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Author Topic: MasterCoin: New Protocol Layer Starting From “The Exodus Address”  (Read 447580 times)
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vokain
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August 18, 2013, 01:52:06 PM
 #481

^Right, as per the white paper's subheading "The Exodus Address"

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August 18, 2013, 02:14:13 PM
 #482



^ Smiley

is that mastercoin in binary?

although, I would like a logo, professional but alludes to the biblical book of exodus some how. IMO, those designs are a bit too sterile for my personal liking. Regardless, they look cool!

Yep! It says Mastercoin. The black and white makes them look really harsh. But I'll think about exodus and see if I can come up with anything. That's an interesting angle.

Wow! That is awesome! For some reason the ones that look like radiation symbols appeal to me. I think maybe it is because I have always viewed this idea as potentially very destructive to existing money systems, like an atomic bomb.

We haven't actually set a bounty amount for this logo yet, so we probably should! Anybody know what what bitcoin projects are paying for logos these days?


Thanks! Here are a couple more added to the b/w sketches. I tried to go for an abstract representation of the parting of the red sea (exodus). Definitely not explicitly that because i tried to design it into an "M", but hopefully you can see it.  




Whichever one is chosen, I'll provide vector/png formats for them and release them as open source. As far as what logos seem to be going for, I'm happy with whatever donations people would like to offer. Logos range in price so I don't really have a specific number, but typically it's between 1-2 btc.   Obviously I'd love to have access to some mastercoins so that would be great too, except I would have to download the client onto my desktop, right?

I vote for either 1 or 6. The others are a bit too abstract but all of them are cool and you're talented for sure.
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August 19, 2013, 05:02:07 PM
 #483

Project update 8/19/2013

I spent a good portion of my weekend contemplating scalability, and I am pleased with my findings so far:

  • MasterCoin has excellent usability early on, since the data the first 250038 blocks can be ignored (the first transaction to the Exodus Address was in block 250039)
  • MasterCoin clients can safely ignore the vast majority of bitcoin transactions, since only transactions with an output to the Exodus Address need to be parsed. (For instance, no MasterCoin client will ever need to look at a SatoshiDice transaction.)
  • MasterCoin scalability issues only become noticeable if the project is insanely successful. If MasterCoin transactions are the vast majority of bitcoin transactions, it will take longer and longer to parse them all. HOWEVER in that distant future, as with bitcoin, thin clients which sign transactions locally but rely on trusted servers for parsing previous transactions are a good performance/security compromise, and heavy users will invest in the hardware to run a full node locally, just as they do now with bitcoin.

In order to better support scalability, I'll be making a couple changes to the spec:

  • The most important change will be that MasterCoin clients will require using sendmany, rather than having the option to send them one at a time. This means that a MasterCoin client never needs to look at ANY transactions other than those which contain the Exodus Address as an output
    • I believe that every major client (with the notable exception of the Android wallet) supports this feature. Hopefully, sendmany is coming soon to Android, but if not, I'll be sure to provide a way to transfer MasterCoins out of your Android wallet to a wallet which supports SendMany for those of you who used Android wallet to purchase MasterCoins.
  • I will also change the spec so that data streams use a MasterCoin transaction to publish data (with an output to the Exodus Address) rather than just being standard bitcoin transactions. This will also improve block chain parsing and scalability.

These two changes mean that EVERYTHING needed to parse EVERY MasterCoin transaction (including every user currency transaction, every bet, every piece of data published on every datastream, every property transaction, every currency sale, etc) can be calculated just from the Exodus Address transactions: http://blockchain.info/address/1EXoDusjGwvnjZUyKkxZ4UHEf77z6A5S4P

Technically, even my GreaseMonkey script currently used to calculate MasterCoin purchases on that page (http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/175196) could be expanded to parse all those MasterCoin transactions! (Although that won't scale as well as native clients.)


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August 19, 2013, 05:37:52 PM
 #484

MasterCoin clients can safely ignore the vast majority of bitcoin transactions, since only transactions with an output to the Exodus Address need to be parsed. (For instance, no MasterCoin client will ever need to look at a SatoshiDice transaction.)

The only reliable way to find all transactions which mention certain address is to scan all Bitcoin transactions.

So this doesn't buy you anything: you still need to read all transactions in block, parse them as Bitcoin transactions, checking whether they mention exodus address. If they don't you can skip further processing step.

This doesn't improve scalability. Maybe you'll have processing twice faster if you avoid "multipart" transactions, but processing time/download time is linear on number of transactions in blockchain.

You might be able to fetch only transactions which mention exodus address if you use centralized service like blockchain.info, but then you will depend on such service. For example, such service might omit a transaction to perform a double-spend on you.



If you only consider 'full node' clients (or ones using similar design), you should be concerned with what they need to keep in db and what changes they need to apply to it, not with number of transactions processed, since full node clients need to process all transactions anyway.

Say, what do you do in case of reorg, i.e. how do you unwind the state back to the point it was N blocks ago where fork happened?

One way to do this is to keep track of all changes to the state, but then you'll store the whole history...

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August 19, 2013, 06:12:04 PM
 #485

MasterCoin clients can safely ignore the vast majority of bitcoin transactions, since only transactions with an output to the Exodus Address need to be parsed. (For instance, no MasterCoin client will ever need to look at a SatoshiDice transaction.)

The only reliable way to find all transactions which mention certain address is to scan all Bitcoin transactions.

So this doesn't buy you anything: you still need to read all transactions in block, parse them as Bitcoin transactions, checking whether they mention exodus address. If they don't you can skip further processing step.

This doesn't improve scalability. Maybe you'll have processing twice faster if you avoid "multipart" transactions, but processing time/download time is linear on number of transactions in blockchain.

You might be able to fetch only transactions which mention exodus address if you use centralized service like blockchain.info, but then you will depend on such service. For example, such service might omit a transaction to perform a double-spend on you.



If you only consider 'full node' clients (or ones using similar design), you should be concerned with what they need to keep in db and what changes they need to apply to it, not with number of transactions processed, since full node clients need to process all transactions anyway.

Say, what do you do in case of reorg, i.e. how do you unwind the state back to the point it was N blocks ago where fork happened?

One way to do this is to keep track of all changes to the state, but then you'll store the whole history...

Yes, one way avoid the server-trust problem is to use multiple independent data sources, so they would have to collude to perform a double-spend.

But yes, full nodes will still have to scan the full block chain. However, they should need WAY less RAM to do so, since the vast majority of it can be just thrown out once it is determined to not apply to MasterCoins.

Since unwinding bitcoin transasctions (in event of reorg) also unwinds MasterCoin transactions, I don't think anything would be needed other than a re-scan of the block-chain data.

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August 19, 2013, 06:54:05 PM
 #486

Since unwinding bitcoin transasctions (in event of reorg) also unwinds MasterCoin transactions, I don't think anything would be needed other than a re-scan of the block-chain data.

Do you mean that full rescan of blockchain is needed after each reorg?

Bitcoin nodes handle reorgs much more efficiently.

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August 19, 2013, 08:11:54 PM
 #487


Do you mean that full rescan of blockchain is needed after each reorg?

Bitcoin nodes handle reorgs much more efficiently.

I can tell you have traveled this path before!

Initially a full rescan will be used just to keep things simple, but eventually I'll probably optimize my time/space efficiency tradeoffs.

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August 19, 2013, 08:48:25 PM
 #488

Giveaway thread is proceeding nicely: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=272577.0
That's what is causing all those 0.0006 BTC transactions are on the Exodus Address: http://blockchain.info/address/1EXoDusjGwvnjZUyKkxZ4UHEf77z6A5S4P

It still looks like we're going to have a lot left over at the end, which I'll distribute to everybody on that thread. Get over there and get some if you haven't already!

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August 19, 2013, 08:53:23 PM
 #489

I think MasterCoin's greatest value isn't necessarily in its current feature set, but rather in the infrastructure that it provides.

For this purpose, I'd like to propose a way for MasterCoin to evolve in a decentralized manner. I'm not monitoring this bitcointalk thread anymore (too noisy), but I'll monitor the specific Google Group thread if anyone has any comments.

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August 19, 2013, 09:56:39 PM
 #490

I think MasterCoin's greatest value isn't necessarily in its current feature set, but rather in the infrastructure that it provides.

For this purpose, I'd like to propose a way for MasterCoin to evolve in a decentralized manner. I'm not monitoring this bitcointalk thread anymore (too noisy), but I'll monitor the specific Google Group thread if anyone has any comments.

More like - MasterCoin's biggest flaw isn't necessarily in its current feature set, but rather in the blockchain exploitation that it relies on.

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August 20, 2013, 12:19:45 AM
 #491

In the interest of total transparency, I just sent 4.5 BTC to the Exodus Address on behalf of a friend. He gave me cash to buy him some bitcoins a few weeks ago, which I have been holding for him, and when I told him about my project, he wanted to invest his bitcoins.

They don't belong to me, but I technically have control over them since I am holding them on my friend's behalf. Probably nobody cares, but I figured I should mention it.

My dad also said he was going to write me a check, so I'll do the same thing for him if he does.

Obviously, I warned both of them to only invest what they could afford to lose Smiley

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August 20, 2013, 02:24:47 AM
 #492

Sounds like a cool project.. If you can make it work Smiley Over 2 000 BTC in his address…
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August 20, 2013, 03:34:10 PM
Last edit: August 20, 2013, 04:21:08 PM by dacoinminster
 #493

Whichever one is chosen, I'll provide vector/png formats for them and release them as open source. As far as what logos seem to be going for, I'm happy with whatever donations people would like to offer. Logos range in price so I don't really have a specific number, but typically it's between 1-2 btc.   Obviously I'd love to have access to some mastercoins so that would be great too, except I would have to download the client onto my desktop, right?

The "parting of the red sea" idea is both cool and hilarious.

Could you post a couple pictures of the word "MasterCoin" with the "M" replaced by the radiation symbol one and then again with the Red Sea one? I think we can leave out the circle of 0's and 1's, although people will probably put them on our physical coins someday . . .

Regarding a bounty, I think it should be easy to pay you in MasterCoins if that is what you want. You can use a regular bitcoin client - you don't need MasterCoin-specific software until you want to spend them.

I've been thinking maybe the Exodus Address should purchase a few MasterCoins once the distributed exchange is working, which I can then use for bounties like this. I think it would be cool to hold some of the Exodus Address funds in MasterCoins, both because I consider it a better investment than bitcoins and since (like many of you) I have no plans to sell my personal MasterCoins, even a small purchase might cause the price of them to go up quite a bit if there aren't many sellers Smiley


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August 20, 2013, 11:07:47 PM
 #494



The "parting of the red sea" idea is both cool and hilarious.

Could you post a couple pictures of the word "MasterCoin" with the "M" replaced by the radiation symbol one and then again with the Red Sea one? I think we can leave out the circle of 0's and 1's, although people will probably put them on our physical coins someday . . .

Regarding a bounty, I think it should be easy to pay you in MasterCoins if that is what you want. You can use a regular bitcoin client - you don't need MasterCoin-specific software until you want to spend them.


Hey I'll take anything, lol. And I'll obviously throw any btc from this into mastercoin if I get any more before the end of August.

Anyways: I edited the radioactive symbol because I feel like taking out the bottom element actually makes a more balanced design. But whatever works best for you!


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August 20, 2013, 11:54:15 PM
 #495

I love them!

I don't think the Red Sea one looks enough like an "M" to use in the word MasterCoin, so that one would probably have to be revised in some way if we use it. All the Radioactive ones look good to me as part of the word. I agree that taking out the bottom part of it looks slightly better.

I'm afraid to express much opinion, since my UI/design skills are less than minimal. Anybody else have opinions?


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August 21, 2013, 10:52:50 AM
 #496

My favorite Mastercoin logos are the first (top) one, and the third one down. 

The "M" in the second logo looks like a tee pee to me, and having the bottom section in the last one makes it look less like an "M". 

Although, I must say I did like the style of the bottom "M" for the coin design earlier in this thread.
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August 21, 2013, 02:59:15 PM
 #497

I love them!

I don't think the Red Sea one looks enough like an "M" to use in the word MasterCoin, so that one would probably have to be revised in some way if we use it. All the Radioactive ones look good to me as part of the word. I agree that taking out the bottom part of it looks slightly better.

I'm afraid to express much opinion, since my UI/design skills are less than minimal. Anybody else have opinions?



1 and 4 are clearly the most typographically pleasant. When scaling the uniformity in the "logo" M is great and they carry little detail.

I would prefer nr 4 myself.
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August 21, 2013, 09:52:13 PM
 #498

Some wonderful person just invested 50 BTC at the Exodus Address!

Thanks, whoever you are. I'll do my best to make sure your MasterCoin purchase is the best purchase you ever made  Smiley

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August 22, 2013, 03:26:17 PM
 #499

I would like to see Mastercoin and all its facets explained Khan Academy style, or other similar such style, at least in time.
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August 22, 2013, 11:19:20 PM
 #500

I hope things are going well with the wife and the kids, you seem like you are good at keeping a balance. Good luck on the project!

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