Actual Bitcoin commerce vs. speculation

[N12]

Wordpress (Nov 2012 to July 2013):

94 successful transactions so far, pretty low.

Humble Bundle:

The Humble Double Fine Bundle was actually our first bundle to support it, which came out last month. It represents less than .1% of our sales for Humble Indie Bundle 8, which is pretty surprising for me.

There was also bitcoinstore.com which repeatedly failed to achieve its goals to maintain their low prices.

Do you guys know of any other stats?

Update 1st October: Silk Road is dead, and we now know how much business it had:

The total revenue generated from launch until July 23, 2013, resulted in approximately 9,519,664 Bitcoins and 614,305 Bitcoins of commission for Silk Road itself, court documents reveal. That converts to roughly $1.2 billion in revenue and $79.8 million in commissions, at current Bitcoin prices.

Today, is there anything Bitcoin is actually used for in meaningful transactional volumes besides drugs (SR), gambling (SD), speculation and mining equipment?

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[PrintMule]

I'm guessing there's not. Call me pessimist.

[ElectricMucus]

What are the incentives to spend Bitcoin rather than selling them and spending the Fiat anyway?

I've bought plenty of stuff "with Bitcoin" but besides the #1 issue of the Bitcoin magazine and the Bitcoin Keychain I've never done so directly.

[vokain]

Yes, until we get more suppliers that take bitcoin, the end result will typically be a conversion to fiat for merchants. This isn't a bad thing, it's just a way to conduct business logically. They'll likely fully switch over when more and more suppliers of what they need do take bitcoin so they no longer have to convert to USD, in addition to saving lost profits from fiat inflation, but til then, won't. The important thing is, it's this circulation that will increase bitcoin worth. The increasing tendency is to hold coins, it just will be done by more hands. This seems to definitely be a trend.

Also, the cool thing is, when they sell, someone's buying the coin who typically will intend to buy low and sell high, keeping prices stable.

[ElectricMucus]

IMO it is a misapprehension of Bitcoin's economic role to see it as primarily an end-user currency.

Right the almighty supposed B2B killer usage.
Keep telling yourself that it will happen, the Banks are literally at our doorsteps.

LOL
PS: Do not forget to bring Max Kaiser, Bruce Wagner and the Winklevoss Bros, perhaps rpietila will host another conference just for you!

[vokain]

IMO it is a misapprehension of Bitcoin's economic role to see it as primarily an end-user currency.

Right the almighty supposed B2B killer usage.
Keep telling yourself that it will happen, the Banks are literally at our doorsteps.

LOL

It is of my opinion that we are getting closer to B2B (bitcoin-to-bitcoin?). At least closer than we were before. These things take time, as I understand it...
and I think he's referring to Bitcoin's economic role as a constant float in a sea of inflation etc.

[ElectricMucus]

That was supposed to be Bank to Bank or (more conservatively) Business to Business. I think you've read the tales of how Bitcoins are supposed to become the financial backbone of the new world order. (sorry for the pun)

[vokain]

That was supposed to be Bank to Bank or (more conservatively) Business to Business. I think you've read the tales of how Bitcoins are supposed to become the financial backbone of the new world order. (sorry for the pun)

i have read those tales. Perhaps not NWO as we come to know it from conspiracists, but a form of a new world order regardless? Especially if the pyramid of fiat collapses. there would be a new order to the world, no?

[Melbustus]

Agree with chodpaba that it's not necessarily correct to view bitcoin primarily as a consumer-driver every-day transactions currency. Even relatively small usage along those lines is enough to enable/unlock bitcoin's myriad other value props.

That said, in response to the OP, do BitPay and Bips publish their transaction numbers?

[PerfectAgent]

That was supposed to be Bank to Bank or (more conservatively) Business to Business. I think you've read the tales of how Bitcoins are supposed to become the financial backbone of the new world order. (sorry for the pun)

i have read those tales. Perhaps not NWO as we come to know it from conspiracists, but a form of a new world order regardless? Especially if the pyramid of fiat collapses. there would be a new order to the world, no?

Yeah, I guess calling it "a new world order" is more accurate. It doesn't refer to that specific conspiracy one, and there would be a new order to the world, given more freedom. I think ElectricMucus was referring to that kind, seeing as the lower case was used.

[vokain]

It is my hope that at that point, as time progresses and the things you can do with each bitcoin increases, its value becomes inextricably mated to the ecosystem that underlies it. A year ago, I doubt I could've found an illustrator without having to convince him to take bitcoins. Now, I have a commission, and an illustrator seeked me out and offers to do my request for 0.5BTC.  I think that's pretty cool. This goes back to the 2 pizzas, 10000BTC idea

[randrace]

I am one of those types that got into BTC as an investment but ended up enjoying spending them more than saving them. I've purchased a straight razor, sold some shaving soap to a guy in Poland, payed my hosting bill in BTC and LTC, and bought silver. I like the ease of use and lack of fees compared to PayPal.

Only about 10% of the money I spend online is in BTC, but I forsee that changing. I think cryptocurrencies will be the de facto way the world spends money on the internet within a few years.

About bitcoinstore.com failing: I checked them out with BTC to burn, but their prices did not bowl me over.

[notme]

About bitcoinstore.com failing: I checked them out with BTC to burn, but their prices did not bowl me over.

I thought the prices were good, but finding what I wanted was painful.

[vokain]

About bitcoinstore.com failing: I checked them out with BTC to burn, but their prices did not bowl me over.

I thought the prices were good, but finding what I wanted was painful.

I gave up trying to find an SSD I wanted

[phelix]

Do you guys know of any other stats?

Today, is there anything Bitcoin is actually used for in meaningful transactional volumes besides drugs (SR), gambling (SD), speculation and mining equipment?

Buying drinks at bars.

In Munich/Germany/EU there is a bar called "Niederlassung" (http://niederlassung.org). In the last five month they have made approximately 3.7BTC, ~$370 in Bitcoin. I am sure, they made an additional turnover of at least $700 in € from Bitcoin regulars that payed in €. This does not yet include free advertising. So they made a turnover of more than $1000 at what cost? Virtually nothing. They are running a laptop for other purposes anyway and simply installed Multibit. They printed a QR code on a piece of paper and put it up on the wall.

If you have a computer at the counter accepting Bitcoin comes at such a small effort it will always pay off.

[williamcoates]

I've been quite impressed with the bitcoin sales we get at www.digital-tunes.net, some months approaching 1% of sales. To be honest I didn't think there would be that much usage, so I'm happy. And best of all no fraud worries to deal with.

[niothor]

Do you guys know of any other stats?

Today, is there anything Bitcoin is actually used for in meaningful transactional volumes besides drugs (SR), gambling (SD), speculation and mining equipment?

Buying drinks at bars.

In Munich/Germany/EU there is a bar called "Niederlassung" (http://niederlassung.org). In the last five month they have made approximately 3.7BTC, ~$370 in Bitcoin. I am sure, they made an additional turnover of at least $700 in € from Bitcoin regulars that payed in €. This does not yet include free advertising. So they made a turnover of more than $1000 at what cost? Virtually nothing. They are running a laptop for other purposes anyway and simply installed Multibit. They printed a QR code on a piece of paper and put it up on the wall.

If you have a computer at the counter accepting Bitcoin comes at such a small effort it will always pay off.

370$ in 5 months.How much is a beer there?
On their price list it comes at 3euros ... make that 4$.

So you're telling me that they sold 90 of the cheapest beers in 5 months via bitcoin ?
Just to cash out those bitcoins it will cost them more than giving a free beer a day )))))

Ps. Bitcoin regulars that payed in euros are more like Euro Regulars.

[ElectricMucus]

Do you guys know of any other stats?

Today, is there anything Bitcoin is actually used for in meaningful transactional volumes besides drugs (SR), gambling (SD), speculation and mining equipment?

Buying drinks at bars.

In Munich/Germany/EU there is a bar called "Niederlassung" (http://niederlassung.org). In the last five month they have made approximately 3.7BTC, ~$370 in Bitcoin. I am sure, they made an additional turnover of at least $700 in € from Bitcoin regulars that payed in €. This does not yet include free advertising. So they made a turnover of more than $1000 at what cost? Virtually nothing. They are running a laptop for other purposes anyway and simply installed Multibit. They printed a QR code on a piece of paper and put it up on the wall.

If you have a computer at the counter accepting Bitcoin comes at such a small effort it will always pay off.

370$ in 5 months.How much is a beer there?
On their price list it comes at 3euros ... make that 4$.

So you're telling me that they sold 90 of the cheapest beers in 5 months via bitcoin ?
Just to cash out those bitcoins it will cost them more than giving a free beer a day )))))

Ps. Bitcoin regulars that payed in euros are more like Euro Regulars.

It's probably worse. That 370Euro would come from a single regular who recently has become a Bitcoin zealot and the owner plays along to keep him.
So it's not an actual increase in turnover.

[oda.krell]

[...]

It's probably worse. That 370Euro would come from a single regular who recently has become a Bitcoin zealot and the owner plays along to keep him.
So it's not an actual increase in turnover.

To abuse your own sig:

There's a tendency for every discussion about evidence of btc commerce to turn into a metaphysical investigation of what exactly constitutes "evidence" and "commerce".

Blitz originally asked about "meaningful transaction volume". Fair enough, the Munich situation is hardly evidence for this.  But phelix' point was: "If you have a computer at the counter accepting Bitcoin comes at such a small effort it will always pay off." That's not challenged by the claim that it's only 1 guy paying in btc.

[ElectricMucus]

[...]

It's probably worse. That 370Euro would come from a single regular who recently has become a Bitcoin zealot and the owner plays along to keep him.
So it's not an actual increase in turnover.

To abuse your own sig:

There's a tendency for every discussion about evidence of btc commerce to turn into a metaphysical investigation of what exactly constitutes "evidence" and "commerce".

Blitz originally asked about "meaningful transaction volume". Fair enough, the Munich situation is hardly evidence for this.  But phelix' point was: "If you have a computer at the counter accepting Bitcoin comes at such a small effort it will always pay off." That's not challenged by the claim that it's only 1 guy paying in btc.

It is if the guy would have bought the same stuff anyway.

The whole thing is besides the point though. 3.7 Bitcoins hardly qualify as meaningful transaction value, by any measure,  given the time period.