2013-08-04 WSJ: Famed Trader Joe Lewis Backs Bitcoin (hoax)

[prophetx]

Not good that a big-time thief like this guy is getting involved with mining. Mining is the way to control Bitcoin. Once you control the mining operation, you can do anything with Bitcoin you want. It not longer is beholden to limited supply or anything. They know this. Once the masses jump into Bitcoin and these mega douches control everything Bitcoin is over, it will be just another exploited currency. The problem is that we are still in their system of monetary control - i.e., they can buy up anything they want and that includes Bitcoin. The only time to strike is is when their system has collapsed.

Please learn how bitcoin works first

+1

I don't see why the merchants, users & other miners should care too much if some massive miner starts building a chain of blocks with some other ruleset.  

It won't be one miner, its going to be most of the network. We are the minority, the mindless masses are the majority. They aren't going to care about your forked network, they just want the one that they are told they are allowed to use. "We" are going to be the "chain of block with some other ruleset" if you let these criminals into the mining operation.

Are you trying to imply there are not already many criminals involved in mining operations?  Seems like the kettle calling the teapot black to me.

Get over it, and stop trying to compare who has the bigger d**k in the room.  This guy helped collapse GBP, he is a hero in my book.

[1714912710]

1714912710

[1714912710]

1714912710

[1714912710]

1714912710

[prophetx]

Let's just take it for gospel that Avalon is getting $200M in VC to compete with BFL which is at best a $30-$40M GROSS sale company.

Do you realize that sales would have to be in the billions for a VC to even see the return of their principal, let alone profit/interest?

The only thing that would make since is if there's one or two too many zeros in that $200M figure.

Therefore, I see only two possibilities: Somebody fucked up the research or Bitcoin's being played.

There is more uses for ASIC dev then just processing for the bitcoin network...

[Gabi]

Do you really trust journalists? Seriously? LOL

No way the WSJ would publish a story like this without checking everything out.

Yeah sure, and you expect me to believe you? Lol

[lunarboy]

I agree this looks fishy. Why would anybody put 200M into mining?

OP has answered your question

'You mean I can't just buy Bitcoin?'  

I had lots of "chats" with monied folks from Switherland along the lines of "we have lots of dosh we want to buy 22 million bitcoins now". Eventually they realize that they will have to fight for the remaining 10 millions or force the price into 5 digit area prematurely.

Large scale investment into mining is a way to buy bitcoins without showing your hand and starting another "bubble". It was exactly like that in early 2011 and at any other time so far. There is nothing new, just all the numbers now have more zeroes. As time goes by, there will be even more zeroes added to those numbers.

Finally some sense.

reading this thread has been painful.

[cr1776]

Part of the 200 million also includes TSMC. That is a bit into the article itself, so it is not all for Avalon.   A few other points:

1. They specifically discuss getting "more parties are involved in the mining process" also.
2. "Mr. Lewis didn't respond to a request for comment."
3. "As part of the deal, Avalon will gain access to TSMC microchips based on 20-nanometer processes, which are much faster than other chips. "

... The Phoenix deal will also involve Taiwanese microchip maker Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co., 2330.TW 0.00% which is set to supply the state-of-the-art microchips that will power the hardware.

The Phoenix Fund was set up this year to invest in bitcoin mining-hardware companies. It looked at several of Avalon's rivals in the sector, including Butterfly Labs and KnCMiner but decided against investing, according to a person familiar with the private-equity firm's strategy.

Investors in the Phoenix Fund, which includes a small number of individuals who made their fortunes in currency trading, believe that the currency will become more stable and popular if more parties are involved in the mining process, this person said.
...

The bitcoin deal was put together by Andrew Laurus, a former government-bonds salesman at Lehman Brothers who is also an investor in the fund. Avalon was set up by Yifu Guo, a pioneer in the bitcoin-mining industry.... Mr. Guo couldn't be reached for comment.

[Carlton Banks]

Also, R+D and manufacturing infrastructure aren't the only thing you can buy with $200 million. Employees, advertising/promotion, flashy Headquarters etc come to mind, there's doubtless many more.

[marcus_of_augustus]

fool, why not buy bitcoins directly?

... probably couldn't be assed going through the whole Gox KYC/AML rectal examination. 

Go Joe the miner I say!

(might be 20 not 200 (?)mill though at this stage of the game)

[johnyj]

I'm considering research for a quantum mining chip design in the next 5 years

[canth]

https://twitter.com/ScottWapnerCNBC/status/364370798892421120

'Spoke to Joe Lewis this morning who says of reported Bitcoin investment: "Completely Untrue".  Tells me he's "Never heard of Phoenix Fund" '

For everyone that sold out last night...waaa waaa.

[prophetx]

https://twitter.com/ScottWapnerCNBC/status/364370798892421120

'Spoke to Joe Lewis this morning who says of reported Bitcoin investment: "Completely Untrue".  Tells me he's "Never heard of Phoenix Fund" '

For everyone that sold out last night...waaa waaa.

lol well as everyone probably already knew... the WSJ is trash since Murdoch bought it...

[Vigil]

Had only I snagged prices much lower than I did and made tons of profit.

[vokain]

Either way, false or not, this should bring very interesting discussion to the table for monied people as to what is possible. There is a very serious first-mover advantage for the first big group investing in bitcoin that takes it seriously.

[lunarboy]

not sure if this rumour is any truer than the other stuff but i'll leave this here.

https://twitter.com/ScottWapnerCNBC/statuses/364370798892421120

Twitter / ScottWapner, CNBC:

"Spoke to Joe Lewis this morning who says of reported Bitcoin investment: 'Completely Untrue'. Tells me he's 'Never heard of Phoenix Fund'"

its a bit like watching goldfish swim round and round in a bowl.

[vokain]

In light of that, I do agree that it is very unlikely now, and more importantly, any faith in the press (and high academia for that matter) i had left is now kaput.

[Arogo]

Not sure if anybody has mentioned this bit from the bottom of the 'efinancialnews' article:

Visit the Phoenix Fund website here: http://www.phoenixasic.com/

It has the same site design as: http://www.joelewis-trading.com/index.php but different head office address... Strange?

[aigeezer]

Not sure if anybody has mentioned this bit from the bottom of the 'efinancialnews' article:

Visit the Phoenix Fund website here: http://www.phoenixasic.com/

It has the same site design as: http://www.joelewis-trading.com/index.php but different head office address... Strange?

Even the embedded reference to joelouis-golf.com near the end of the source code.

[n8rwJeTt8TrrLKPa55eU]

Not sure if anybody has mentioned this bit from the bottom of the 'efinancialnews' article:

Visit the Phoenix Fund website here: http://www.phoenixasic.com/

It has the same site design as: http://www.joelewis-trading.com/index.php but different head office address... Strange?

Curioser and curioser.

Maybe the WSJ people, unable to contact any of the principals, saw the similarity and took it as an implicit validation of the story?

[greyhawk]

Not sure if anybody has mentioned this bit from the bottom of the 'efinancialnews' article:

Visit the Phoenix Fund website here: http://www.phoenixasic.com/

Set up 3 days ago, hiding behind a proxy registrar. IP points to a Road Runner Residential cable modem in the Southwest US.

This is a scam if I've ever seen one.

[Gabi]

Do you really trust journalists? Seriously? LOL

No way the WSJ would publish a story like this without checking everything out.

Yeah sure, and you expect me to believe you? Lol

I have to quote myself. Lol for "checking everything out".

One more reason to NOT trust WSJ and journalists 

[Ytterbium]

I'm still doubtful that the WSJ would fuck up like this, but on the other hand $200m seems absurd.

Here's a theory though: maybe the $200m is an investment in TSMCs 20nm process. As a small part of the deal they'll work on a 20nm mining chip for Avalon and use it as a sort of test chip, boosting the profit on the R&D. Then, maybe Lewis gets a cut of the revenue from said 20nm process.   Most of the money wouldn't be for bitcoin chips, it would just be for fab R&D, and most of the profits would just come from regular fab work, not bitcoin miners.

Or, maybe Joe Lewis only bought into a small part of $200m that TSMC is planning to spend on R&D, and the larger number go reported.

I think though the $200m figure is way off, although it seems likely there was some kind of deal if this is all being reported.  The WSJ wouldn't just go off internet rumors - they would have had to have been actively conned by someone for this to run if it's completely false.

not sure if this rumour is any truer than the other stuff but i'll leave this here.

https://twitter.com/ScottWapnerCNBC/statuses/364370798892421120

Twitter / ScottWapner, CNBC:

"Spoke to Joe Lewis this morning who says of reported Bitcoin investment: 'Completely Untrue'. Tells me he's 'Never heard of Phoenix Fund'"

its a bit like watching goldfish swim round and round in a bowl.

That doesn't really mean all that much, though. It could be like all the "I'm not running for president" type statements. If the story is false it would be a big black eye for the WSJ.  I'm sure they're looking into it in more depth right now.