MasterCoin: New Protocol Layer Starting From “The Exodus Address”

[Luckybit]

Michael is a proven thought leader in the bitcoin space

What the hell is a 'thought leader'?  How does one distinguish a 'proven thought leader' from an 'unproven thought leader'?  This is exactly the sort of crap that annoys me to no end.  "If you are disrupting an existing industry by applying new Bitcoin technology..."  'disrupting' - the coolest overused buzzword of the year.  This crap is all warm-fuzzy-gooey hype.  It won't help attract brains.  Brains don't respond to that sort of nonsense.  Brains filter those silly cool buzzwords right out.  

However, as Terpin appears indeed to be close to bitcoin - and has a track record of similar hype projects, I guess he is well positioned to generate some good will.  I like the notion that in 3 months if the board does not consider the result productive they can bail.  Further, as JR has been won over by this proposal...  I, as the project's biggest PR skeptic would concede to this arrangement being approved.  If there is to be a committee to review the results - I'd like to be appointed to it.  Someone with a bit of critical eye should carefully consider what kind of response this activity is generating.  

Max Keiser is a thought leader. A thought leader is someone a lot of people listen to and take advice from. It does make sense to invest in getting the support of thought leaders but it all depends on the price. $6000 a month is pretty darn steep and should produce results which are measurable.

Some criticism:
"One of "mastercoin"'s problems is you can never have thin clients/SPV clients, etc. Each client has to be able to process and index the entire 8GB bitcoin blockchain in order to not be fooled or double-spent. Another issue is that mastercoin is centrally controlled by one party, all issued by one public key they call the "exodus address". There are quite a few technical issues with the whole approach mastercoin takes and it doesn't look to be feasible.

A more workable solution is presented by Freimarkets http://freico.in/docs/freimarkets-v0.0.1.pdf by long-time rippler Jorge Timon and Mark Friedenbach. Freimarkets will allow transitive "ripple" transactions, but it will be a fork from the bitcoin blockchain.

For a practical colored-coin implementation that uses the bitcoin blockchain (any solution that does so must make certain sacrifices) but does not suffer the defects of mastercoin, see the "bitcoinx" project that Alex Mizrahi leads at http://www.bitcoinx.org/. BitcoinX also does not support ripple-style transactions."

"Mastercoin is built as a layer on top of Bitcoin, so it doesn't have any specific transactions. Instead the upper level information is tucked into invalid inputs and outputs.
Since it's riding Bitcoin, it has all the drawbacks of Bitcoin: creepy slow, limited bandwidth due to fixed block size, arbitrary high transaction fee, centralized with two or three ASIC makers holding most of the network power including two Chinese companies...
And as a truly parasitic relationship it is going to harm a lot Bitcoin by spamming the blockchain and sucking all the bandwidth which will lead to further adjustments of the fees which will harm Mastercoin in turn...
The absolute most stupid thing is that Mastercoin allows anyone to mint custom currencies. This is going to be a mega spam party...

Mastercoin was built on top of Bitcoin because DaCoinMinster saw how alt coins are victim of ideological exclusion in the community and how Bitcoiners are inflexible fanatics. It's going to be a good learning for them.
We all know that Bitcoin needs small transactions to move off-chain if we don't want shit to hit the fan in the near future when adoption rate takes off. But instead of that Mastercoin brings more in-chain bloat at a whole new scale.

Mastercoin's success will be Bitcoin's Nemesis."

This reads like complete propaganda. If the Colored Coin (or Ripple) posse has to resort to propaganda rather than to compete in the market place of ideas it now gives me a very negative impression.

If Colored Coin is really a better technology why would anyone say that the most liberating feature of Mastercoin is the "absolutely most stupid thing". The user currencies are really the best thing about Mastercoin because of the potential.

Also the idea that Mastercoin will spam the blockchain? Mastercoin users pay fees like everyone else so how is it spam? Also it adds far more value to the blockchain than perhaps anything else so I don't get it.

Maybe PR is more important than most people think. And this isn't the only propaganda out there, there are all the vague threats of jail time popping up from people who seem to be associated with Colored Coin as well. But why would the developers of Mastercoin be at any more risk than the developers of Colored Coin, Bitcoin or any encryption software? Encryption itself can be abused but that doesn't mean new algorithms shouldn't be invented out of fear of angering some entity.

The fact that people are afraid of Mastercoin to the point of spreading propaganda means that perhaps it's on the right track.

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[Tachikoma]

You can't use test Bitcoins, sadly. I've lobbied to get an official Exodus on testnet but so far it has not happened yet.

another question, which is more helpful for you:

a)  make a new thread on the project dev forum for people to post their test exchange transactions and offers, and issues they encounter

or

b) have people post issues to https://github.com/maran/mastercoin-explorer/issues/new

I prefer a thread right here on the forums for now.

[maxmint]

Tachikoma, maybe you can help me here. I created a purchase offer using Mastercoin-explorer:
http://mastercoin-explorer.com/transactions/264b5b2ae09af4c74ddf9d5948695e8e70d788c87668d2cff8a8dc2383d86406

This was in reaction to this selling offer:
http://mastercoin-explorer.com/transactions/9087a1b72536f3b2909943553ba6d4e320565eeea1e42379dd4337b532f09fd8

Creating the purchase offer went well so far (thanks for the great help section!) but I'm not entirely sure what to do now to execute the offer.
Status now is "Waiting on Payment". Should I just send payment to the seller's address now?

[Tachikoma]

Tachikoma, maybe you can help me here. I created a purchase offer using Mastercoin-explorer:
http://mastercoin-explorer.com/transactions/264b5b2ae09af4c74ddf9d5948695e8e70d788c87668d2cff8a8dc2383d86406

This was in reaction to this selling offer:
http://mastercoin-explorer.com/transactions/9087a1b72536f3b2909943553ba6d4e320565eeea1e42379dd4337b532f09fd8

Creating the purchase offer went well so far (thanks for the great help section!) but I'm not entirely sure what to do now to execute the offer.
Status now is "Waiting on Payment". Should I just send payment to the seller's address now?

Yes, that is exactly it. It recognised your payment as a valid one and is now waiting for the payment from the address that send the Purchase Offer. You might need to lock your unspent outputs to make sure the payment comes from the right address. Also note that you need to pay in time, the time set out by the original Selling Offer. Hope this explains it a bit more.

[maxmint]

Tachikoma, maybe you can help me here. I created a purchase offer using Mastercoin-explorer:
http://mastercoin-explorer.com/transactions/264b5b2ae09af4c74ddf9d5948695e8e70d788c87668d2cff8a8dc2383d86406

This was in reaction to this selling offer:
http://mastercoin-explorer.com/transactions/9087a1b72536f3b2909943553ba6d4e320565eeea1e42379dd4337b532f09fd8

Creating the purchase offer went well so far (thanks for the great help section!) but I'm not entirely sure what to do now to execute the offer.
Status now is "Waiting on Payment". Should I just send payment to the seller's address now?

Yes, that is exactly it. It recognised your payment as a valid one and is now waiting for the payment from the address that send the Purchase Offer. You might need to lock your unspent outputs to make sure the payment comes from the right address. Also note that you need to pay in time, the time set out by the original Selling Offer. Hope this explains it a bit more.

Thanks for the explanation. The timeout is specified in number of blocks, is that correct? And does Mastercoin-explorer mark an purchase offer invalid if it is not paid within the required timeframe?

[Tachikoma]

Tachikoma, maybe you can help me here. I created a purchase offer using Mastercoin-explorer:
http://mastercoin-explorer.com/transactions/264b5b2ae09af4c74ddf9d5948695e8e70d788c87668d2cff8a8dc2383d86406

This was in reaction to this selling offer:
http://mastercoin-explorer.com/transactions/9087a1b72536f3b2909943553ba6d4e320565eeea1e42379dd4337b532f09fd8

Creating the purchase offer went well so far (thanks for the great help section!) but I'm not entirely sure what to do now to execute the offer.
Status now is "Waiting on Payment". Should I just send payment to the seller's address now?

Yes, that is exactly it. It recognised your payment as a valid one and is now waiting for the payment from the address that send the Purchase Offer. You might need to lock your unspent outputs to make sure the payment comes from the right address. Also note that you need to pay in time, the time set out by the original Selling Offer. Hope this explains it a bit more.

Thanks for the explanation. The timeout is specified in number of blocks, is that correct? And does Mastercoin-explorer mark an purchase offer invalid if it is not paid within the required timeframe?

The timeout is indeed specified in the number of blocks. If all goes well it should indeed change the status to expired and flag it as invalid if you don't pay within the proper timeframe

However this is not instant when a block if found but happens on a 15 minute interval, it might be a bit lagging.

[maxmint]

Tachikoma, maybe you can help me here. I created a purchase offer using Mastercoin-explorer:
http://mastercoin-explorer.com/transactions/264b5b2ae09af4c74ddf9d5948695e8e70d788c87668d2cff8a8dc2383d86406

This was in reaction to this selling offer:
http://mastercoin-explorer.com/transactions/9087a1b72536f3b2909943553ba6d4e320565eeea1e42379dd4337b532f09fd8

Creating the purchase offer went well so far (thanks for the great help section!) but I'm not entirely sure what to do now to execute the offer.
Status now is "Waiting on Payment". Should I just send payment to the seller's address now?

Yes, that is exactly it. It recognised your payment as a valid one and is now waiting for the payment from the address that send the Purchase Offer. You might need to lock your unspent outputs to make sure the payment comes from the right address. Also note that you need to pay in time, the time set out by the original Selling Offer. Hope this explains it a bit more.

Thanks for the explanation. The timeout is specified in number of blocks, is that correct? And does Mastercoin-explorer mark an purchase offer invalid if it is not paid within the required timeframe?

The timeout is indeed specified in the number of blocks. If all goes well it should indeed change the status to expired and flag it as invalid if you don't pay within the proper timeframe

However this is not instant when a block if found but happens on a 15 minute interval, it might be a bit lagging.

My first purchase offer expired, I definitely waited longer than 6 blocks. But I made another purchase offer and paid right after creating it, so the timeout should be no problem. However, it's marked as expired:
http://mastercoin-explorer.com/transactions/ee77b1382633f8a5def69b444d319548b304ad93d8bb73505f7ff1c5755fac18

What am I missing here?

[Tachikoma]

Could you link me all the transactions involved so I can check it out?

[superfluouso]

Tachikoma, maybe you can help me here. I created a purchase offer using Mastercoin-explorer:
http://mastercoin-explorer.com/transactions/264b5b2ae09af4c74ddf9d5948695e8e70d788c87668d2cff8a8dc2383d86406

This was in reaction to this selling offer:
http://mastercoin-explorer.com/transactions/9087a1b72536f3b2909943553ba6d4e320565eeea1e42379dd4337b532f09fd8

Creating the purchase offer went well so far (thanks for the great help section!) but I'm not entirely sure what to do now to execute the offer.
Status now is "Waiting on Payment". Should I just send payment to the seller's address now?

Yes, that is exactly it. It recognised your payment as a valid one and is now waiting for the payment from the address that send the Purchase Offer. You might need to lock your unspent outputs to make sure the payment comes from the right address. Also note that you need to pay in time, the time set out by the original Selling Offer. Hope this explains it a bit more.

Thanks for the explanation. The timeout is specified in number of blocks, is that correct? And does Mastercoin-explorer mark an purchase offer invalid if it is not paid within the required timeframe?

The timeout is indeed specified in the number of blocks. If all goes well it should indeed change the status to expired and flag it as invalid if you don't pay within the proper timeframe

However this is not instant when a block if found but happens on a 15 minute interval, it might be a bit lagging.

My first purchase offer expired, I definitely waited longer than 6 blocks. But I made another purchase offer and paid right after creating it, so the timeout should be no problem. However, it's marked as expired:
http://mastercoin-explorer.com/transactions/ee77b1382633f8a5def69b444d319548b304ad93d8bb73505f7ff1c5755fac18

What am I missing here?

Maxmint - that looks like my sell offer--just haven't gotten around to completing the test purchase as work has been nuts.  If you do happen to complete the purchase before reading this, I'll send back the btc.

[maxmint]

Could you link me all the transactions involved so I can check it out?

Of course.

Purchase offer:
http://mastercoin-explorer.com/transactions/ee77b1382633f8a5def69b444d319548b304ad93d8bb73505f7ff1c5755fac18
https://blockchain.info/tx/ee77b1382633f8a5def69b444d319548b304ad93d8bb73505f7ff1c5755fac18

Payment TX:
https://blockchain.info/tx/b9c6eb9e24c9c22ed7717c772d5bf5e4d50bef8e8e9e586113013dbaca33a79d

Maybe I was too slow?

[maxmint]

Maxmint - that looks like my sell offer--just haven't gotten around to completing the test purchase as work has been nuts.  If you do happen to complete the purchase before reading this, I'll send back the btc.

Thanks, but no need to send back – it's just small amounts. Also, I wanna buy your shiny Test Mastercoins

[superfluouso]

Maxmint - that looks like my sell offer--just haven't gotten around to completing the test purchase as work has been nuts.  If you do happen to complete the purchase before reading this, I'll send back the btc.

Thanks, but no need to send back – it's just small amounts. Also, I wanna buy your shiny Test Mastercoins
[/quote

Haha- ok.  We'll have the distinction of the first person to person exchange.

I think we need to move this kind of discussion to a testing specific thread as I'm sure there will be much more and posting here might be to distracting.

[dacoinminster]

Maxmint - that looks like my sell offer--just haven't gotten around to completing the test purchase as work has been nuts.  If you do happen to complete the purchase before reading this, I'll send back the btc.

Thanks, but no need to send back – it's just small amounts. Also, I wanna buy your shiny Test Mastercoins

Haha- ok.  We'll have the distinction of the first person to person exchange.

I think we need to move this kind of discussion to a testing specific thread as I'm sure there will be much more and posting here might be to distracting.

Hey guys,

This testing looks like it probably qualifies for a payout from the coding contest.

You don't have to post on the coding contest thread if you don't want to, but I know the devs appreciate seeing stuff like this separated out from the general discussion.

The thread, for convenience: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=292628.0

Thanks for testing!!

I hope everybody is aware of what a huge payout we are offering for testing, code-reviewing, and bug reports. This contest alone has 100BTC reserved entirely for paying people who help with that. (For perspective, some very smart people in this community are running bitcoin projects which don't have that much in their entire budget! We're very fortunate in this regard.) I hope we'll see a lot more testers step in as we move forward with this.

[Tachikoma]

Could you link me all the transactions involved so I can check it out?

Of course.

Purchase offer:
http://mastercoin-explorer.com/transactions/ee77b1382633f8a5def69b444d319548b304ad93d8bb73505f7ff1c5755fac18
https://blockchain.info/tx/ee77b1382633f8a5def69b444d319548b304ad93d8bb73505f7ff1c5755fac18

Payment TX:
https://blockchain.info/tx/b9c6eb9e24c9c22ed7717c772d5bf5e4d50bef8e8e9e586113013dbaca33a79d

Maybe I was too slow?

Nope, you send it in time. Only five blocks so should have worked. I'm going to dive into this one now and see if I can find out why it thinks it expired! Will get back to you asap. The good thing is as long as you did what the spec prescribes you are in the clear. I just need to tweak the software to work as well as the words in the spec

Edit: Think I spotted my error; working on a fix now.

Edit 2: Fixed deployed! Could you verify everything is as expected now? Also congrats on being the first non-dev to make an actual purchase

[maxmint]

Edit 2: Fixed deployed! Could you verify everything is as expected now? Also congrats on being the first non-dev to make an actual purchase

Wow, that was fixed fast! And yes, everythings looks good now and behaves as expected.

I think we need to move this kind of discussion to a testing specific thread as I'm sure there will be much more and posting here might be to distracting.

You don't have to post on the coding contest thread if you don't want to, but I know the devs appreciate seeing stuff like this separated out from the general discussion.

Yes, you're right – I'll keep the main thread clean from bug reports.

[Tachikoma]

Thanks for testing it Maxmint, much appreciated.

[Luckybit]

Maxmint - that looks like my sell offer--just haven't gotten around to completing the test purchase as work has been nuts.  If you do happen to complete the purchase before reading this, I'll send back the btc.

Thanks, but no need to send back – it's just small amounts. Also, I wanna buy your shiny Test Mastercoins

Haha- ok.  We'll have the distinction of the first person to person exchange.

I think we need to move this kind of discussion to a testing specific thread as I'm sure there will be much more and posting here might be to distracting.

Hey guys,

This testing looks like it probably qualifies for a payout from the coding contest.

You don't have to post on the coding contest thread if you don't want to, but I know the devs appreciate seeing stuff like this separated out from the general discussion.

The thread, for convenience: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=292628.0

Thanks for testing!!

I hope everybody is aware of what a huge payout we are offering for testing, code-reviewing, and bug reports. This contest alone has 100BTC reserved entirely for paying people who help with that. (For perspective, some very smart people in this community are running bitcoin projects which don't have that much in their entire budget! We're very fortunate in this regard.) I hope we'll see a lot more testers step in as we move forward with this.

What are the rules for testing? I'd like to take part in that contest.

[dacoinminster]

What are the rules for testing? I'd like to take part in that contest.

Well, you help out however you can, making sure to post what you are doing publicly. Then at the end of the contest, you summarize everything you did, and we split up the money among contestants based on the opinions of myself and the other contestants and devs about how valuable each person's work was to the project. More valuable = more money. It is subjective though, and payout is highly dependent on how many other people are helping out and how much they are doing.

I've never seen anybody else do bounties this way, but it seemed to work pretty well for the last one we did.

[charleshoskinson]

Congrats with the reason article. It seems like they interviewed the best of the best.

[charleshoskinson]

reason magazine