MasterCoin: New Protocol Layer Starting From “The Exodus Address”

[Luckybit]

I think that Ripple is a powerful idea that has been badly mismanaged, and yes, it competes with MSC. Their focus on Peter owes Paul owes Sam owes Jake debt chains causes their true killer features to get lost in the noise. Nobody cares about collapsing debt chains, but distributed exchange is incredibly important. Perhaps they have fixed this marketing snafu (I haven't checked lately).

I also disagree with their XRP distribution model, and I am doubtful about the case for long-term appreciation of that currency. (Trivia: the MasterCoin giveaway thread was funded with MSC purchased with BTC I got for selling XRP I received from an early Ripple giveaway)

Finally, I think their system is way too complex, not sufficiently decentralized, not sufficiently open source (this may have changed since last I looked), and not flexible enough for other cool things people want to do with distributed currencies.

Other than that, I love Ripple.

You should check it again. Totally open-source since a month . I agree they are not good at communicating but their main aim is not bitcoin community but exchange platform like zipzap and future gateways. With more gateways and nodes the ripple network will be  distributed enough to be fair and honest.

New features are coming with "contracts". I don't think it's too complex, it can easily be integrated and someone could use a ripple wallet without even know about it. About flexibility I couldn't really tell I'm not competent enough to say.

XRP distribution model is particular but you don't need xrp to use ripple network (mm ok actually you need less than 1$ to fund a wallet...). About long-term appreciation I think it may appreciate if the network find more gateways and plateforms that use ripple. Otherwise it may also disappear (just like bitcoin or mastercoin actually since there's not real economy backing them).

I've been reading a lot about MSC, and my concern is that communication-wise we're repeating the same mistakes Ripple is blamed for in the quote above. Perhaps the concept is clear to everyone deeply involved, but I'm willing to bet there's heaps of people like me on the forum and Reddit who, even with their best efforts, just can't find a simple explanation about what MSC is, why do we need it and what are the practical, real-life use cases. How do we expect people to get excited about weekly newsletters if these basic things are not explained anywhere? Either MSC can't be explained in a simple way, in which case I'll become even more concerned about its feasibility, or people who truly get it are not trying hard enough to explain what's it about.

As an example, I tried to find a ELI5 for Mastercoin. There's two requests for that I found (here and here). To me neither explains much; they only demonstrate how bad the situation with common-sense introduction material is. If the mindset is that ELI5 request can be answered with a link to the whitepaper (read: technical system specifications) then we really, really need someone on board who understands communication.

It was good to read that a PR company will start working with MSC. Perhaps that will solve this issue in a month or two. In the mean time I would like to hear do you people agree what I say about the lack of ELI5-like material, or haven't I just been able to find it?

I have some posts with some thoughts on what a finished Mastercoin protocol could do. Honestly I think we need a series of videos just as there is with Bitcoin. Text can only explain so much.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=265488.msg3429661#msg3429661
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=318610.msg3436731#msg3436731
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=265488.msg3435101#msg3435101

If you don't want to read all those different overly wordy use cases. The main categories of users will be traditional users and issuers.

Traditional use cases:
If you're a traditional user then you'll want to do stuff you already can do but in a decentralized way. Maybe you want to do decentralized betting. Maybe you want to trade Bitcoins for Litecoins on a decentralized exchange built into the Bitcoin blockchain. Maybe you want to buy crypto-equity/stocks or bonds without having to worry about whether or not Burnside will shut the site down.

Issuers:
If you're an issuer then perhaps you're a business owner and you're issuing virtual stocks. If you're an issuer you might offer bonds or somethings similar. Or you might offer your own currency, voucher, credits, backed by your goods and services or backed by another currency.

So for example if you issue a currency you can back it by another issuers currency called goldcoins to back your currency by gold. This allows for redeemable cryptocurrencies and that is a game changer. Currently when people ask what Bitcoin is backed by we have to say it's not backed by anything. New currencies will actually be redeemable and backed by the goods and services of the issuer. This will provide long term stability.

I hope my explanation was of some help but I know it probably does not help. A visual illustration is needed and this will mean videos showing how it all can work.

Thanks for the links and the short summary, Luckybit. There's material that I'm sure helps people understand MSC's capabilities better, though some of the examples are a tad abstract.
I like the idea about video. That'll take time though, even if that idea goes forward. Perhaps as a first step the summary you wrote could be elaborated and copied to a suitable place where it's easy to find?

Currently when someone would like to learn about Mastercoin his options are limited to reading this 85+ pages of MSC discussions, and try to pick out all the right comments among the questions, answers, suggestions, criticism, decisions, and changes to previous decisions made 6 pages ago.
That's ironic as dacoinminster said Ripple is "way too complex". I wonder what people's first impression about Mastercoin is?  

I'm going through the same process myself. It took me a while to understand the inner workings of Mastercoin enough to send them and because it's constantly changing I haven't been able to even find a specification to even consider helping with development. I intend to wait until after the dust settles and there is a basic foundation to see what can be built on top of it. It is a protocol and nothing stops anyone from building on top of it once it's complete.

[dacoinminster]

Notice of proposed expenditure

Here is the invoice we will be paying shortly to our new PR firm I mentioned:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/19dog57jlmlH5RAU9nqPxbXrFcAGoPX9TMD2BwZX8SDaoRvnIV1q_RcZMU01D/edit?usp=sharing

Payment will be $18k in BTC sent to 1DnY4oupZSipeRVVJ3vw3zJTnEcjY5mQ2C

The board has approved this expense. It is being posted here for transparency.

I've asked SocialRadius if they have somebody on this forum who can confirm that address publicly.

[TKeenan]

Here is the invoice we will be paying shortly to our new PR firm I mentioned:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/19dog57jlmlH5RAU9nqPxbXrFcAGoPX9TMD2BwZX8SDaoRvnIV1q_RcZMU01D/edit?usp=sharing

It is very nice of you to be so transparent on these matters.  Will you also be as transparent with regard to the accomplishments made by these people?  I'd like to at least see a summary of their work product when the 18k is consumed.

[mindtomatter]

Notice of proposed expenditure

Here is the invoice we will be paying shortly to our new PR firm I mentioned:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/19dog57jlmlH5RAU9nqPxbXrFcAGoPX9TMD2BwZX8SDaoRvnIV1q_RcZMU01D/edit?usp=sharing

Payment will be $18k in BTC sent to 1DnY4oupZSipeRVVJ3vw3zJTnEcjY5mQ2C

The board has approved this expense. It is being posted here for transparency.

I've asked SocialRadius if they have somebody on this forum who can confirm that address publicly.

You're paying 18k for 3 months of an agency handling your social networking?

Man, I'm not charging enough for sponsoring Let's Talk Bitcoin.

[dacoinminster]

You're paying 18k for 3 months of an agency handling your social networking?

Man, I'm not charging enough for sponsoring Let's Talk Bitcoin.

Yes, the board was unanimous on pushing for this, and won me over. We're essentially paying for SocialRadius to use their large rolodex to contact tech writers who might be interested in introducing the masses to our project. We're trying to reach beyond the bitcoin community, which is why it is so expensive.

[mindtomatter]

You could have just asked me  How many stories are they going to deliver for that kind of money in three months?   Are they going do prepare any marketing collateral or explainer documents about Mastercoin or just do the cold-calling?

edit:
18k wouldn't be expensive if you were a standard corporation spending on building a brand, but that's not really what Mastercoin is.  As an innovation in and of itself and the first meta-layer being built on top of the very popular topic of Bitcoin, that doesn't really need the same sort of massaging to make it into an interesting story.  It requires people who understand it and can translate with accuracy into layman speak, specifically laymen reporter speak.    Getting concepts in front of writers is not hard at all, but getting them to understand the topic enough to accurately write about it for their audience is a much harder proposition and will be the primary barrier you face bringing Mastercoin to the masses.

That's all I'm saying, that's a big expense for something that should be free - Spend the money on developing really accessible informational and educational materials, not paying for connections.  

[vokain]

You're paying 18k for 3 months of an agency handling your social networking?

Man, I'm not charging enough for sponsoring Let's Talk Bitcoin.

Yes, the board was unanimous on pushing for this, and won me over. We're essentially paying for SocialRadius to use their large rolodex to contact tech writers who might be interested in introducing the masses to our project. We're trying to reach beyond the bitcoin community, which is why it is so expensive.

Reiterating Luckybit's suggestion two pages ago, can we leverage the first article or two and submit a good summary and direction piece to Slashdot as well?

[dillpicklechips]

Is it possible to somehow use the technique colored coins use to mark all existing mastercoins? If all mastercoins could be forked or alterted it would mean mastercoin could lose its dependence on having to trace all mastercoins back to the exodus address and they would be able to act similar to colored coins and would allow trustless light clients. The huge gain from the fork would be huge and everyone would still have the same number of mastercoins.

[maxmint]

You could have just asked me  How many stories are they going to deliver for that kind of money in three months?   Are they going do prepare any marketing collateral or explainer documents about Mastercoin or just do the cold-calling?

edit:
18k wouldn't be expensive if you were a standard corporation spending on building a brand, but that's not really what Mastercoin is.  As an innovation in and of itself and the first meta-layer being built on top of the very popular topic of Bitcoin, that doesn't really need the same sort of massaging to make it into an interesting story.  It requires people who understand it and can translate with accuracy into layman speak, specifically laymen reporter speak.    Getting concepts in front of writers is not hard at all, but getting them to understand the topic enough to accurately write about it for their audience is a much harder proposition and will be the primary barrier you face bringing Mastercoin to the masses.

That's all I'm saying, that's a big expense for something that should be free - Spend the money on developing really accessible informational and educational materials, not paying for connections.

I think Adam has a point here. People consistently ask for easy to understand "ELI5" info on Mastercoin, yet there's next to nothing available. I'm confident that SocialRadius will do a good job in getting the word out - but what exactly will be the word?

[charleshoskinson]

That's all I'm saying, that's a big expense for something that should be free - Spend the money on developing really accessible informational and educational materials, not paying for connections.

For 18k BEP could have given you a hell of a lot of value. Adam could have given you a lot of value. Guys marketing is a game of finding the least bloodsucking vampire. This was a major waste of money for what you are trying to accomplish. I'm sorry to hear you weren't more transparent with your investor's money. The community would have helped you.

[dacoinminster]

I think Adam has a point here. People consistently ask for easy to understand "ELI5" info on Mastercoin, yet there's next to nothing available. I'm confident that SocialRadius will do a good job in getting the word out - but what exactly will be the word?

Yeah, they are writing our "facts sheet", which we will then review and correct as needed.

That's all I'm saying, that's a big expense for something that should be free - Spend the money on developing really accessible informational and educational materials, not paying for connections.

For 18k BEP could have given you a hell of a lot of value. Adam could have given you a lot of value. Guys marketing is a game of finding the least bloodsucking vampire. This was a major waste of money for what you are trying to accomplish. I'm sorry to hear you weren't more transparent with your investor's money. The community would have helped you.

I realize this is a controversial expense, but I didn't assemble our board of seasoned bitcoin entrepreneurs who have made huge investments into MasterCoin just to ignore their repeatedly stated unanimous opinion. At some point I have to trust that they know what they are talking about. BigAngels has been using this very same firm to great success, and they now give SocialRadius a huge amount of credit for their rapid growth as a VC group. The bet we are making here is that SocialRadius can work that same magic for us.

I personally expect that they will not have a difficult time getting the press interested in this project, and I think SocialRadius will probably score some huge stories in mainstream press, and they will come out of this contract smelling like roses and well-positioned to pick up business from other bitcoin start-ups who see what they did for us.

[superfluouso]

Speaking of press - Here's a nice write up from Vitalik Buterin at bitcoin magazine

[dacoinminster]

Speaking of press - Here's a nice write up from Vitalik Buterin at bitcoin magazine

Holy Cow! That's an amazing write-up!

I also posted it on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1pwc1d/bitcoin_magazine_on_mastercoin_a_secondgeneration/ (our reddit threads in /r/bitcoin always fill up with FUD - I appreciate anybody who has a reddit account and can answer the trolls that will come)

Nobody beats Vitalik when it comes to in-depth write-ups on bitcoin tech. I had heard he was researching MasterCoin, and I was hoping, hoping, hoping we'd see an article from him

Here's hoping we merit an article in the print edition at some point

[charleshoskinson]

here are a lot of people on bitcointalk who don't realize there are two sides to every coin and let their PR/Marketing hate blind them. The articles and exposure that come out of this will be great and I know I'm looking forward to see how this brings new interest and talent to the project.

The value of PR does not escape me. When I founded Invictus with Daniel, we got all marketing done for free and for the Bitcoin Education Project we have nearly 10k students with no marketing cost whatsoever. The very first stage of any project like BitShares or Mastercoin is to figure out what you want to explain and who you want to explain it to. Ripple has had this issue for a long time and it isn't going away.

18K working with Adam and some tech writers/ video people would have gotten tons of professional, readable content for distribution on youtube, LTB, facebook and reddit. If your users like the message and the product, then they market for you. I hate to Monday morning quarterback, but this one was a mistake.

[klee]

dacoin et al, could it be correct to say that the ability to make Mastercoin like protocols on top of Bitcoin blockchain, strengthens it's intrinsic value?

I was watching a video talking about Bitcoin & Gold and the usual intrinsic value argument..

[charleshoskinson]

Alright, well no sense fretting over spilled milk. JR, let's make a video for BEP's udemy class on Mastercoin. Let's not repeat the mistakes of Ripple. PM me

[dacoinminster]

Alright, well no sense fretting over spilled milk. JR, let's make a video for BEP's udemy class on Mastercoin. Let's not repeat the mistakes of Ripple. PM me

I don't know anything about BEP, but I'm happy to learn!

Rather than PM you, I'll just say that you, and anybody else here, can reach me at jr (dot) willett (at) gmail (dot) com - I'm always eager to discuss MasterCoin marketing ideas, especially when they come from someone who until recently was heavily involved in working on the very interesting bitshares project (a project with similar goals to MasterCoin).

[solex]

Speaking of press - Here's a nice write up from Vitalik Buterin at bitcoin magazine

Holy Cow! That's an amazing write-up!
...
Here's hoping we merit an article in the print edition at some point

Fantastic write-up indeed! Soon there will be articles about Mastercoin in mainstream media, but I can imagine the description of what it can do as Chinese whispers on steroids. I am still reading that Bitcoins are mined by "solving complex mathematical problems". So the best hope for public understanding will be seeing this tech in action.

[ripper234]

I'd like to point the attention of y'all to a very interesting thread that Vitalik started about implementing Contracts for Differences in Mastercoin.

I believe this is The Missing Link - a surefire way to implement any kind of asset on mastercoin (Backed Currencies is highly experimental ... might work, might fail - this one will definitely work).

[djohnston]

J.R.,

As per your transparency request I can confirm that Michael's email included the following public Bitcoin address.

Michael Terpin:
_____
"I can confirm that I received the email (I'm in a car coming from my Bitcoin talk in Waterloo) and that the BTC address you have is correct: 1DnY4oupZSipeRVVJ3vw3zJTnEcjY5mQ2C  "
_____

I can also confirm the Board vote was unanimous for engaging Michael Terpin's Social Radius (the same group that represents BitAngels) and that the Board members had to overcome your skepticism about engaging a professional firm or paying for Press Relations at all.

Just to offer my two Bit cents, into the conversation I've been building software companies for a while (12 years) and I used to not spend much time, energy or money on engaging press. Over the last 4 or 5 years, though I've started understanding the value of spreading my message more widely and the more I've done so, the more successful my ventures have become. I think it has a lot to do with the "network effect".

Free media is great too, but the truth is Tech Crunch, Venture Beat and tech out lets with 10,000,000 + tech readers are overloaded with people emailing them about stories and end up developing reliable and trusted sources on different subjects. Michael is a trusted source on Bitcoin. Just see his recent thought leadership piece on the subject of Bitcoin, http://venturebeat.com/2013/10/18/bitcoins-road-from-perdition-what-will-hurt-and-help-the-controversial-digital-currency/

Plus in addition Michael has been into the features we are developing with Mastercoin since the early 1990's when he helped found some internet 1.0 companies. Including one that was going to do smart property on the web (but the tools didn't exist yet) so he ended up founding Market Wire (first internet Press Release company) in 1996.

I really do thing Michael is the right guy, for the right reasons, with the right experience for this task.  

-DJohnston