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Author Topic: CasinoBitco.in - Raising Bankroll for Football! [IPO] [BTC-TC] [BITFUNDER]  (Read 3827 times)
KingOfSports
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August 04, 2013, 08:56:06 PM
Last edit: August 05, 2013, 12:13:20 AM by KingOfSports
 #41

To me a 5000 BTC evaluation for a company that hasn't made even 50 BTC yet is insanely over valued. Right now bitbook.biz and NitrogenSports offer many better lines and many other games then you guys. Currently you offer only a couple leagues/sports. Bitbook and Nitrogen both offer at least 10 different leagues for soccer, MMA, AFL, WNBA, you name it. IMO you are valuing your company at what it possibly may be worth, whereas you should be valuing at whats its really worth today. $3000 made in profit in two months does not mean $500,000+ value when the market is saturated with a couple big books and the margins are low. To me the valuation should be 500-750 BTC where you sell 20-40% to get the capital you need for your company. Just my two cents.

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casinobitcoin (OP)
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August 04, 2013, 10:08:14 PM
Last edit: August 05, 2013, 12:52:03 AM by casinobitcoin
 #42

To me a 5000 BTC evaluation for a company that hasn't made even 50 BTC yet is insanely over valued. Right now bitbook.biz and NitrogenSports offer many better lines and many other games then you guys. Currently you offer only a couple leagues/sports. Bitbook and Nitrogen both offer at least 10 different leagues for soccer, MMA, AFL, WNBA, you name it. IMO you are valuing your company at what it possibly may be worth, whereas you should be valuing at whats its really worth today. $3000 made in profit in two months does not mean $500,000+ value when the market is saturated with a couple big books and the margins are low. To me the valuation should be 500-750 BTC where you sell 20-40% to get the capital you need for your company. Just my two cents.

(KOS- I edited my post per your edit)

We agree with the feedback on additional options - that's something we're preparing to add, especially with the larger bankroll to support the increased action!

On the share price, I have to constructively disagree - We certainly intend to offer it at a price that will sell out, and have excellent earnings compared to other IPOs and assets in the bitcoin economy (We plan to be able to conservatively pay our investors a year-one dividend at least as high as Ukyo.Loan/ASICMiner, with a large upside if things go well) - and if we simply continue to grow and hit our reasonable targets for NFL, the price should reflect that.

By investing, you're basically putting faith in Tim, I, and the rest of the dev team at CasinoBitco.in to continue to grow as we have, which involves some competing with the other books/casinos. I also don't see Nitrogen or Bitbook offering shares you can compare us to, although they're welcome to - I'll bet it would be at a several times larger valuation than ours (for now)  Wink

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August 05, 2013, 01:02:03 AM
 #43

Just another thought - bitcoin gaming is growing approximately 10% per month in popularity right now - while still having less than .1% of the overall sports betting/casino market - it's a revolutionary technology with huge potential, and why I originally got into bitcoin... Whether or not we agree on the other items, we agree on choosing to use bitcoin books over the "off-shores"  Smiley

(and honestly think it's likely a better investment than fighting for an ever-shrinking piece of the bitcoin mining pie)

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August 05, 2013, 01:36:06 AM
 #44

use BTCT plz  Grin

btc: 15sFnThw58hiGHYXyUAasgfauifTEB1ZF6
casinobitcoin (OP)
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August 05, 2013, 03:49:53 PM
 #45

I have finally had time to review your numbers that you have given, which in honestly is not a lot for someone who actually reviews ratios.

Over a ~2 month period you are up over 60 BTC, which is a nice profit but looking at the charts that you provided No IPO/ IPO you are seeing an additional ~50 BTC profit with the IPO on 10/1/13 which is in cause to raising you max bets.

You have a valuation of 100% of your business at 5,000 BTC which is right now approximately $500,000 in USD, as for that it would be hard for me to justify, as most valuations are based on 1 year revenues or approximately 2-5 year profit margins based on what type of business and the approximate longevity.  Right now all bitcoin businesses should be based on the very low end of the # of year’s profit margins.  

Casinobitco Perceived Val, imo

I would estimate you will make about 200 BTC for 4 months during NFL season and approximately 240 BTC during the other 8 months.  This is based on your booking and Black Jack games, futher growth is needed, imo for more profit.  Therefore making about 440BTC a year.  Now this depends on your ability to gain market versus other books, and also gain more US betting during NFL/CFB, which honestly I am yet to determine if the regular BTC user with deep pockets is really American football fans.  Your major US sports gamblers are not here yet in the BTC community, imo.

So using that I base you guys a perceived valuation at 2 years x 440 = 880BTC
But in all honestly just using the 60 BTC over the last 2 months as basis the 1 year total profit would be 360BTC = a valuation with 2 year basis of =720BTC right this very minute.  

With 30,000,000 shares (also a number I don’t like as the future stock grows the market loves low number of shares as splits generate future profit gains) it would make the shares in my mind at 880BTC = 0.00003BTC per share.

So you are looking at 2 options of investments IPO versus additional Venture Capitalists,

1. Venture Capitalists, if they know what they are doing and not just bitcoin miners who got rich back in day without investing true USD, then their offer will be approximately 400 BTC for ~45% of the company, or worse, with you running operations daily

If you get the amount you are asking with the percentage of the company you are willing to give do it, DO NOT PASS GO DO NOT TAKE $200!

2. IPO - If you go this route and at the share price you have listed, which I would suggest if you dont get a VC dumbass, you need to dump all 10%, not in 2 waves but initially , as second wave won’t ever get to that share price imo in next 2-5 years, after first release.  Because imo an IPO is an opportunity on BTCT.co as a pump and dump.  

Meaning you are going to get more invested initially for less % of company. This will also create market buzz for your business like Labcoin did last week.

Possible issue with this is people can lose out money on this venture with very little possible gains unlike VC where there are 1-3 people who gain a lot on large amounts.  If enough people lose out are these people who lost people who use your service.



Well thought out post & some helpful feedback, thanks! I have to address couple points.

We fully expect to double your estimates year 1. Surprisingly, casino is actually a much larger part of our business than sports – we just released "provably fair", with more on the way soon. So far, most of our high-roller action is 'non-US', so NFL is really just a growth opportunity.

Also, I believe 2-5x is commonly “promised” for some franchise or brick & mortar start-up type investments, but I can’t find examples trading at the low end of that range on any bitcoin marketplaces (see my post in page 1), and 6-8x is a common range in the VC world. I agree, either has risks, but we can agree to disagree otherwise, and I appreciate posting the math to back your #’s.

Finally, we have no intention to "pump and dump", as that would be bad press (Facebook, anyone?). However, if a smart trader thinks that, he/she would simply sit on the sidelines and wait for cheap shares, just like anyone who bought Facebook at $18  Smiley


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August 05, 2013, 08:06:26 PM
 #46

I want to give you my BTC because I think you'll make me some money. There is no way I can justify your valuation.

You don't make enough BTC

You're business is too much of a risk for what I would need to give you

It would take much too long to get my money back.

Other than the IPO boom at launch there are more secure securities that offer comparable or better returns.


I'm still  Huh at how 40 BTC profit = 5,000BTC company.


I can run some awesome prediction charts if I compare the week I was unemployed to my first paycheck. I just don't think this is very realistic, I'm sorry.
casinobitcoin (OP)
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August 06, 2013, 09:45:45 PM
Last edit: August 06, 2013, 10:01:28 PM by casinobitcoin
 #47

Hayek, we appreciate the feedback. However, I have no doubt we will pretty easily multiply that earnings figure.

We appreciate the interest received so far, and are on the way fulfilling our bankroll goal for now. We are happy to share our balance, income statement & answer any questions to those interested in private investment via PM, and will continue to consider the IPO path, to increase publicity and make it easier for smaller investors to take part.

Thanks to all who have left positive or constructive feedback, we will close this thread for now!




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August 07, 2013, 06:01:46 AM
 #48

Casinobitco.in currently has an unpaid loan with CoinLenders that they did not disclose. This loan is not overdue, however it should have been noted.

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August 07, 2013, 10:57:12 AM
 #49

Casinobitco.in currently has an unpaid loan with CoinLenders that they did not disclose. This loan is not overdue, however it should have been noted.



Yep, a loan of 25 BTC which is no overdue nor has any plans of being overdue.

I didn't disclose this because any funds raised here weren't for that purpose. Further, the loan is tied directly to me personally, and not the CasinoBitco.in venture.


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