Cointerra Mining ASIC coming soon

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... 1.  they can raise from private investors.. in which case they wont be selling their asics as its more profitable to mine with them.. ...

Sorry for nitpicking, but selling chips is more profitable than mining.  AsicMiner is case in point, with business model involving sales of demonstrably unprofitable gear.  

thats ok to nitpick.  i really dont think its as clear cut as that.

if you are building a secret mine.. your boxes dont need to be user friendly.  they may not need their own controllers or power supplies cos you can build out shared facilities.  they might not even be air cooled.. as you can use facilities' water to cool them externally.

building a secret mine, you dont need a sales department nor a customer support department.  you need minimal skeleton staff to keep your mine running and you dont need any externally facing employees at all.

building a secret mine, you can overclock and overdrive your own hardware much harder than you would allow a customer to do it.. since if it blows up, its your own fault and you can take the risks you wouldnt let your customers take.   In fact, the hardware can be more bare bones... you may not even need a case for it.. you can simply slot bare boards in racks.

and ultimately, selling hardware requires you to have a markup to justify selling it.   whereas, if you are buying at cost price, you get to mine at a lower cost.

thus, i argue that operating a secret mine could well be more profitable and controllable, than taking pre-orders and selling boxes to customers.  It all depends on how easily you can sell and at what price you can sell to customers.   Since Cointerra is selling their TH's at a lower price than anyone else, i think its safe to say that they arent making the same profit per box that the other guys are selling, so you cant exactly accuse them of profiteering.. can you !?

(edit) Actually, to nitpick a bit further and take your words literally, you said Selling CHIPS was more profitable.. and i think thats the key.  Selling CHIPS is indeed much more profitable.  But most of the new guys dont sell chips... or, tried and didnt find traction.. maybe these new 28nm chips are too complex and require too sophisticated a board.. or maybe they need to try harder, as clearly, if they were to sell chips, they dont have the huge box costs associated with them and its a much better business to sell chips than to sell fully built working boxes.

I agree with most of what you say, with just a few exceptions:

The main one being i'm not arguing that mining is inevitably less profitable than selling, merely that it *can be*, and we have many examples where it's been shown to be.

Then there's the "overclock your own mining gear" argument.  That one just doesn't work IRL.  You will typically find just the opposite to be true -- Industrial gear being understressed & overbuilt, to improve uptime & reduce maintenance.  Once you have an easily scalable model, it's much more effective to simply scale scale scale, and forget squeezing out the last few %.  The cool thing about having a maskset is scaling up is as easy as ordering more from the baker & outsourcing assembly.  Rinse & repeat.

Also, the whole point of ASICs is they require very few external parts -- the boards are relatively cheap & simple.

But i do agree with most of what you say -- this stuff is perfect for huge scale.

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We believe that the best companies in the industry can do is be transparent to the customers and this is something we intend to be.

https://picostocks.com/businessplan/31

 

We will be communicating more information on the Picostocks listing. In short I can say that the Picostocks listing is not CoinTerra as a corporate entity selling shares but rather Picostocks as a company investing in CoinTerra and selling a form of pass-through ownership. We have a conversation open with Picostocks and will be making a clarifying statement regarding this.

I get it.  If Frankie's dad had some APPL stock, i could buy shares in Apple from Frankie, amirite?
I'd like to announce a new Cointerra stock offering.
I own shares in Cointerra pass-through on Picostocks, and am too selling Cointerra shares.
PROFFIT.
What can possibly go wrong?

[Dagger75]

Us Miners HAVE to stick together because for the last 18 Months we've been getting SCREWED by many of these various ASIC companies.  Greed is out of control in Bitcoin atm and unless we want the rich and "well to do" taking over mining completely we need to watch out for each other and Support local and group projects and not allow our fellow miners to purchase equipment that'll never get a ROI let alone any type of profit.  I know i'd rather see Bitcoin prosper for the right reasons instead of just to line the pockets of VC's and their various "Companies"

I know things are always much more completed but seriously, most of us see our fellow miners getting shafted several times a days and we all need to start supporting one another instead of just thinking it's cool to troll the forums and get entertained by others suffering....

This is not Aimed at Cointerra in particular as they can atleast offer the lowest cost per GH but still looking to be a major ROI concern when the product is ever shipped later this Winter or early 2014.

Sorry for offtopic but we gotta do something

[Ytterbium]

Us Miners HAVE to stick together because for the last 18 Months we've been getting SCREWED by many of these various ASIC companies.  Greed is out of control in Bitcoin atm and unless we want the rich and "well to do" taking over mining completely we need to watch out for each other and Support local and group projects and not allow our fellow miners to purchase equipment that'll never get a ROI let alone any type of profit.  I know i'd rather see Bitcoin prosper for the right reasons instead of just to line the pockets of VC's and their various "Companies"

I know things are always much more completed but seriously, most of us see our fellow miners getting shafted several times a days and we all need to start supporting one another instead of just thinking it's cool to troll the forums and get entertained by others suffering....

This is not Aimed at Cointerra in particular as they can atleast offer the lowest cost per GH but still looking to be a major ROI concern when the product is ever shipped later this Winter or early 2014.

Sorry for offtopic but we gotta do something

There is nothing you can do about it. This is what happens in a free market.

[spiccioli]

... 1.  they can raise from private investors.. in which case they wont be selling their asics as its more profitable to mine with them.. ...

Sorry for nitpicking, but selling chips is more profitable than mining.  AsicMiner is case in point, with business model involving sales of demonstrably unprofitable gear.  

But this business model is dead now...

See my sig for the best business model right now

Sure! losing 10% to 20% a day since monday and more than 50% since it started, per each GH/s you own, is the right business model... to go bankrupt.

spiccioli

[Paladin69]

Us Miners HAVE to stick together because for the last 18 Months we've been getting SCREWED by many of these various ASIC companies.  Greed is out of control in Bitcoin atm and unless we want the rich and "well to do" taking over mining completely we need to watch out for each other and Support local and group projects and not allow our fellow miners to purchase equipment that'll never get a ROI let alone any type of profit.  I know i'd rather see Bitcoin prosper for the right reasons instead of just to line the pockets of VC's and their various "Companies"

I know things are always much more completed but seriously, most of us see our fellow miners getting shafted several times a days and we all need to start supporting one another instead of just thinking it's cool to troll the forums and get entertained by others suffering....

This is not Aimed at Cointerra in particular as they can atleast offer the lowest cost per GH but still looking to be a major ROI concern when the product is ever shipped later this Winter or early 2014.

Sorry for offtopic but we gotta do something

I hate to be grim but mining is dead for the average guy.  You will be much better off getting refunds and buying direct.  Then just sit and hold.  You will be much happier in 2-3 years than chasing the difficulty.  I thought the difficulty would run away from everyone starting Spring to Summer next year.  It has already started instead.

[maursader]

Hello maursader,
we would love to have you visit our office and meet the team. I will PM you and we can set up a date for you to visit our offices and the beautiful city of Austin.

Didn't get that PM yet, see below:

@cointerra, I have sent you a PM.

Still waiting on that reply. I hope this doesn't signify the speed at which potential consumers will receive their ASIC machines. Seriously.

[cointerra]

Hello maursader,
we would love to have you visit our office and meet the team. I will PM you and we can set up a date for you to visit our offices and the beautiful city of Austin.

Didn't get that PM yet, see below:

@cointerra, I have sent you a PM.

Still waiting on that reply. I hope this doesn't signify the speed at which potential consumers will receive their ASIC machines. Seriously.

Hello Maursader,
We apologize for the delay. PM'd you promptly after the post, not sure why you did not get the message. Sending you another message asap so that we can plan for your visit.

The CoinTerra Team

[ralree]

1.  If it gets you 30% speed improvement... (all your hash engines go faster)
2.  AND it gets you 1.9x the density (double the number of hash engines)
3.  AND its 25% lower power (probably means more hash engines can be used without hitting thermal limits)

No, that's not what TSMC's page says:

TSMC's 20nm process technology can provide 30 percent higher speed,
1.9 times the density,
or 25 percent less power than its 28nm technology.

http://www.tsmc.com/english/dedicatedFoundry/technology/20nm.htm

So no, it seem like it does ALL of these things - you have to pick one.  Of course, this could just be a badly written blurb, and perhaps you do get all these things.  If that's true, 20nm would be a possible foe for 28nm BTC ASICs.  Of course, pricing seems astronomical, so ROI would be a LOT slower.  That will change down the road, though.

[jayeeyee]

Are Cointerra legit?  Do they seem capable of delivering on time?  I don't want to see another BFL fiasco/clusterfu*k.

[RoadStress]

Are Cointerra legit?  Do they seem capable of delivering on time?  I don't want to see another BFL fiasco/clusterfu*k.

What do you think about this? Your personal opinion.

[Bicknellski]

Are Cointerra legit?  Do they seem capable of delivering on time?  I don't want to see another BFL fiasco/clusterfu*k.

Haters going to hate (I read that in a BFL thread somewhere)

[Puppet]

Are Cointerra legit?  Do they seem capable of delivering on time?  I don't want to see another BFL fiasco/clusterfu*k.

What do you think about this? Your personal opinion.

Legit? Yes, cant be any reasonable doubt.
Able to deliver? As in having the ability to pull it off, yes, no reasonable doubt there either. Will they? Who the fuck knows. Even intel sometimes misses their time tables. So far, not a single bitcoin asic vendor has come to market without some delay in their planning (yeah even bitfury). It seems reasonable to add at least a few weeks to their published timelines.

Of course the most important question is omitted: even if they pull it off, ship on time and within spec, will it be profitable? My opinion: nop.

Everyone wants to make money mining, the simple fact is that as more people want that, the less they will earn and far too many are already invested to warrant the current hardware prices. Just wait a few months and see what happens.

[cointerra]

Hello,
Just wanted to weight in and let everyone know that we are still on target for our delivery dates.

[Wesly]

Hello,
Just wanted to weight in and let everyone know that we are still on target for our delivery dates.

Does that mean your GoldStrike1 ASIC chip has taped out?

[testerx]

Cointerra, is there any way that you guys could deliver more hashrate to the December orders?  At the rate difficulty has skyrocketed the December orders are not going to be able to recoup the cost difference between themselves and orders from one month later.  KNC Miner ended up shipping about double the initially promised hashrate and I think something similar would be very beneficial.  Right now it's looking like it will be impossible to recoup the $8000 cost difference between your batches and unless you want people demanding refunds en masse I think increasing the amount of hashrate you're shipping to the early adopters would ease a lot of concerns.  I don't know how much is the right amount but as of right now there's no way 2 terahash is going to be enough to recoup the difference, barring some insane explosion in BTC price (which is going down).

Please consider this, I know a lot of us are really reconsidering our purchases. 

[DPoS]

2TH in Jan is like having a couple Avalons right now

They'd have to sell 20TH for $5,000 to get anyone to sign up now for Jan

[ralree]

Cointerra, is there any way that you guys could deliver more hashrate to the December orders?

This would make January customers rather angry unless they got the same benefit. 

At the rate difficulty has skyrocketed the December orders are not going to be able to recoup the cost difference between themselves and orders from one month later.

I never could understand how they could cut their prices so low for just a 1 month difference.  I wouldn't be surprised if more people ask to be moved into the January order queue.  I even ran the analysis on $10K Terraminer IVs ($5/GH), and even that doesn't make sense for the same investment after April (eg. 4 machines at $6K each versus 3 machines at $10K each). 

Perhaps it would be better to cancel your December orders and double your hashrate in January.  Just saying..

[ralree]

2TH in Jan is like having a couple Avalons right now

They'd have to sell 20TH for $5,000 to get anyone to sign up now for Jan

So 120GH/s now is like 2TH/s in January?  So you're saying the difficulty will be ~16x higher in January (6,450,000,000).  I really don't think the difficulty will be that high in a couple short months - it basically makes no sense.  Even if every single unit on this page ships, we're only at 20PH (~6x diff increase):

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=283820.0

And TONS of that equipment will not ship by January.

[DPoS]

just saying people are gunshy  - need to put bigger bait on the lure