Bitcoin irony

[vokain]

Read my replies.

I have read your replies and reached the conclusion that you are a fool that doesn't understand how Bitcoin works nor what irony is yet try to explain it to other people.

Now this is ironic, in that you think you're the smarter man but manage to make yourself look even more foolish

[vokain]

Why is this thread like a magnet for fools/trolls lol...

Sweet irony at last.

It's really one of the best things cognition ever offered us, so beautiful :')

[Elwar]

irony is having 10,000 spoons when all you need is a knife

[threeip]

irony is having 10,000 spoons when all you need is a knife

When the only tool you have is a spoon, every problem starts to look like applesauce.

A bad workman always blames his applesauce

[Razick]

Is stealing from theives really a crime? There have been major crackdowns on Bitcoin by the central banks, why can't there be a crackdown on central banks by Bitcoin?

You aren't just stealing from banks, many of which don't know any better, you are stealing from depositors and anyone who has a vested interest in a bank. Not to mention I reject the concept that all banks are evil, my quarrel is mainly with the Fed.

You didn't say central banks either, you said "banks."

If Bitcoin became nothing but a system to use for theft, I would not use it, and neither would many other people. That's how you let the Fed win.

EDIT: I don't agree with breaking FBI passwords either, and regardless of if you agree with the government (which I don't) the many reasons why should be obvious.

This thread is entirely baseless, Bitcoin is very well thought out, and using it to steal money will not make it better.

[vokain]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152463627235476&set=a.427422470475.216607.67400590475&type=1

[madmadmax]

Is stealing from theives really a crime? There have been major crackdowns on Bitcoin by the central banks, why can't there be a crackdown on central banks by Bitcoin?

You aren't just stealing from banks, many of which don't know any better, you are stealing from depositors and anyone who has a vested interest in a bank. Not to mention I reject the concept that all banks are evil, my quarrel is mainly with the Fed.

You didn't say central banks either, you said "banks."

If Bitcoin became nothing but a system to use for theft, I would not use it, and neither would many other people. That's how you let the Fed win.

EDIT: I don't agree with breaking FBI passwords either, and regardless of if you agree with the government (which I don't) the many reasons why should be obvious.

This thread is entirely baseless, Bitcoin is very well thought out, and using it to steal money will not make it better.

Not necessarily for stealing money or cracking FBI passwords, I was half kidding when writing that. More of a way of giving something back instead of burning cycles for no reason, I understand that manufacturing dollars is probably an even bigger waste of energy but we should aim to be better than dollars, not worse.

[MagicMike523]

This thread is absolutely bizarre.

More of a way of giving something back instead of burning cycles for no reason

How is this guy a senior member? What is going on?

[Cyberdyne]

What is an FBI password?

12345

But if anyone asks, you didn't hear it from me.

[vokain]

the amount of ignorance i have run into recently is astounding. it's almost like i'm back on GameFAQs

[Lethn]

CoD PWNZ0RZ!!!111 H4l0 f04r F4c1ng n00bs!

Edit: Sorry, I had to

[madmadmax]

This thread is absolutely bizarre.

More of a way of giving something back instead of burning cycles for no reason

How is this guy a senior member? What is going on?

Summer, hot weather... Must be harvest time  

You mirin' my buds? Look at dem juicy trichs... That's some dank right there

the amount of ignorance i have run into recently is astounding. it's almost like i'm back on GameFAQs

Please enlighten us, what is so ignorant in particular?

[kjj]

Bitcoin is considered the ultimate tool of the free market, this is the reason it is popular in the cyberpunk, crypto-anarchistic and libertarian counterculture communities. Yet it is completely artificial and arbitrary with most of the values being modified by the selected few that own the bitcoin.org domain, the algorithm that controls the amount of Bitcoins created through time is also completely arbitrary.

I believe I have found the source of the problem.

The proof of work function needs special properties.  So far, the only class of functions that have the properties we need are cryptographic hashes.  Among the few cryptographic hashes available and trusted at the time of release, SHA2-256 provides the best tradeoff between dynamic range and length of output.  Others could have been chosen, and can be chosen in the future, if some pressing need arises.  But don't fool yourself into thinking that there is some function out there that does useful work at the same time.  That would be the holy grail of proof-of-work systems, and lots of people are looking without results.

Then, there are fundamental constants.  These were arbitrary (within a broad range) at the time the system was started.  Why is 600 seconds the goal for the average block time instead of 500 or 700?  Why was the initial subsidy 50 BTC rather than 10 or 100?  No particular reason.  But, once we started using bitcoin, these arbitrary constants stopped being arbitrary.  Now we maintain them because we all agreed to them, and no one has the power to force a change.

And last, there are implementation values.  These are the ones that are, in your words, "being modified by the select few that own the bitcoin.org domain".*  Things like the fee for relay values, etc.  These influence how nodes interact with each other, but don't change the fundamental rules of the system.

Also, there is a fourth class, protocol constants.  These are really a subset of the implementation values, which is why I don't mind putting them after the "last" thing.  These are things that would require wide adoption to work, but don't really change the rules of the game.  For example, If we ever find that 8 places of precision aren't enough, we can make a new transaction version with a wider field and/or a different scaling factor.  This would hard fork old versions off, but wouldn't change the rules of the system.

*  Just for the record, that totally isn't how it works.  The developers can make changes to the software, but they can't make anyone actually use it, so their power to change these values is limited by the public's willingness to accept their changes.  And the software is totally open and free, so any person or group that doesn't like something can fork their own version.

[madmadmax]

Bitcoin is considered the ultimate tool of the free market, this is the reason it is popular in the cyberpunk, crypto-anarchistic and libertarian counterculture communities. Yet it is completely artificial and arbitrary with most of the values being modified by the selected few that own the bitcoin.org domain, the algorithm that controls the amount of Bitcoins created through time is also completely arbitrary.

I believe I have found the source of the problem.

The proof of work function needs special properties.  So far, the only class of functions that have the properties we need are cryptographic hashes.  Among the few cryptographic hashes available and trusted at the time of release, SHA2-256 provides the best tradeoff between dynamic range and length of output.  Others could have been chosen, and can be chosen in the future, if some pressing need arises.  But don't fool yourself into thinking that there is some function out there that does useful work at the same time.  That would be the holy grail of proof-of-work systems, and lots of people are looking without results.

Then, there are fundamental constants.  These were arbitrary (within a broad range) at the time the system was started.  Why is 600 seconds the goal for the average block time instead of 500 or 700?  Why was the initial subsidy 50 BTC rather than 10 or 100?  No particular reason.  But, once we started using bitcoin, these arbitrary constants stopped being arbitrary.  Now we maintain them because we all agreed to them, and no one has the power to force a change.

And last, there are implementation values.  These are the ones that are, in your words, "being modified by the select few that own the bitcoin.org domain".*  Things like the fee for relay values, etc.  These influence how nodes interact with each other, but don't change the fundamental rules of the system.

Also, there is a fourth class, protocol constants.  These are really a subset of the implementation values, which is why I don't mind putting them after the "last" thing.  These are things that would require wide adoption to work, but don't really change the rules of the game.  For example, If we ever find that 8 places of precision aren't enough, we can make a new transaction version with a wider field and/or a different scaling factor.  This would hard fork old versions off, but wouldn't change the rules of the system.

*  Just for the record, that totally isn't how it works.  The developers can make changes to the software, but they can't make anyone actually use it, so their power to change these values is limited by the public's willingness to accept their changes.  And the software is totally open and free, so any person or group that doesn't like something can fork their own version.

It is rather naive to think so, the same kind of nativity is applied to politics where people actually believe that democracy is "fair" because every person has a choice. Gavin could replace the bitcoin-qt client at bitcoin.org overnight and let the stupid masses that don't know squat empower his flawed decision.

[madmadmax]

Bitcoin is considered the ultimate tool of the free market, this is the reason it is popular in the cyberpunk, crypto-anarchistic and libertarian counterculture communities. Yet it is completely artificial and arbitrary with most of the values being modified by the selected few that own the bitcoin.org domain, the algorithm that controls the amount of Bitcoins created through time is also completely arbitrary.

I believe I have found the source of the problem.

The proof of work function needs special properties.  So far, the only class of functions that have the properties we need are cryptographic hashes.  Among the few cryptographic hashes available and trusted at the time of release, SHA2-256 provides the best tradeoff between dynamic range and length of output.  Others could have been chosen, and can be chosen in the future, if some pressing need arises.  But don't fool yourself into thinking that there is some function out there that does useful work at the same time.  That would be the holy grail of proof-of-work systems, and lots of people are looking without results.

Then, there are fundamental constants.  These were arbitrary (within a broad range) at the time the system was started.  Why is 600 seconds the goal for the average block time instead of 500 or 700?  Why was the initial subsidy 50 BTC rather than 10 or 100?  No particular reason.  But, once we started using bitcoin, these arbitrary constants stopped being arbitrary.  Now we maintain them because we all agreed to them, and no one has the power to force a change.

And last, there are implementation values.  These are the ones that are, in your words, "being modified by the select few that own the bitcoin.org domain".*  Things like the fee for relay values, etc.  These influence how nodes interact with each other, but don't change the fundamental rules of the system.

Also, there is a fourth class, protocol constants.  These are really a subset of the implementation values, which is why I don't mind putting them after the "last" thing.  These are things that would require wide adoption to work, but don't really change the rules of the game.  For example, If we ever find that 8 places of precision aren't enough, we can make a new transaction version with a wider field and/or a different scaling factor.  This would hard fork old versions off, but wouldn't change the rules of the system.

*  Just for the record, that totally isn't how it works.  The developers can make changes to the software, but they can't make anyone actually use it, so their power to change these values is limited by the public's willingness to accept their changes.  And the software is totally open and free, so any person or group that doesn't like something can fork their own version.

It is rather naive to think so, the same kind of nativity is applied to politics where people actually believe that democracy is "fair" because every person has a choice. Gavin could replace the bitcoin-qt client at bitcoin.org overnight and let the stupid masses that don't know squat empower his flawed decision.

Tadaa, two years later we are at that precise point, as predicted by me.

Yes we could remain loyal to the 50%< (or more precisely 100%) of the hashing power which what everyone who has half a brain would do but Gavin is Gavin.

[inBitweTrust]

It is rather naive to think so, the same kind of nativity is applied to politics where people actually believe that democracy is "fair" because every person has a choice. Gavin could replace the bitcoin-qt client at bitcoin.org overnight and let the stupid masses that don't know squat empower his flawed decision.

So to you "overnight" is a long drawn out process of debate,tests, and consensus building lasting at least 6 months or longer? \

Interesting....

[R2D221]

You still need to explain how is Gavin's hard fork proposal evil or otherwise not good for us.

[Elwar]

[inBitweTrust]

Necro'ing old threads is fine.



It is the persistence of the lunacy and flaws in reason which concern me.

[madmadmax]

It is rather naive to think so, the same kind of nativity is applied to politics where people actually believe that democracy is "fair" because every person has a choice. Gavin could replace the bitcoin-qt client at bitcoin.org overnight and let the stupid masses that don't know squat empower his flawed decision.

So to you "overnight" is a long drawn out process of debate,tests, and consensus building lasting at least 6 months or longer? \

Interesting....

Not if all parties in set debates are controlled by the USG.

Sybil attacks applied to debates.