be playing a childish game of "me first".  This is more about deadlines not being honored and not who should be going first.

It's sort of expected that when someone says that something will be delivered on XYZ it will be delivered on XYZ not XYZ + A days/weeks/months.

[alpet]

BitSyncom can hold B3 and chips more time, but must compensate ROI dropping - partial refund for adjust price proportionally growth of difficulty. Otherwise, they are just crooks.

[Ytterbium]

Anyone who says B3 should come before chips appears to be playing a childish game of "me first".  This is more about deadlines not being honored and not who should be going first.

And so are the people who are claiming chips should be sent before B3 units.  Everyone is greedy.

I don't have a B3 order or a chip order so I don't really care either way.

[koob]

Anyone who says B3 should come before chips appears to be playing a childish game of "me first".

We all are playing childish game "whos first".

[eraziel]

And so are the people who are claiming chips should be sent before B3 units.  Everyone is greedy.

NO! All the chip buyers are asking for is for the shipping to be according to pre-communicated terms (10 weeks lead time).

On the other hand B3 buyers are not asking why their products have not been shipped on time, rather they are asking that shipping of another product is  delayed to improve their ROI.

So tell me how twisted your mind must be to consider this appropriate.





Also chip orders have much more BTC tied in them compared to Avalon B3. So no, B3 avalon buyers are not more important than the people that have been dumping thousands of BTC on chips.

[Wayne_Chang]

And so are the people who are claiming chips should be sent before B3 units.  Everyone is greedy.

NO! All the chip buyers are asking for is for the shipping to be according to pre-communicated terms (10 weeks lead time).

On the other hand B3 buyers are not asking why their products have not been shipped on time, rather they are asking that shipping of another product is  delayed to improve their ROI.

So tell me how twisted your mind must be to consider this appropriate.





Also chip orders have much more BTC tied in them compared to Avalon B3. So no, B3 avalon buyers are not more important than the people that have been dumping thousands of BTC on chips.

This thread shows people's greedy and selfish clearly.
Do you really think Avalon team is holding back the chips?
As I know the capacity of TSMC is very limited. Maybe the delay of chips are caused by TSMC or assembly factory.

[Xialla]

This thread shows people's greedy and selfish clearly.
Do you really think Avalon team is holding back the chips?
As I know the capacity of TSMC is very limited. Maybe the delay of chips are caused by TSMC or assembly factory.

well, here is the deal. you send money to somebody and we both accept the conditions. you side is pay in time, his side is deliver article in time (time is specified in deal).

and avalon not fulfill his side of deal. it doesn't matter if it caused by 3rd party vendor (TSMC) or anything else. zero fucks given. they simply breach mutual agreement. please stop advocate somebody, how is breaching deals and use words as greed and selfish. it is not about this human attributes..(or maybe yes, on avalon side)

next part (very frustrating) is lack of communications from avalon side. once they breach deal, they should communicate on daily basis and push update to their customers every day + send few free chips as compensation of delay. this is how business works in Europe. maybe scammers from chinese basement don't know it.

[SebastianJu]

@Ytterbium, Wayne_Chang, koob

Again... so when someone orders an acer notebook with amazon and the notebooks arent in stock anymore then you really await that all orders for intel celeron that came after that should stop until the acer notebook can be delivered? Because its fair?

The problems with b3 are a problem in itself. But there are no problems with the chip batches. So how the heck you await that b3 is shipping faster only because the chips arent shipped? Where do you get that connection from? I ordered chips because i know nothing really can go wrong. Its a proven concept. It only has to be created and shipped.... done. It has nothing to do with b3. And thats why i ordered them.

Regarding chips arent produced... did you miss that several wholesale buyers in china got tens of thousands of chips already? zefir is the only normal buyer that got one normal batch. So if those big buyers got their chips then our chips has to be produced already too. Because... yifu collected chip batch orders for 5 weeks, then he ordered at the foundry. All further ordered batches turned to "ordered" instantly. That means the chips werent already produced in foundry and the new chips could be put on the already existing order list. TSMC is only creating once because the biggest work they have with creating such chips is to change their working space to produce them. So its best for them to do all in one rush.
If you guys are right and those wholesale chips were ordered before and created before then yifu wouldnt have collected chip orders for 5 weeks. He would have moved those orders instantly to TSMC like he did after the order. That sounds to me like a pretty good indicator that our chips are already created.

By the way... TSMC isnt a small company... its nearly THE company for creating chips. So no, there is no big waiting time because they can only produce a small number of chips per time. The wait is only because its more effective to create more chips at once instead in more than one run.

[itod]

This thread shows people's greedy and selfish clearly.

The only ones who are greedy and selfish are batch #3 customers openly asking for chip batches to be delayed. There may be the reason(s) for the delay of the products you've ordered, like manufacturing problems, alleged sabotage, shipping provider problems, etc. On the contrary, there is no and can not be a reason for the delay of chip batches since single person can ship all of them within one working hour. The only reason for delaying is to openly cheat and manipulate your customers, which was not ever the case with your precious Avalon batch #3 delay. Not delivering the chip batches within the promised 10 weeks time-frame shifts Yifu from troubled hero to open cheater category.

As I know the capacity of TSMC is very limited. Maybe the delay of chips are caused by TSMC or assembly factory.

You should inform yourself before throwing such a nonsense around just for the sake of the argument. TSMC is 2nd largest world chip provider delivering them for nVidia and other giants. They eat manufacturing of Avalon chips for breakfast.

[jspielberg]

All this trains and planes and cars analogies are nonsense.

My guess is that they will go out in parallel. 

I doubt the chips for B3 are even being shipped to the same place as the chips for export.

The chips for export will be exported, and the chips for B3 will be turned into miners.

They will both ship when available.

[robix]

Not delivering the chip batches within the promised 10 weeks time-frame shifts Yifu from troubled hero to open cheater category.

+1 Nothing more to say.

[trigeek]

This thread shows people's greedy and selfish clearly.

How is it selfish to ask a vendor to hold up the terms of the deal that they themselves specified?

Do you really think Avalon team is holding back the chips?

Either through incompetence or malice, yes.  It doesn't make any sense for TSMC to do small batches of chips.  There is quite a bit of setup time that goes in to producing a run of ASIC chips, so it is in their best interest to produce as many as time allows after setting up all the equipment.  So for them to only have 10,000 or 20,000 chips at once is very suspicious to me.

As I know the capacity of TSMC is very limited. Maybe the delay of chips are caused by TSMC or assembly factory.

How do you "know" this?

[Wayne_Chang]

This thread shows people's greedy and selfish clearly.

How is it selfish to ask a vendor to hold up the terms of the deal that they themselves specified?

Do you really think Avalon team is holding back the chips?

Either through incompetence or malice, yes.  It doesn't make any sense for TSMC to do small batches of chips.  There is quite a bit of setup time that goes in to producing a run of ASIC chips, so it is in their best interest to produce as many as time allows after setting up all the equipment.  So for them to only have 10,000 or 20,000 chips at once is very suspicious to me.

As I know the capacity of TSMC is very limited. Maybe the delay of chips are caused by TSMC or assembly factory.

How do you "know" this?

As you guys can assume Bitsyncom is holding back the chip shipment, why I cannot assume there is no chip available?
I am not questioning on TSMC is delaying the chip. I am questioning did Avalon really passed the chips order to TSMC on time just like they said.