The very sad truth about Bitcoin : It might die to gambling

[Elwar]

And again, a full country could have all of their capital in 1 Bitcoin and still be fine.

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Are you saying that other businesses are just breaking even at best?  The point of most businesses is to ... earn wealth?

No. I'm saying that setting up a gambling business is way easier, and much safer, compared to other useful businesses.

There is no way denying sd and jd are racking in A LOT of bitcoins, today.
I'd be -really- interested in a list of BTC businesses that can match their volumes.

I'm not defending gambling, simply pointing out that as businesses go, gambling is unexceptional, at least qualitatively.  They all try to make the most money while risking the least.  Online gambling sites have expenses too.

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...
Let me try again:
1 - Bitcoins have a limited supply
2 - Gambling sites are globally earning more bitcoins than they have to spend to keep their business on
3 - Gambling sites will end up owning a lot of bitcoins, if we don't prevent this

The same thing is happening with fiat today.
Or can you just give me an example of government lottery which has a negative result ?

1.  Bitcoins are a limited supply.
2. Gambling sites All successful businesses are globally earning more bitcoins than they have to spend to keep their business on.
3.  Gambling sites All successful businesses will end up owning a lot of bitcoins, if we don't prevent this.
 

4. That's how business works, and it is a good thing.

Err... Yep, that's my point exactly.

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And again, a full country could have all of their capital in 1 Bitcoin and still be fine.

As long as it's fine with being *bought* for one bitcoin

[Elwar]

And again, a full country could have all of their capital in 1 Bitcoin and still be fine.

As long as it's fine with being *bought* for one bitcoin

Just like how the US is fine with being *bought* for 18 trillion dollars?

Where does buying a country come into play?

[crumbs]

And again, a full country could have all of their capital in 1 Bitcoin and still be fine.

As long as it's fine with being *bought* for one bitcoin

Just like how the US is fine with being *bought* for 18 trillion dollars?

Where does buying a country come into play?

That amount of currency does not exist outside of US.  To make things simple, let me point out that when a country's entire currency consists of a single bitcoin, and i have *two* bitcoins, that country shouldn't be traded with

Edit:  You do understand that i could toss that country's economy into a tailspin by simply showing them my two bitcoins *exist,* right? 

[Littleshop]

The more uses of Bitcoin and the more Bitcoins moving the more valuable they become.  If online poker was allowed in the USA and Bitcoin was used for half the transactions it would probably double Bitcoins current market cap. 

[justusranvier]

This is the third "Bitcoin is doomed" story I've seen today.

I think some people just want to buy in cheaper.

[Razick]

...
Let me try again:
1 - Bitcoins have a limited supply
2 - Gambling sites are globally earning more bitcoins than they have to spend to keep their business on
3 - Gambling sites will end up owning a lot of bitcoins, if we don't prevent this

The same thing is happening with fiat today.
Or can you just give me an example of government lottery which has a negative result ?

1.  Bitcoins are a limited supply.
2. Gambling sites All successful businesses are globally earning more bitcoins than they have to spend to keep their business on.
3.  Gambling sites All successful businesses will end up owning a lot of bitcoins, if we don't prevent this.
 

4. That's how business works, and it is a good thing.

Err... Yep, that's my point exactly.

I thought so, my reply was mainly for the Op.

[Razick]

And again, a full country could have all of their capital in 1 Bitcoin and still be fine.

As long as it's fine with being *bought* for one bitcoin

Just like how the US is fine with being *bought* for 18 trillion dollars?

Where does buying a country come into play?

That amount of currency does not exist outside of US.  To make things simple, let me point out that when a country's entire currency consists of a single bitcoin, and i have *two* bitcoins, that country shouldn't be traded with

Edit:  You do understand that i could toss that country's economy into a tailspin by simply showing them my two bitcoins *exist,* right? 

Perhaps, but that's assuming that you are extremely strange, and don't just spend your 2 BTC when they are worth $1,000,000,000 each, which they would be before that point.

Also, while the inflation would be tragic... I don't think the effect would be as bad as you think: the U.S. has quadrupled the money supply since 2,000. You could also use it in a way where there would be at least short term benefits.

[crumbs]

And again, a full country could have all of their capital in 1 Bitcoin and still be fine.

As long as it's fine with being *bought* for one bitcoin

Just like how the US is fine with being *bought* for 18 trillion dollars?

Where does buying a country come into play?

That amount of currency does not exist outside of US.  To make things simple, let me point out that when a country's entire currency consists of a single bitcoin, and i have *two* bitcoins, that country shouldn't be traded with

Edit:  You do understand that i could toss that country's economy into a tailspin by simply showing them my two bitcoins *exist,* right?  

Perhaps, but that's assuming that you are extremely strange, and don't just spend your 2 BTC when they are worth $1,000,000,000 each, which they would be before that point.

Also, while the inflation would be tragic... I don't think the effect would be as bad as you think: the U.S. has quadrupled the money supply since 2,000. You could also use it in a way where there would be at least short term benefits.

I should have been clearer:  The post i was responding to suggested that a single bitcoin would suffice as the sum total of a country's currency (presumably because one bitcoin is divisible enough for everyone to trade in fractions).  I tried to point out that it would be impossible for the simple reason that there's another 10+ million BTC, just like the one used by the unfortunate country, out in the wild.  If that country valued that single bitcoin at, let's say, $200 billion (the printed total of fiat the country swapped for the bitcoin), then the other bitcoins would also be valued the same ($200 billion *each*).  This, you must agree, is nonsense, unless 1 bitcoin was worth that much to begin with.  

As things stand right now, with 1BTC = $105 (had to look up at the tab), trying to convert *a single country's* monetary system to use *a single bitcoin* is functionally equivalent to reducing all the fiat within that country to $105, while the rest of the world is still flooded with dollars.  Something like that.  

[BittBurger]

I can assuage your

Can someone assauge me please?

-Burger-

[Stephen Gornick]

Bitcoin will end up being held by gambling businesses.

And then?

[johnyj]

Actually the gambling enterprises are hiring lots of people now, due to that most of rich people have nothing to do but gambling, that is a very profitable business in today's system where a few people holds lots of wealth but have no good way to consume them

[Elwar]

And again, a full country could have all of their capital in 1 Bitcoin and still be fine.

As long as it's fine with being *bought* for one bitcoin

Just like how the US is fine with being *bought* for 18 trillion dollars?

Where does buying a country come into play?

That amount of currency does not exist outside of US.  To make things simple, let me point out that when a country's entire currency consists of a single bitcoin, and i have *two* bitcoins, that country shouldn't be traded with

Edit:  You do understand that i could toss that country's economy into a tailspin by simply showing them my two bitcoins *exist,* right?  

Perhaps, but that's assuming that you are extremely strange, and don't just spend your 2 BTC when they are worth $1,000,000,000 each, which they would be before that point.

Also, while the inflation would be tragic... I don't think the effect would be as bad as you think: the U.S. has quadrupled the money supply since 2,000. You could also use it in a way where there would be at least short term benefits.

I should have been clearer:  The post i was responding to suggested that a single bitcoin would suffice as the sum total of a country's currency (presumably because one bitcoin is divisible enough for everyone to trade in fractions).  I tried to point out that it would be impossible for the simple reason that there's another 10+ million BTC, just like the one used by the unfortunate country, out in the wild.  If that country valued that single bitcoin at, let's say, $200 billion (the printed total of fiat the country swapped for the bitcoin), then the other bitcoins would also be valued the same ($200 billion *each*).  This, you must agree, is nonsense, unless 1 bitcoin was worth that much to begin with.  

As things stand right now, with 1BTC = $105 (had to look up at the tab), trying to convert *a single country's* monetary system to use *a single bitcoin* is functionally equivalent to reducing all the fiat within that country to $105, while the rest of the world is still flooded with dollars.  Something like that.  

It is a simple explaination to those who believe that hoarders will cause the end of Bitcoin ("It might die to gambling"). They speak as if there will not be enough bitcoins left over because of all of the hoarders.

But one does not need millions in circulation as the 1 BTC for a country's economy highlights.

And by saying that one would simply just cash out your hoarded bitcoins if it reaches that high of a price kills the whole hoarding killing Bitcoin argument.

[crumbs]

...I should have been clearer:  The post i was responding to suggested that a single bitcoin would suffice as the sum total of a country's currency (presumably because one bitcoin is divisible enough for everyone to trade in fractions).  I tried to point out that it would be impossible for the simple reason that there's another 10+ million BTC, just like the one used by the unfortunate country, out in the wild.  If that country valued that single bitcoin at, let's say, $200 billion (the printed total of fiat the country swapped for the bitcoin), then the other bitcoins would also be valued the same ($200 billion *each*).  This, you must agree, is nonsense, unless 1 bitcoin was worth that much to begin with.  

As things stand right now, with 1BTC = $105 (had to look up at the tab), trying to convert *a single country's* monetary system to use *a single bitcoin* is functionally equivalent to reducing all the fiat within that country to $105, while the rest of the world is still flooded with dollars.  Something like that.  

It is a simple explaination to those who believe that hoarders will cause the end of Bitcoin ("It might die to gambling"). They speak as if there will not be enough bitcoins left over because of all of the hoarders.

But one does not need millions in circulation as the 1 BTC for a country's economy highlights.

And by saying that one would simply just cash out your hoarded bitcoins if it reaches that high of a price kills the whole hoarding killing Bitcoin argument.

Stop it.  The only thing the "1 BTC for a country economy" argument highlights is the fact that it's an absurd argument.  Unless that country's economy is worth just $105 at today's rates.  Reread my reply.  

If that's still not clear, i'll use your example: "Just like how the US is fine with being *bought* for 18 trillion dollars?"

1.  Imagine that trillion dollars being swapped for a single bitcoin.
2.  Now that bitcoin is worth 18 trillion dollars, according to you.
3.  There are other bitcoins in the world, more than 10 million of them, each one is now worth 18 billion dollars?  
4.  ? ? ?  Why not?


Edit:  The fundamental problem that exists for a country wishing to adopt bitcoin is the very problem i've outlined above.  It's theoretically impossible for a country to adopt a currency like bitcoin *unless its extant value is substantially higher than the value of fiat it must replace.*  Even when the country is willing to do everything short of collapsing its economy to do so. 

[HeRetiK]

For all we know gambling could actually be one of the factors pushing Bitcoin. Like porn pushed the VCR and silk road pushed... well, Bitcoin.

[WinVery.com]

Blather

[Kouye]

And then?

Really ? I won't feed you, sorry. Try another thread.

@all, I am just concerned by the following observations:

- Gambling has become trivial using bitcoins, compared to what it used to be with fiat
- Gambling addicts are all over - Just check the reports on currently operating gambling sites
- Gambling operating sites, as a whole, gain wealth over time, at a faster pace than any other business

I will let this get buried, for now, but I really hope I won't have to bump it when gambling services own 50% of the bitcoins.
Just quit gambling, for your own sake.

[01BTC10]

Only in the US (mostly) it's hard to gamble online with fiat. Here in Canada it's trivial and in Europe too. It's not like everyone is going to gamble all what they have because they can... Compulsive gamblers are a minority like alcoholics.